Stay with the K04?

OK, my K04 was approved for warranty replacement BUT none are available so i am getting a credit.   

I just put a new 3" Thermal exhaust and a high flow cat on it which i haven't even heard yet since i don't have the turbo so if i did step up to a larger turbo is would be one of the elim series so that i can still use my stock manifold and the new high flow cat i bought (K03/K04 flange on the cat).  I know i need a FMIC, i should have one for the K04 but have not had the funds yet for it.  I have a couple questions:

1. I have a TIP tranny, would the elim turbos be pushing it's limits?   this worries me.

2. i am currently running 386cc (TT225) injectors, are these large enough or will i need to go to 440cc?

3. currently i have APR Stage 2+ (K04/injector/exhaust) programming.   i am assuming i would not be abel to use this and would require some custom programming somewhere?

4. reliability, allot of references to the elim turbos not being reliable but i was not able to find any cases of one failing.  is this really an issue or is it more of a rumor?

so do i take my credit and look into a larger turbo or stick with the K04?    I could prob squeeze another $200 if i went with a bigger turbo but if more modifications were necessary it would be out of the question right now.

Thanks guys!
~Phil

.

Tq is the main killer of the tip tranny, the K04 is going to have a higher tq spike that would put more stress on the trans then a larger turbo that comes on slower so that there isn't such a quick tq spike.
 
 
The REVO GTRS tuning runs 550cc injectors and a 3" maf, so you would have to upgrade to the larger 550cc injectors if you went with the REVO tune.
 
 
 
With the GTRS you will need a good size fmic.

I was assuming the GTRS woudl be the way to go if i did deside to go bigger.   
So with what i have, currently to make the GTRS work i woudl need:

REVO programming
550cc EFIs
3" MAF
FMIC

I am getting $750 back as a warranty replacement since they don't have the turbo in stock (what i paid before they were hard to find).    That being the case the GTRS upgrade is a little out of my budget right now and i really want to get the girl back on the road since the Golf III i am driving right now isn't registered or inspected :P   With time an issue and the finances not available for the GTRS upgrade my next choice is going to be to find a K04 core (i wish i hadn't sold mine now) and have G-POP Shop rebuild it with larger internals, if i can find a dead one for $100ish i can be in my price range, if that doesn't work i might just have to with a G-POP K03/K04 hybrid since that is all that seems to be available right now.     I would have enough to do a FMIC also if i went with the K03/K04 Hybrid (K03 housing with K04 internals, exhaust side turbine is 5mm smaller then a real K04 but they clam K04 performance and i have seen allot of happy people on here that run them).

Anyone have a dead K04 they want to get out of their garage?

i am not going to go the GTRS route but i did find a post that clams the eilm series will not fit on a 6 speed or an auto.   anyone heard of this?  just wondering.

"There are NO Eliminators for FWD Tiptronic/Automatic cars."  (maybe he means FWD WITH Tip rather then FWD AND Tip *Widgget)
"I believe there are things in the way on the auto/tip cars that prevent the turbos from fitting at all."   (just his opinion?  this is the first i have heard of this *Widgget)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3595370

the hunt for a dead k04 continues.......

quote:

ORIGINAL: widgget

i am not going to go the GTRS route but i did find a post that clams the eilm series will not fit on a 6 speed or an auto.   anyone heard of this?  just wondering.

"There are NO Eliminators for FWD Tiptronic/Automatic cars."  (maybe he means FWD WITH Tip rather then FWD AND Tip *Widgget)
"I believe there are things in the way on the auto/tip cars that prevent the turbos from fitting at all."   (just his opinion?  this is the first i have heard of this *Widgget)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3595370

the hunt for a dead k04 continues.......

99% of that info is for transverse 1.8t's. Only real info on that thread for an Audi A4 is "There is only a GT2x, GTRS and GT2871 for B-Chassis cars (Passat and A4)". Everything else is for the transverse VW/AUDI cars. I dont see any reason why the elim will not fit a FWD  A4 1.8t seeing that the fwd/quattro tranny is the nearly exactly the same and the tip tranny is just shaped different but is not going to get in the way of the elim being bolted to the manifold.
 

BTW if you haven't noticed, every person that posted on that thread drives a transvers. Nearly everyone that posts in the 1.8t engine forum on vortex owns a transverse, so thats what most of the info you will find on that site will be based on.

why'd you get a k04 in the first place? its only giving you a slightly better tq curve and a few extra hp

thanks for clarifying that. 

I originally went K04 because my K03 was on it's was out when i bought the car and i found a used K04 here on the forums for a good price so that is just the way it ended up going.  Also i was scared of over doing it with the tiptronic tranny and felt the K04 would be a safe option but like a Mike mentioned, it's the TQ that kills the tiptronic and i would be putting less stress on it if i went with a turbo that didn't spike the TQ as high.    At the time it it got me back on the road with minimal cost and more power at the same time.

From my experience the performance increase from stage 1+ (chipped/EFIs) to the K04 (i think stage 2+ is what apr calls the programming) was about the same as the increase from stock to stage 1+, maybe a little less but close.  I don't have number to back this up just my own opinion, so i don't feel like it was a waste, but i am sure there are better options.  

My budget is $1000 and even a used GTRS kit is about $1300 without the software, EFIs, and FMIC, i'm looking at at least $2000 to pull this off which isn't happening right now.  Even if i sold my ECU with the TT225 EFIs, and the APR TIP (brand new), i won't be close enough.    Don't get me wrong, i would love to get more power of of her but i need to stay within this budget and right now the beefed up K04 is looking like the best option, assuming i can find one to be modified.    If any of you have ideas i would love to hear them.

oh well that makes sense. i don't know if it's works on b6's, but with b5's you can run a gt2x off of a tweaked k04 file. Mike should be able to confirm/deny this

You could go with the GTRS, run it lower boost which will allow you to use the stock SMIC and still make the same power as a K04. This way you can upgrade the fmic later and then turn up the boost to make more power.
 
 
APR claims 247hp/286tq at the crank for their K04 B6 kit. The GTRS elim kits make more hp at the wheels.
 
 
Yes you could run the Elim off a K04, but I wouldn't suggest doing that since the tune is designed for a turbo that spools up much quicker so the target AFR's will be slightly off. This will keep you from getting the most out of the Elim setup.

GTRS elim should be better for your tranny. but i cant imagine running anything above stage 1 without a FMIC, with just 1+ i hit 175 IATs when ambient was 70

Well a larger turbo will produce lower IAT's and even more so if he runs around 1 bar of boost out of a elim. The K03/K04 really produce high IAT's because they are being ran out of their effiency map.

Mike, you said:
"Yes you could run the Elim off a K04, but I wouldn't suggest doing that since the tune is designed for a turbo that spools up much quicker so the target AFR's will be slightly off. This will keep you from getting the most out of the Elim setup."

If instilling the GTRS Eilm AND FMIC without any additional upgrades will be close to or slightly above the K04 without any damage to the engine or turbo i would rather just do that now and then upgrade the manifold, intake, and software later this summer.     my concern is damaging something, if the only disadvantage is going to be that i am not getting the most out of the turbo then this is without a doubt a route i would reconsider.      Would my A/F R be lean or rich?     i don't want to burn up the engine or foul my 02 sensors up.

Again, i would LOVE to go to a bigger turbo but i just don't have the $1900-$2700 for a full GTRS kit right now.    If i can find just the hardware kit for just over a grand i should be able to pull that off.

$1399- for the hardware kit is the best price i have found yet.
so with my credit on the K04 i could pick this up for $650.    might have to wait until june if i'm going grab this.

http://www.supremepowerparts.com/products/prod_details.aspx?prod_id=5717

but i woudnt' be apposed to getting a used one with low miles ether i guess, just don't want to endup with a half dead turbo only to save $200.

Well the 2001+ cars are all tuned by using a target AFR, if you run a larger turbo on the K03/K04 tune the target AFR is going to get richer quicker then the turbo spools up. This will cause the turbo to spool up slower and decrease power because the car will be running richer then it should as the turbo is spooling up.

Best I could do on the GTRS Elim hardware kit is $1450 + shipping. I do have a package setup(GTRS, 550cc injectors and revo tune) but thats still around $2469+shipping.

Awesome, thanks Mike (chaos and papa also of course, kinda supprised cincytt didn't join in).

So aside from fouling my plugs and o2 sensors i don't have to worry about any damage to the engine running a GTRS right?    

looks like GTRS is in the near future for me :)  i love upgrades!

BTW there is a guy on AZ that posts about his B6 1.8tq TIP that has a GTRS elim kit on that car.
 
 
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2492879&postcount=19