should i upgrade my brakes?????

i am in the process of doing extensive work to my 98 1.8t manual trans. 
now i have about 112 k on the car and my brakes need to be changed no biggie just the pads and maybe do some rotor work!! my question is i am putting an intake, turbo back, dv, and chipping it. also getting a new stage 2 clutch i wont be over 260 bhp for a while until i go bt with next years tax return :) should i invest in the stock brakes or go with bigger brakes already and save the hassle of doing it when i go bt????
 
and as i put my stage 2 clutch should i do anything to my drive shaft to prevent damage to it as i enjoy my clutch LOL
 
thanks

i would get a bbk if you can. there is a group buy of a bbk a few post down. jump on that, its a good deal and will be enough to stop you.

If you're doing a BT upgrade, you need to have a bbk. No beating around the bush; invest in the thread below, like Jeff mentioned. 

a8 fronts and s4 rears are the cheapest bbk but you'll be using the stock calipers. you want a full bbk kit, expect to pay quite a lot


and you wont be close to 260bhp with stock turbo. with those mods you listed you'll be ~215bhp

your right i meant 260 lb of torque, wich is probably still wrong but that is my estimate taking in mind that just the chip gets me to 215 lb torque and 205 hp so yea......

anybody has any input on the drive shaft question?
dont wanna blow my joints cuz im having too much fun with my clutch!!!!!

... how do you expect to hit 260tq?

Because you can easily make 260tq with a chip, mbc, and other bolt ons

Oh. I was under the impression it would take some more work than just bolt-ons to hit that.

like i said just the chip gets me to 205hp and 215tq putting together the intake, turbo back, dv, clutch and other upgrades small you can easily hit that mark

most ko3 dynos i see for fwd cars are 200whp and 230wtq.  That is deff more than 260tq. 

so i guess the bbk upgrade is a no brainer then definetly doing it!!!!!!!!


any input on my other question?

you will be fine.

quote:

200whp

quote:

ORIGINAL: ricky0323

so i guess the bbk upgrade is a no brainer then definetly doing it!!!!!!!!


any input on my other question?

I have some input, don't get a bbk unless you're going to upgrade your rear callipers and rotors.

Upgrading just the front calipers will screw up the brake balance (the front will clamp way harder than the rear) and wont improve your braking distance. Change the fluid, get some nice pads, and go with an A8 upgrade up front.

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Tires stop a car, not brakes. Even if that's a broad statement, full of caveats and qualifiers, it contains a crucial truth. All things being equal, stopping distance is stipulated by how much grip the tires have before they're finally overcome by braking torque, resulting in wheel lock. For those with ABS, the surest and simplest way to reduce dead-stop braking distance is a simple matter of stickier tires.

quote:

In order to maximize stopping performance, each tire should be just near its limits of grip in deceleration. Most cars off the showroom floor have a front-biased brake system, which is much safer for the average driver in a panicked braking situation-more rear bias at the limits of grip will cause the car's tail to get loose, even in a straight line. Not a good thing when braking and turning at the same time, unless you're doing it deliberately on a track.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0710_sccp_point_brake_tech/index.html

Unless you're going to be tracking your car and need the defense against heatsoak, you're just wasting your money on a BBK. If you can activate your abs (or lock up your tires), then you need stickier tires, NOT a bbk.

Also the stock A4 drivetrain can handle 650+awhp launches, you'll be fine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyropenguin


I have some input, don't get a bbk unless you're going to upgrade your rear callipers and rotors.

Upgrading just the front calipers will screw up the brake balance (the front will clamp way harder than the rear) and wont improve your braking distance. Change the fluid, get some nice pads, and go with an A8 upgrade up front.

 
Yeah, i have to totally disagree here.  The front already does the majority of the braking.  Increasing it will improve braking and do nothing to harm braking bias.  Speaking from experience, not guessing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cincyTT
Yeah, i have to totally disagree here.  The front already does the majority of the braking.  Increasing it will improve braking and do nothing to harm braking bias.  Speaking from experience, not guessing.

I'm not calling you out here, but just for my curiosity, what experience do you have with big brake kits? Have you tested the stopping distance of a stock setup vs. just front bbk? Have you tracked an A4 with stock brakes and again with a bbk in just the front? Sport compact car and Stoptech both say you're wrong.

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As braking force is continuously increased, one end of the car must eventually break traction. If the front wheels lock up and turn into little piles of molten rubber first we say that the car is “front biased”, as the front tires are the limiting factor for deceleration. In the not-so-desirable situation where the rear tires are the first to lock we say that the car is “rear biased”, but the driver would probably have a few more choice adjectives to add. In either case, however, one end of the car has given up before the other, limiting the ultimate deceleration capability of the car. Just like the car that pushes its way through corners all day long, a car which is heavily front biased will be slow and frustrating, but relatively easy and benign to drive. On the other hand, like the oversteer monster that people are afraid to even drive around the paddock, a car which is severely rear biased will be a scary, twitchy ride resulting in a bad case of the white-knuckle syndrome. Envision an imaginary co-pilot yanking up on the park brake handle in the middle of every corner, and you begin to get the idea. While a rush to drive at speed, it will be horribly slow on the stopwatch. The car with perfectly balanced brake bias will, however, be the last one to hit the brakes going down the back straight. By distributing the braking forces so that all four tires are simultaneously generating their maximum deceleration, stopping distance will be minimized and our hero will quickly find his way to victory lane. Just like neutral handling, balanced brake bias is our ticket to lower lap times. All that said, once the braking system has achieved its perfect balance, it is still up to the tires to generate the braking forces. It’s still the tires that are stopping the car, but a poorly designed braking system can lengthen stopping distances significantly, expensive sticky tires or not.

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So, what have we learned? As Figure 7 illustrates, every car has a “sweet spot” for brake bias which will generate the shortest stopping distances possible. Typically, the auto manufacturers design their cars to be 5% to 10% more front-biased than optimum for maximum deceleration, but they provide enhanced brake stability in return. Not a bad trade-off for the public at large, and not necessarily a bad place for a race car in the heat of battle either.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandperformance.shtml
With 5-10% front bias stock, a bbk is only creating more of a front bias. The car will be safer (rear end is less likely to lock up) but the overall stopping distance is probably not going to be decreased, because the front tires will be at their traction limit well before the rears are able to fully utilize their traction. The rear end DOES help, if you're riding a bike you can't just crank the front brake all the way down for the quickest stop (if you lean back enough you can do this without going over the bars), it's a balance of front and rear pressure.

I stand by my statement that if you're trying to fight heatsoak and get a better pedal feel, a bbk will help, but for stopping in the shortest distance possible only a front bbk is not the best choice.

This is how i know
 

 
You are not increasing the bias as badly as you or the mags are making it seem.  You would have to make it a heavy majority one way over the other.  If the rear is to big, the rear will come around the front.  You really cant go wrong with bigger fronts unless you make them like 15" and 7" rotors.  The brakes people are talking about here are going to the same size as a stock TT.  Thats both front and REAR. 
 
I did not actually test the stopping distance, but you can more the tell the differnce.  I would easily say that it was a good deal shorter 60-0 than stock.  Atleast 15ft.
 
As for heatsoak, increasing size does very little for that.  Its all stopping distance (law of levers).  If you want cooler brakes, you need rotors like me.  2 peice are cool to the touch 5 mins after a hard run where 1 peice will burn your finger even after 15mins.

Wait a second, you guys are talking about the A8 rotor upgrade as the BBK?

I thought you meant an actual bbk from stoptech/brembo/alcon. hahahah, I even said in my first post he should do that upgrade...

Anyways, you have wilwoods on your TT? I've never seen anybody run those on their A4, how do you like them?

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyropenguin

Wait a second, you guys are talking about the A8 rotor upgrade as the BBK?

I thought you meant an actual bbk from stoptech/brembo/alcon. hahahah, I even said in my first post he should do that upgrade...

Anyways, you have wilwoods on your TT? I've never seen anybody run those on their A4, how do you like them?

 
They are great.  Only reasonably priced BBK with a 2 peice rotor and plain face.  Its a DD so i dont want slots or xdrilled since it would increase stopping distance and thats not what i want. 
 
BTW, the stg2 kit is 12.1" and stg 3 kit is 12.6" from ecs.  The stock TT brakes are 12.3".  Do you still consider them BBK?

Alcon's bbks are  13" and 14", stoptech's is 14", and the stock size is 11.3" inches... I don't count it as a BBK, I'd say it's a MBK!

Does wilwood make a kit for the A4? How much does that setup run you? TT's are 5x100 bolt pattern, so that kit (rotor) wouldn't bolt on to the A4... right?

12.x" is more than enough for a street car when coupled with a nice set of pad and 4 piston caliper.
 
Wilwood doesnt have a kit for the A4.  Just for the Mkiv and TT.  My kit was $800 with lines and everything and then i sold my stocks for over $200.  So i spent just over $600 for everything.

The stock tt brakes are a 4 piston caliper? Or were you talking about the wilwood kits? Yeah I consider the wilwood setup a bbk, but stock single piston calipers on 12.3" one piece rotors is hard to justify as a bbk.

Stock TT brakes are 12.3" rotors and single calipers.  My wilwoods are 4 pistons.  The TT upgrade is more than enough for most people.  Its deff better than stock.

if you are running the bbk with a8's and tt carriers, could you get the wildwood 4 pistons on/in there?


i know there are kits, there is a guy on zine running upgraded stuff, but it looks to be alot mroe hightech than what i wanna do....

something simple like that is fine

If the B5 are like the B5.5 passat calipers, no, they wont.  They are pretty differnt.  Its to bad the ecstuning rotors are expensive as hell, they would be a well worth the extra money to have a 2 peice rotor.