To build or not to Build?

EDIT****
OK,
          I've revised my original post after some further searching and reading, and understand the concensus is that a s4 swap into anything other than an s4 is a complete waste of money and time (also the topic is beat  beat beat...). So here's my situation:
          I bought a 96 a4 for a song and a dance. It's now got over 180k miles, and the car is in beautiful condition. the previous owner was working towards autoxing the car, and began to build it, but didn't get past the suspension. The car has quite a bit of money put into the suspension, and it handles AMAZING. Lowered, swaybars, bilsteins, tower bars; it's great. I am looking to complete the project, but the biggest shortcoming is the 12v powerplant. 
          This is a weekend fun car I bought with the intentions of autoxing, so streetability is not a huge ordeal. is the best option to go superchager and rebuild the 12v and internals? Is there really any potential there? I understand the cost of the s4 swap compares to the cost of an s4. is there a stroker kit for the 12v? so stroker + supercharger? stand alone engine management to run it all? looking for option and opinions here.
 
 
Thanks.            

see post ^^^ I originall y asked about the feasability of a s4 motor swap, but survey says: "waste of time"

I very much doubt you could swap an S4 motor into your 12V A4 for anything around $6000.

you could try a 30v swap, then supercharge that, its probably about as much as buying a supercharger and changing internals on a 12v, and you get more power outa it.

so a 30v would be a near direct swap correct? It's the same motor as the 12v but with a different head structure? Does anyone know if this has been done or if a harness swap would be required?

a harness swap, ECU swap, and just about everything else swap would be required. 
 
it's not worth it.  if you want a different engine in your A4, buy an A4 with that engine in it.

maybe we can get sum pix of the underbody of both cars? then we can see where the mounts are which is rly the main thing. also the tranny too. 

i've read around that it is pretty much a direct swap, but the best thing would be too find a semi totaled car to pull all the necesary components off of, it would be very cheap that way, and cost ALOT less then buyin g a new car. all depends on what you can find. and how much time you wana put into it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belligerence™

a harness swap, ECU swap, and just about everything else swap would be required. 

it's not worth it.  if you want a different engine in your A4, buy an A4 with that engine in it.

The work will be done by me, at a mechanic's shop I do a ton of work with. I have welding skills, and lots of custom fab work in my past. I'll have little to no labor cost. I've got almost NOTHING in the car thus far money wise, with a completely set up suspension.

This is a toy, so it looks like the 30v will be the way to go. Hopefully the harnesses are the same, and it's just an ECU swap. It would make sense given they are both 6 cylinder motors, and since the displacement is the same, hopefully the motor mounts line up, although making new mounts would be a day's work only. can anyone take photos from under their 30v of motor and tranny mount locaitons for me?

thanks for all the help and input thus far.


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I am planning on doing a S4 swap soon. Im going to go around to PLENTY of junk yards and try to find a Side/Rear hit S4 buy the motor/trans/Cluster/Harness/ECU Etc. Beef up the engine a little bit, turbos new chip so no and so forth then eventually drop it in. It will be a project engine sitting on a engine crane probably for a year. :)

-Insted of pulling the engine out of my car with a engine crain, i am going to do something different. The way the newer B5's subframes are setup it would be eaiser to lift up the whole front of the chassis with the engine crain than drop the motor out(since i dont have a lift).
 
 
-I dont expect to get this done for a year or two so im in noooo rush what so ever, thats why i am willing to do it.

that's the same plan i have as far as timelines... I'm going to stand build the motor, and when the one in her goes, then i'll start ripping into her for the swap. It's such a long term project, that all of the inricate details and engineering "problems" will be part of the fun, not a huge headache.if i was trying to weekend swap a motor for a driver, I'd never attempt something outside of the factory intended motor.
 
Keep us posted on the s4 swap, I made a few calls and an s4 front clip was $7700 delivered! cripes! motor and trans for a 20k mile 30v 5 spd was $4900... I'ma keep on scrap yard houndin'!

i would go with the vr6 and turbo it, you should be able to get a vr6 for about 5-600 and then whichever turbo setup you wanna go with
 
there is a nice thread about this right now over on zine, go take a look

I have a feeling the 30V, being a more advanced engine, may well have additional sensors and connections on it that would be taken into account by the wiring harness.  Since the ECU is under the hood anyhow, it shouldn't be that difficult to remove and replace with a proper 30V harness.  Otherwise you'd have to cob something together, and if you're going to do it, you should do it right and use the right parts.  Save yourself a lot of aggravation down the road.

quote:

ORIGINAL: turbo kraut

i would go with the vr6 and turbo it, you should be able to get a vr6 for about 5-600 and then whichever turbo setup you wanna go with

there is a nice thread about this right now over on zine, go take a look

034 Motorsport VR6-T swap.

There's actually a BETTER thread on vwvortex/fourtitude. Final cost would be ~$10,000, but it'd be a 500+awhp monster with a very usable powerband.

here are a couple ideas for you. first of all. i was going to do a s4 swap before i realized that the engine isn't worth it. it is the same as the 2.8 so, buy a 2.8 for an easier swap and save money and just bolt on the s4 parts like this passat. http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149202&page=2&pp=30 boom. you know the engine fits and if you rebuild your internals and go crazy with the turbos you could have a awesome conversion. also if you want to get really custom do a 2.8 with rebuilt internals a PES G2 with smaller pullies and a rear mount turbo combo you get instant acceration power and high RMP boost. whats not to like? this could be a really neat custom project. personally when my motor goes i'm going to do the VR6 swap and i think this is your best bet. a turbo VR6 cna lay down some serious HP like 600 no problem. plus 034motor sport has already done it! this means they have all the parts that you would need. most importantly tuning. this means you get a really fast car, an engine bay you can still work in, a lighter weight engine, and a really custom project. if you are going ground up with a stand alone ECU. if you just want a plain simple half a block to start with check out eurospec http://www.eurospecsport.com/enginev6.htm you should be able to get a nice engine to start with prebuilt to be a power house. just my 2 cents.

Don't do any of that. find a a4 that you like with the engine and lower milage that you like, then swap your awesome song and a dance suspension into the car that won't need the engine swap. Suspension swap is much easier than an engine swap. Plus, you could put the stock suspension on the song and a dance car, sell it for a profit.  

quote:


034 Motorsport VR6-T swap.

There's actually a BETTER thread on vwvortex/fourtitude. Final cost would be ~$10,000, but it'd be a 500+awhp monster with a very usable powerband.

There final price tag was actually around $25,000