AudiForums.com

Go Back   AudiForums.com > Audi Models > Audi A4
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Audi A4 The Audi A4 model offers nimble handling and performance that makes it one of the leading cars in its class. Read more about the Audi A4 in the Audi A4 review.

Welcome to Audi Forums!
Welcome to Audi Forums,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 10-02-2007, 09:59 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Hello-

I have a 2001 audi a4 1.8T. the motor has a noisy cam chain tensioner. It only makes noise when it is hot and the noise is eliminated when I connect my test harness I created that will energize the solinoid.

Once the solinoid is energized the noise is gone. (sure idle is a bit rough but that is due to the cam advance. Remove the power to the solinoid the noise is back. I have isolated the issue to this. Oil pressure is fine. Motor has been cleaned and sea foam is currently being used to control sludge.

Now my question. What is specifically wrong with the cam chain tensioner? The plastic guides look fine??? or is the chain that actually is stretched? or is it the sprockets and chain that have actually worn?? Can anyone tell me specificially what is wrong with the cam chain tensioner since this appears to be an issue with the 2001.


__________________
asf
  #2  
Old 10-02-2007, 10:13 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 419
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

i currently have the same issue on my 2003. i believe the came chain tensioner has an internal piston that can get worn out and or start get noisy if you have a sludge problem or higher mileage. the noise you are hearing is internal in itself. on mine everything looks tought and clean myslef. your came chain should be fine. just replace that tensioner. Auditech79 is very knowledgable on this topic....
__________________
[b] 2003 TQM. Black on Black on BLACK. 5% Tint, REVO stage II, 380cc Injectors, Black 18" VSR Wheels , Forge004, Magnaflow Exh, ATP downpipe, Black Suede Interior, Stewart Warner Boost Gauge, Forge MBC

Coming this Summer!! -GT3076r
  #3  
Old 10-03-2007, 12:52 AM
auditech79's Avatar
Site Moderator

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 9,004
Points: 13,191, Level: 74
Points: 13,191, Level: 74 Points: 13,191, Level: 74 Points: 13,191, Level: 74
Level up: 86%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 86% Level up: 86% Level up: 86%
Daily Activity: 5.6%
Daily Activity: 5.6% Daily Activity: 5.6% Daily Activity: 5.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

The answer above is correct, its the piston that your hearing. There is only two things that will cause this noise to happen from the chain tensioner.
A) The oil pressure is low starving the chain tensioner for oil making it chatter (like a diesel engine)
But you claim that you have checked this, i would check it again.
B) The oil passage inside the tensioner is blocked starving the tensioner for oil in which case the chain tensioner has to be replaced.
__________________
99 Chevy Silverado Z71 6" rough country lift/W 35" tires, 4.10 gears, (4.56 soon) S&B CAI and a flowmaster super 44 exhaust.
"Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and beat you with experience." My personal motto.
  #4  
Old 10-03-2007, 12:55 AM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Luis Obispo CA
Posts: 419
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

if you praise him....he will come lol
Quote:
Auditech79 is very knowledgable on this topic....
__________________
[b] 2003 TQM. Black on Black on BLACK. 5% Tint, REVO stage II, 380cc Injectors, Black 18" VSR Wheels , Forge004, Magnaflow Exh, ATP downpipe, Black Suede Interior, Stewart Warner Boost Gauge, Forge MBC

Coming this Summer!! -GT3076r
  #5  
Old 10-03-2007, 10:25 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Not sure if this is in spec but here is what I did tonight. Connected an oil pressure gauge to the tap on the cooler by the oil filter. Ran the engine till the oil got to temperature. The motor ran at 20psi at idle and went to 40psi on revs. The tapping noise came an went at the oil pressure meter stayed exactly at 20psi.

20pis was very much held during the entire warmup and idle process. Reading other posts I believe this is within specification. Or should I review and boot up ELSA.

Did another examination of the chain tensionser. Give the item is spring loaded and the cams go clockwise. the top portion of t he chain tensioner is an idler. The interesting thing is that it appears the piston that holds the top guild is actually loose or appears to have play. Thus when one actuates the tensioner the top guild is pulled to the bottom. Effectivly removing the play and making the idler quite.

__________________
asf
  #6  
Old 10-03-2007, 11:12 PM
auditech79's Avatar
Site Moderator

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 9,004
Points: 13,191, Level: 74
Points: 13,191, Level: 74 Points: 13,191, Level: 74 Points: 13,191, Level: 74
Level up: 86%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 86% Level up: 86% Level up: 86%
Daily Activity: 5.6%
Daily Activity: 5.6% Daily Activity: 5.6% Daily Activity: 5.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mimgq2

Not sure if this is in spec but here is what I did tonight. Connected an oil pressure gauge to the tap on the cooler by the oil filter. Ran the engine till the oil got to temperature. The motor ran at 20psi at idle and went to 40psi on revs. The tapping noise came an went at the oil pressure meter stayed exactly at 20psi.

20pis was very much held during the entire warmup and idle process. Reading other posts I believe this is within specification. Or should I review and boot up ELSA.

Did another examination of the chain tensionser. Give the item is spring loaded and the cams go clockwise. the top portion of t he chain tensioner is an idler. The interesting thing is that it appears the piston that holds the top guild is actually loose or appears to have play. Thus when one actuates the tensioner the top guild is pulled to the bottom. Effectivly removing the play and making the idler quite.

Oh no, you have to have at least 40 psi at idle! 60-80 when reving up the motor!
Don't touch the tensioner, its supposed to have play.
Get your oil pick up tube replaced ASAP.
__________________
99 Chevy Silverado Z71 6" rough country lift/W 35" tires, 4.10 gears, (4.56 soon) S&B CAI and a flowmaster super 44 exhaust.
"Never argue with a fool, they will lower you to their level and beat you with experience." My personal motto.
  #7  
Old 10-03-2007, 11:20 PM
hiwords's Avatar
5th Gear

 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: noob from NY
Posts: 7,728
Points: 7,965, Level: 60
Points: 7,965, Level: 60 Points: 7,965, Level: 60 Points: 7,965, Level: 60
Level up: 8%, 185 Points needed
Level up: 8% Level up: 8% Level up: 8%
Daily Activity: 0%
Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0%
Send a message via AIM to hiwords
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

haha i think i just got my unasked question answered lol.
__________________
Project Albino Donkey

  #8  
Old 10-04-2007, 08:12 AM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

I really wanted to avoid this as much as possible since this happened to be at 33K but at that time the engine light went on. So changing your oil every 3-5K makes no difference verse the recommended 10K from Audi. This thing will still clog.

Now this car should be under warrenty. Any tips to confirm it will get through a warrenty service. I have invoices for every oil change using Mobil 1 syntetic 5-40.

If I can't get this thing serviced under warrenty. What are some tips to drop the pan. It appears the back two bolts of the pan require a ball allen key? Can I just use a standard allen key with a ball tip. Or should I cut the L off. Will 3" be long enough?

My thoughts on the oil pan extractiong, pull bumper, place in service position, lift car by body rails, hold motor with an engine hoist, remove mount bolts, place roller jack unter sub frame, remove front bolts from sub frame, loosen rear bolts, lover sub-frame on an angle, remove pan. Any tips on this process?

Thanks

__________________
asf
  #9  
Old 10-04-2007, 12:47 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 12
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Your oil pressure should be a minimum of 1.3 bar (18.83 psi) at idle and around 50psi at 2000 rpm. So your oil pressure seems ok. I have had the exact problem with my 02 a4. replaced the cam chaim tensioner and all is well. Although I did do everything that Audi suggest before replacing the tensioner. I was luck y I guess because all of my cam bearings were ok and there was no slugde in the oil pan. I did replace the oil pump and pick-up screen while I had the oil pan off. But my oil pressure was the same before and after the new oil pump.
  #10  
Old 10-04-2007, 03:51 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Ok this is what I was concerned about. I will check with the ELSA manual on the exact pressure specifications. I have two answers here one that 18psi at idle is ok and one that 40 psi at idle is correct.

Funny thing is when the oil is cold the first spec is correct and when my oil is oil the 2nd spec is correct.
__________________
asf
  #11  
Old 10-04-2007, 04:55 PM
onepoint8tee's Avatar
Site Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,665
Points: 26,392, Level: 97
Points: 26,392, Level: 97 Points: 26,392, Level: 97 Points: 26,392, Level: 97
Level up: 5%, 958 Points needed
Level up: 5% Level up: 5% Level up: 5%
Daily Activity: 0%
Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0%
Send a message via AIM to onepoint8tee
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mimgq2

Ok this is what I was concerned about. I will check with the ELSA manual on the exact pressure specifications. I have two answers here one that 18psi at idle is ok and one that 40 psi at idle is correct.

Funny thing is when the oil is cold the first spec is correct and when my oil is oil the 2nd spec is correct.
Correct, oil is oil.
__________________
  #12  
Old 10-04-2007, 05:38 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

When the Oil is hot - Per the ELSA manual-"at least 1 BAR at idle" or 14.5038 psi. So now I assume the audi manual is correct?????? Thus I do not have an oil pressure issue??? or is this as accurate as auidi saying a timing belt should last 90K miles.

Who's right???
__________________
asf
  #13  
Old 10-04-2007, 05:50 PM
onepoint8tee's Avatar
Site Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,665
Points: 26,392, Level: 97
Points: 26,392, Level: 97 Points: 26,392, Level: 97 Points: 26,392, Level: 97
Level up: 5%, 958 Points needed
Level up: 5% Level up: 5% Level up: 5%
Daily Activity: 0%
Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0%
Send a message via AIM to onepoint8tee
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Auditech is right.
__________________
  #14  
Old 10-04-2007, 07:33 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Am I reading this correct, you replaced your pump and pickup tube and you still had the same oil pressure????? You must be kidding, the book says 1 bar to 3.8 bar is in spec.

__________________
asf
  #15  
Old 10-04-2007, 07:39 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

when my oil is HOT!!
__________________
asf
  #16  
Old 10-04-2007, 07:42 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47 Points: 5,491, Level: 47
Level up: 71%, 59 Points needed
Level up: 71% Level up: 71% Level up: 71%
Daily Activity: 0.6%
Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6% Daily Activity: 0.6%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: techmike99

Your oil pressure should be a minimum of 1.3 bar (18.83 psi) at idle and around 50psi at 2000 rpm. So your oil pressure seems ok. I have had the exact problem with my 02 a4. replaced the cam chaim tensioner and all is well. Although I did do everything that Audi suggest before replacing the tensioner. I was luck y I guess because all of my cam bearings were ok and there was no slugde in the oil pan. I did replace the oil pump and pick-up screen while I had the oil pan off. But my oil pressure was the same before and after the new oil pump.

So as it stands now, is your car ok? was the oil pickup needed or was that an incorrect repair? Your oil pressure was the same with the old pump as with the new pump?? are you serious? you must have been really mad after that job of dropping the pan? Can you see a real problem with the tensioner?
__________________
asf
  #17  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:28 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 12
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

I got my car from a customer that had it towed to my shop from Audi. The car would start to make a knocking noise after 20 minutes of running. It only made the noise at idle. Audi had told my customer that the car would have to have an engine. Well the customer and Audi got cross so that is were I camein. Audi's repair information said to check to oil pressure first. Audi's spec's for the 1.8t is 1.3 bar at idle and 3.5 to 4.5 bar at 2000 rpm. Thats 18psi at idle and 50 to 60 psi at 2000 rpm. This is at operating temp. If all is well then pull the cam bearings for inspection. All of the cam bearings were fine. If all is well there then you are to pull the oil pan and inspect the pick-up screen for sludge. If no sludge is found then replace the oil pump and pick-up screen and retest. If the noise is still there then replace the engine. Now all of this information is Audi's information. This is what is do for a living. I just wasn't convinced that the car needed an engine. I talked to a few well respected tech's and engine builders that I know and they agreed that something else was the problem. I had visually inspected the cam chain tensioner and it looked ok. I did an internet search and found this forum. I did a search andno one had addressed my specific problem. So I let the engine run until it started making the noise then removed the valve cover and low and behold the cam chain tensioner was giving it hell at idle. So Ireplaced the tensioner and a few other parts while I had it tore down and now everthing is fine. In the middle of the repair the customer bought a new car and made me a great deal on his "piece of crap" Audi. I finished the repair and now have a few thousand miles on it. I have never been a fan of German cars but I love this car. It is in immaculate condition. A side note on oil pressure. The specifications for oil pressure are for a minimume pressure under normal operation temp. Bearing wear has to be considered before condeming and oil pump. That is why Audi wants the cam bearings inspected before replacing the oil pump.
  #18  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:39 PM
acetrebo's Avatar
4th Gear

 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,392
Points: 8,323, Level: 61
Points: 8,323, Level: 61 Points: 8,323, Level: 61 Points: 8,323, Level: 61
Level up: 58%, 127 Points needed
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Daily Activity: 0.8%
Daily Activity: 0.8% Daily Activity: 0.8% Daily Activity: 0.8%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mimgq2

When the Oil is hot - Per the ELSA manual-"at least 1 BAR at idle" or 14.5038 psi. So now I assume the audi manual is correct?????? Thus I do not have an oil pressure issue??? or is this as accurate as auidi saying a timing belt should last 90K miles.

Who's right???
Trust your elsa manual. If those are the specs for your car in the manual, thenI cant see how anyone can argue this, even auditech79. Sounds like you need to replace the cam chain tensioner.
__________________
Acetrebo
"because life is too short to drive bad cars"
  #19  
Old 10-04-2007, 11:54 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 205
Points: 4,140, Level: 40
Points: 4,140, Level: 40 Points: 4,140, Level: 40 Points: 4,140, Level: 40
Level up: 95%, 10 Points needed
Level up: 95% Level up: 95% Level up: 95%
Daily Activity: 0%
Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0% Daily Activity: 0%
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

I really can't believe that you've gone through all of this diagnostic work. It sounds like the car just needs a new Cam Chain Tensioner. The problem lies in the cam chain itself is a bit loose, thus creating a rattle in the engine. The tensioner isn't tightening up all of the way at normal operating temp, so it's still functioning but not to standard specs. If you replaced your oil pump and pickup tube and the problem is still there just get a new tensioner, put it in and call it a day.

I had the same exact problem in my '01 A4 1.8T and I had it diagnosed at three different shops and they all said the same thing. It didn't even cause a CEL to come on because it was sort of half functional and the chain was running only partially slack.

Good Luck!

LampyB.
__________________

  #20  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:54 AM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location:
Posts: 12
Default RE: CAM CHAIN TENSIONER TESTING

LampyB, your right the car did just need a cam chain tensioner in the end. But just puttingone in would have been an expensiveguess. It could have been a low oil pressure problem also. So before dropping a grand on parts and labor I wanted to make sure I had the problem figured out. Most customers don't like for me to guess at what will fix their cars. You also have to understand that I had not seen this problem before on anAudi. So you have to kind of use Audi's diagnostic tree to guide you. If you read Audi's take on this they do everything but replace the cam chain tensioner. So that is why forums like this help so much. You can talk to a lot of Audi owners that may had the same problem.
Old 10-05-2007, 06:54 AM
 
 
 
Reply


Tags
18, 18t, a4, audi, bad, cam, chain, golf, gti, leave, mk, noise, replacement, tensioner, tentioner, test


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
New Sponsors

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 AM.


Internet Brands, Inc.
Emails Backup