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Old 01-12-2007, 06:34 PM
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Default What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Hey guys,

Someone has a k03s turbo for sale for a resonable price on this board, however I've heard there are some gains with the k03s vs k03 (Which I have stock on my FWD 180TT) ....I've also been looking into a k04 turbo.

The k03s is considerably cheaper....other than my turbo after my stage 1 clutch install...I have no other mods i'd like to complete other than rims and better brakes.


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what kinds of gains will I see with a k03s?
What kinds of gains will i see with a K04?


For the money the ko3's appears to be a better value....
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Old 01-12-2007, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

k03s?? I think that is just plural for k03...k03s are on the s4, which is biturbo...you either go k03, k04, k04 hybrid, or BT..
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Old 01-12-2007, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

K03's stands for ko3 sport.

I know there is a difference, im just wondering how much...i've read it uses the same compressor as the k04. Just its smaller so it spools faster...which I really like...

anyways...if anyone knows the hp/lbs gains i'll see ....it would really help me in the purchase.


Thanks!
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

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ORIGINAL: Deb38

k03s?? I think that is just plural for k03...k03s are on the s4, which is biturbo...you either go k03, k04, k04 hybrid, or BT..
Lil help? "BT" ?
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Old 01-13-2007, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

ive asked this before, but nobody really answered it correctly. Is it worth it to upgrade the turbo if the stock engines compression ratio is an already high 9.5:1? isntmore boost than the stock turbocharger's capable of in this scenario kinda asking for trouble??I can see how in the "225" engine its safer because of its lower compression and better rotating assembly (or so i heard)?
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:04 AM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

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ORIGINAL: bmwtoaudi

K03's stands for ko3 sport.

I know there is a difference, im just wondering how much...i've read it uses the same compressor as the k04. Just its smaller so it spools faster...which I really like...

anyways...if anyone knows the hp/lbs gains i'll see ....it would really help me in the purchase.


Thanks!
You are right, the K03 is smaller so it does spool faster but you really shouldnt run anymore than 17-18psi (on a chipped 180)on it because it will max the little turbo out. Basically it will be running at it maximum load. The K04 is bigger and can produce a little more pressure, they say 22-24on chipped (225) cars. That is where the K04 will max out. So if all you want to run is 17psi then I would say stick with the K03, if you want to run a little more then go with a K04 but really for that price you may want to look into getting a eliminator kit from www.atpturbo.com. I dont know the numbers for the gains that you will see with the K04 sorry. Good luck
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Old 01-13-2007, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

here is the differnce

ko3 small turbo for most 2000-2001 cars
ko3s have a slightly bigger compressor, the same for a ko4-001 for 2001- on
ko4-001 or 15 has a slighly larger turbine housing than a ko3s
ko4-2x are off 225 have a larger turbine and compressor than the ko4-001

you will see some gain from ako3 to a ko3s (~10hp @ smae psi) but thats about it.

^ these turbo are all very capabable of running 20-24 daily without any problems.
^^ the compression will help spool your turbo faster (like the need it) and give more power through out the power band. Your engine was designed to run it and there are people running 300, 400, 500 plus whp with 9.5:1 compression on these engines everyday.
^^^ the spool on all of the turbos listed above are way to quick to even worry about, if you have fwd a laggier turbo is suggested. A larger turbo, even running at a low psi will allow you to get better traction and make good power, plus have room to grow.

i tried to make this own post so i hope everyone finds the response to their questions.
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Old 01-13-2007, 03:26 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Its all about the efficiency island. You can make more boost even with the smallest of those turbos, but it gets to a point, where you're making so much heat, it offsets the pressure. Hot air is less dense air, so even though the pressure is higher, there isn't more air there.

Heres a random example of a map, you want to try to run your car so that your as close as you can to staying inside that island in the middle, this is where you're turbo is making the best use of the air flowing thru it. Make sure you always stay away from that surge line, thats the point where you'll start doing damage to the turbo. Surge is the situation when the compressor "spits out" more air than the engine can swallow, which causes a backup of air at the intake and it actually creates reverse-flowing pressure waves that can bedamaging to the turbo. All that air pushing back thru the turbo can be equated to thowing a stick in the spokes of someones bicycle. It stops/slows the spin very quickly, and thats a lot of stress.

Click the image to open in full size.

So, with that said, the best way to go about choosing a turbo is with a little research. What kind of power do you want the car to make, realistically, and to get that, what A/R ratio, and boost pressure you're gonna need to do that, so that you can keep your efficiency up. Now, if your only choosing between a selection of turbos that were designed for similar 1.8 engines, just about all that work has been done for you, these are turbos hand picked for the car, so pretty much most of what i just said can be ignored, but its still good to know what exactly your turbo is doing.

And this concludes your slightly-more-technical-than-you-want turbo lesson for today. ; )
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Old 01-13-2007, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

they are choosing between kkk turbos not a 57 or 60 trim t3/t4 so i dont think surge comes into play here. And with proper cooling (larger intercooler or better yet w/m injection) there is still power to be made.

and for those looking that is a super 60 turbo show above not a ko anything (just pointly that out) but a great step up from a ko3 and slightly bigger and more powerful than a ko4-2x. Kits can be made for about the same as a k04-2x setup and youll get more power and get garrett's reliability
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:26 AM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

are there any links to all these HIGH HP cars running the stock 9.5 comp ratioand stock shortblock?
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Old 01-14-2007, 02:27 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: MauriSSio

are there any links to all these HIGH HP cars running the stock 9.5 comp ratioand stock shortblock?
he is a bunch of examples of1.8t's with a bunch of dynos, havent seen person lower comp or change the stock head gasket (havent reach the limit of either even at 600+hp) http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2698530
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:22 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Surge can come into play with any turbo, the K03 is not exempt... Its not a usual happening, but under certain circumstances it is possible, however rare.

Browsing the web I haven't come across any K03 maps with boost plotted onto them, but I did come across similarly sized turbo, the VNT 15 found in diesel A4's, under certain conditions it runs pretty damn close to the edge of surge.

Click the image to open in full size.

I found this on tdiclub.com, and this IS a stock turbo, so its not like somebody just threw some turbo on some car.
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

the requsted is acually outside the surge line. That is kinda scary if you think about it. But the actual is on or within the line. Makes you wonder why they choose that turbo for the car if it doesnt quit meet the cars needs.
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:38 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Thats for a 4th gear WOT run from below 2000rpm i believe. How often are you straining an engine in 4th gear from almost idle? That plot was to show that it IS possible, most of the pulls the guy did were on the left of the chart. He did do some from a standard start from a stoplight, and i think maybe a highway pull.
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:25 PM
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Default RE: What are the differences between k03 and k03s and k04 turbos?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: MauriSSio

are there any links to all these HIGH HP cars running the stock 9.5 comp ratioand stock shortblock?
also fyi the new 2.0t runs 10:1. i bet none of them will lower their comp either.

http://autos.yahoo.com/2006_audi_a3_2.0_t-specs/?p=eng
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