skinny on k04 upgrade
#1
05-14-2008, 11:18 PM
skinny on k04 upgrade
STILL pretty new to getting performance upgrades done to my car. right no i got a 99.5 stick a4, will full 2.5exhaust and upgraded DV.
WOuld like to now fair prices for K04, PC 16 software to go with it, proper injectors, fuel regulator & FMIC Including installation in the NY area, just so i know what to expect & i know i am not getting owned. thanks in advance,
WOuld like to now fair prices for K04, PC 16 software to go with it, proper injectors, fuel regulator & FMIC Including installation in the NY area, just so i know what to expect & i know i am not getting owned. thanks in advance,
#2
05-14-2008, 11:19 PM
RE: skinny on 04 upgrade
would also like to know if its worth it to have the more aggresive file wit FMIC or to go with the less aggressive and save the fmic, or would u say fck it altogether and jut get giac k03 software?
#4
05-14-2008, 11:24 PM
RE: skinny on 04 upgrade
well the more power the better, but i also would like to save myself from spending a ridiculous amount of $$ and i want my car to be reliable. I really dont want to spend more than 2500-3k
#5
05-14-2008, 11:30 PM
RE: skinny on 04 upgrade
i just dont want u to get a k04 now and then upgrade to bt later 
so ur going to pay a shop to do the work, and not do it yourself right? cuz thats where a lot of the money will go. a shop would probably charge around 2000 just to install the k04 turbo and the chip. then another 1000 for fmic, a couple hundred for injectors, and the hammer file, could be around 3500 total for the agressive k04 setup.
so ur going to pay a shop to do the work, and not do it yourself right? cuz thats where a lot of the money will go. a shop would probably charge around 2000 just to install the k04 turbo and the chip. then another 1000 for fmic, a couple hundred for injectors, and the hammer file, could be around 3500 total for the agressive k04 setup.
#6
05-15-2008, 11:41 AM
RE: skinny on 04 upgrade
This should make good reading.
So, after much hemming and hawing (gtrs eliminator, gt28rs full setup, k04, etc) I finally decided that with all things considered a k04 was the right setup for me.
In the process, I found that it was very difficult to find 2001 specific k04 info, so I thought I would create a new thread to disccus it a bit and provide helpful links. I was also motivated by the facts that a) the current k04 threads are pretty fragmented, other than Drews, and b) there seem to be a lot of guys going this route right now.
So first some discussion/background...
I got the bug to mod my a4 again around the middle of summer. There was a killer deal on a gtrs in the classifieds, so I started pricing things out. After researching that for a bit, with a lot of discussion over PM with Laszlo, I decided that really wasn't the route for me. Seemed too half-assed. Prompted by these talks, I started looking at gt28rs setups. Pag Parts came up with a phenomenal setup, and I was about to pull the trigger, but before telling them to go I took a count of what was up in my life.
Two major factors influenced my decision:
1) My car is at 100k. I'm not going to keep it more than 2 more years, MAX. Investing that much in a turbo setup just didn't seem right.
2) My car has to be 100% reliable. I work as a senior account exec for a very well known company with some big clients. There is too much risk with the bigger turbo setup, and I just didn't want to bring that into my life.
Plus there were some other competing priorities. I need to build a new iguana enclosure for my little buddy to live in. I need to buy an xbox360 so I can play Halo3, Bioshock, and Gears of War. The HTC Tytn II is coming to the market. The Motorola z6 and z8 are out. I want to start playing Lacrosse again so I need a new helment. I need to buy season passes for a few ski resorts. They all cost money, and I'm not made of it, so a compromise has to be made, and that means skipping the big turbo setup so I can have a quick enough car and still afford the things I want.
Plus... come on... the s5 is coming out.
I'm sure there are as many opinions as there are clowns in this forum (
) but with all of that stacking up for me the k04 was quick, cheap, and easy for me.
On to the project...
This project has a simple goal: and do it cost-effectively.
Dollar for dollar, putting on a gtrs or something like that isn't all that much more than a k04. Of course, there are unique headaches with that project and from what I've seen the results are less than stellar. Esp in the torque curve department. Seemed to come on a little slow. No need to get flattened getting onto the pike because I can moove my car outta the toll booth! However, if you were to take some time and slow things down there are some good deals to be had. A lightly used k04. Shopping around for the MAF. Bargaining on the injectors. So, that's what I'm doing right now.
What to expect from this thread...
I want to put some information in this thread to help anyone else who goes to undertake this project in the future. Some key areas I want to address:
- Places to find the parts cheap
- Prices you should be paying for used parts
- Links to DIYs that drop the costs
- Links to general information that I found helpful
- Pictures of the install
- Dynos
Of note here, esp on the dynos: I intend to use unitronic as the provider of the software for this project. I havn't seen a lot of data, but I've been corresponding with them and they are pretty confident in their product. The alternative is the GIAC Hammer file, but I've heard less than rave reviews, and unitronic is firmly holding that they can do better for me than the 200whp most of the 01 hammer people have been producing. So, as I progress with the project watch for developments in here. If anyone has ideas or feedback that is sensible please feel free to post it, but try not to clutter my thread with "k04s blow, gtrs FTW" type posts because that's not what this is about, and since I'm a mod I'll pretty much just delete them anyway since they're off topic. I'll leave it open as long as it doesn't degrade completely. So, that being said, I hope you enjoy this, and hope that it makes the process a little bit easier for someone, or at least motivates someone on the edge to take the plunge.
One of the goals I mentioned was doing this on the cheap, so I wanted to list places I found parts, and what they cost me so people get an idea of what's fair.
To start, current engine/exhaust mods I have that you should probably have, or think about, to support this:
TT 2.5" exhaust, DP back - I think it was about $850 (techtonics)
ATP 3" test pipe - $125 (somebody...)
Dahlback DV - $70 (vortex user)
ATP 3" TIP - $200 (vortex user)
The TIP was a PITA to fit and to get to stay on. It is what it is though, seems to breathe easier and that's always good.
Parts Needed for the Hammer or Unitronic file:
k04-15 turbo - $500 (vortex user)
I highly suggest holding out for a low mileage used turbo. They run between $300 and $600 depending on the mileage. If you can't, click here to get one the next best way... from Rippinralf @ Kinetic
OE 225 TT 380cc injectors - $150
Why mess with things? Both files call for OE, and they're available. If you search, the going rate on 4T, Audizine, and Audiworld is about $150 give or take so hold out for that. They're not as scarce as people like to think. Unitronic specifically said to use them, so I'm sticking with their guidelines. If you can't find them your options are not as great as they used to be. All the pages say Genesis has discontinued their 380cc injectrs. Other than that GIAC mentions that Siemens Deka 1 380cc's work as well.
A note on sourcing these (pay attention - this is a nice tidbit!): to find them you need to do two things. 1) watch the mk1 TT classifieds, and 2) post a WTB in the forced indcution classifieds. Don't post in the mk1 TT classifieds looking for the part. They have enough buyers coming to them, they're not going to find you and post for you. Plus if you wait you're going to get beat out for the injectors if you are not pro-active. The WTB in the FI forum will catch everything else... Geneis, Siemens, and even some TT OE injectors. I posted and injectors started falling in my lap. I missed good deals thought because people saw my thread and started short-stopping, and the people posting in my thread were posting elsewhere. If you get a good deal there snap it up right away. Work smarter, not harder, to find your parts!
FMIC - still sourcing this, but the eBay DIY as discussed on another board seems to be a great route. I'll let you know on this as it develops
OE 225 TT MAF - Audi Part number: 06A906461EX / Bosch part number 0 986 280 211 X - This part has a 3" OD, and you should use the sensor AND housing. GIAC calls specifically for the OE 225TT piece, Unitronic says that most 3" OD hosings and sensors from Audi/VW should work. I think you'll be safe with a vr6 unit, which is supposedly cheaper, but I'm sticking with the TT unit on basic principle since either software company says it will work.
Prices for this are ALL over the place. I've found it as cheap as $75, but it requires a core. Leaving out the places that want a core, the cheapes places I've found it are Auto Parts Nationwide for $105, and ECS Tuning for $127. If someone has cheaper sources please let me know! This information is at the time of writing, as prices for these are on the rise.
Software - $6XX
I have REVO currently, so either way (GIAC or Unitronic) I'm paying for software. Hopefully I will swap my ECU out + cash to someone to offset this a bit though.
For more info, click here for GIAC's parts list for the Hammer file.
Some other bits and pieces:
SAI Removal - twenty squared has a block off plate and resistor for this, I will be picking those up as well to get the dustbuster out from under my hood. One of the benefits on Unitronic is that they can code this puppy right out, so between the plate, the resistor, and he software codes from this are a thing of the past
Some parts I am not using:
ATP or Kinetic manifold - All the stuff I've read seems to say that these give you more top end but take a bit of your low end. Part of the reason I want the mild k04 upgrade is because the car lives and drives in the city. I'm not going to bomb down Comm Ave at 120. I do need to cross some intersections that would make you think twice about the existence of god, so I'll take the low end. IF of course someone wants to donate a manifold to prove the critics wrong, I will dyno before and after and allow you to use the charts.
In the process, I found that it was very difficult to find 2001 specific k04 info, so I thought I would create a new thread to disccus it a bit and provide helpful links. I was also motivated by the facts that a) the current k04 threads are pretty fragmented, other than Drews, and b) there seem to be a lot of guys going this route right now.
So first some discussion/background...
I got the bug to mod my a4 again around the middle of summer. There was a killer deal on a gtrs in the classifieds, so I started pricing things out. After researching that for a bit, with a lot of discussion over PM with Laszlo, I decided that really wasn't the route for me. Seemed too half-assed. Prompted by these talks, I started looking at gt28rs setups. Pag Parts came up with a phenomenal setup, and I was about to pull the trigger, but before telling them to go I took a count of what was up in my life.
Two major factors influenced my decision:
1) My car is at 100k. I'm not going to keep it more than 2 more years, MAX. Investing that much in a turbo setup just didn't seem right.
2) My car has to be 100% reliable. I work as a senior account exec for a very well known company with some big clients. There is too much risk with the bigger turbo setup, and I just didn't want to bring that into my life.
Plus there were some other competing priorities. I need to build a new iguana enclosure for my little buddy to live in. I need to buy an xbox360 so I can play Halo3, Bioshock, and Gears of War. The HTC Tytn II is coming to the market. The Motorola z6 and z8 are out. I want to start playing Lacrosse again so I need a new helment. I need to buy season passes for a few ski resorts. They all cost money, and I'm not made of it, so a compromise has to be made, and that means skipping the big turbo setup so I can have a quick enough car and still afford the things I want.
Plus... come on... the s5 is coming out.
I'm sure there are as many opinions as there are clowns in this forum (
) but with all of that stacking up for me the k04 was quick, cheap, and easy for me.On to the project...
This project has a simple goal: and do it cost-effectively.
Dollar for dollar, putting on a gtrs or something like that isn't all that much more than a k04. Of course, there are unique headaches with that project and from what I've seen the results are less than stellar. Esp in the torque curve department. Seemed to come on a little slow. No need to get flattened getting onto the pike because I can moove my car outta the toll booth! However, if you were to take some time and slow things down there are some good deals to be had. A lightly used k04. Shopping around for the MAF. Bargaining on the injectors. So, that's what I'm doing right now.
What to expect from this thread...
I want to put some information in this thread to help anyone else who goes to undertake this project in the future. Some key areas I want to address:
- Places to find the parts cheap
- Prices you should be paying for used parts
- Links to DIYs that drop the costs
- Links to general information that I found helpful
- Pictures of the install
- Dynos
Of note here, esp on the dynos: I intend to use unitronic as the provider of the software for this project. I havn't seen a lot of data, but I've been corresponding with them and they are pretty confident in their product. The alternative is the GIAC Hammer file, but I've heard less than rave reviews, and unitronic is firmly holding that they can do better for me than the 200whp most of the 01 hammer people have been producing. So, as I progress with the project watch for developments in here. If anyone has ideas or feedback that is sensible please feel free to post it, but try not to clutter my thread with "k04s blow, gtrs FTW" type posts because that's not what this is about, and since I'm a mod I'll pretty much just delete them anyway since they're off topic. I'll leave it open as long as it doesn't degrade completely. So, that being said, I hope you enjoy this, and hope that it makes the process a little bit easier for someone, or at least motivates someone on the edge to take the plunge.
One of the goals I mentioned was doing this on the cheap, so I wanted to list places I found parts, and what they cost me so people get an idea of what's fair.
To start, current engine/exhaust mods I have that you should probably have, or think about, to support this:
TT 2.5" exhaust, DP back - I think it was about $850 (techtonics)
ATP 3" test pipe - $125 (somebody...)
Dahlback DV - $70 (vortex user)
ATP 3" TIP - $200 (vortex user)
The TIP was a PITA to fit and to get to stay on. It is what it is though, seems to breathe easier and that's always good.
Parts Needed for the Hammer or Unitronic file:
k04-15 turbo - $500 (vortex user)
I highly suggest holding out for a low mileage used turbo. They run between $300 and $600 depending on the mileage. If you can't, click here to get one the next best way... from Rippinralf @ Kinetic
OE 225 TT 380cc injectors - $150
Why mess with things? Both files call for OE, and they're available. If you search, the going rate on 4T, Audizine, and Audiworld is about $150 give or take so hold out for that. They're not as scarce as people like to think. Unitronic specifically said to use them, so I'm sticking with their guidelines. If you can't find them your options are not as great as they used to be. All the pages say Genesis has discontinued their 380cc injectrs. Other than that GIAC mentions that Siemens Deka 1 380cc's work as well.
A note on sourcing these (pay attention - this is a nice tidbit!): to find them you need to do two things. 1) watch the mk1 TT classifieds, and 2) post a WTB in the forced indcution classifieds. Don't post in the mk1 TT classifieds looking for the part. They have enough buyers coming to them, they're not going to find you and post for you. Plus if you wait you're going to get beat out for the injectors if you are not pro-active. The WTB in the FI forum will catch everything else... Geneis, Siemens, and even some TT OE injectors. I posted and injectors started falling in my lap. I missed good deals thought because people saw my thread and started short-stopping, and the people posting in my thread were posting elsewhere. If you get a good deal there snap it up right away. Work smarter, not harder, to find your parts!
FMIC - still sourcing this, but the eBay DIY as discussed on another board seems to be a great route. I'll let you know on this as it develops
OE 225 TT MAF - Audi Part number: 06A906461EX / Bosch part number 0 986 280 211 X - This part has a 3" OD, and you should use the sensor AND housing. GIAC calls specifically for the OE 225TT piece, Unitronic says that most 3" OD hosings and sensors from Audi/VW should work. I think you'll be safe with a vr6 unit, which is supposedly cheaper, but I'm sticking with the TT unit on basic principle since either software company says it will work.
Prices for this are ALL over the place. I've found it as cheap as $75, but it requires a core. Leaving out the places that want a core, the cheapes places I've found it are Auto Parts Nationwide for $105, and ECS Tuning for $127. If someone has cheaper sources please let me know! This information is at the time of writing, as prices for these are on the rise.
Software - $6XX
I have REVO currently, so either way (GIAC or Unitronic) I'm paying for software. Hopefully I will swap my ECU out + cash to someone to offset this a bit though.
For more info, click here for GIAC's parts list for the Hammer file.
Some other bits and pieces:
SAI Removal - twenty squared has a block off plate and resistor for this, I will be picking those up as well to get the dustbuster out from under my hood. One of the benefits on Unitronic is that they can code this puppy right out, so between the plate, the resistor, and he software codes from this are a thing of the past
Some parts I am not using:
ATP or Kinetic manifold - All the stuff I've read seems to say that these give you more top end but take a bit of your low end. Part of the reason I want the mild k04 upgrade is because the car lives and drives in the city. I'm not going to bomb down Comm Ave at 120. I do need to cross some intersections that would make you think twice about the existence of god, so I'll take the low end. IF of course someone wants to donate a manifold to prove the critics wrong, I will dyno before and after and allow you to use the charts.
#7
05-15-2008, 12:33 PM
RE: skinny on 04 upgrade
where in the ny area are your from? I also have a 99.5 1.8TQM, I am going with a gt2871r, but along with the turbo comes a whole bunch of others things how much power and money are you willing to invest? PM me.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
