upgrading 1.8t /w k04
#1
05-05-2008, 02:07 PM
upgrading 1.8t /w k04
i want to slap on a k04 on my 01 1.8t quattro /w a apr chip, intake, test pipe /w magnaflow exhaust and audi tt diverter valve. but im wondering, what else will i need along with the k04 turbo to properly and efficiently install it into my car
#2
05-05-2008, 02:16 PM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
i wouldnt go K04, your '01 has the K03s which is basically the same turbo(same housing and slightly different spindle). And the K04 is only rated at ~5 more hp thanthe K03s. If your going with a new turbo go with something bigger to make it more worthwhile. if not get chip, injectors, dv, exhaust and then use some of the money you saved and get wheels and shocks/springs or coil overs.
#5
05-05-2008, 03:34 PM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
Im just going to go all out(go big or go home)and get 76R if I upgrade the turbo, you have to replace about everything if you go past K04, the only things that might change is swapping internals and boring it to 2.0L which might be 2 grand more on top of already6 grand, and the first ride from K03s to 76R would be sick.
#7
05-05-2008, 07:55 PM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
well see my highest priority is getting some coil overs and then some 17" rims but i was just wondering about the k04 because my friend might be able to get me a low milage one for free
#8
05-05-2008, 10:11 PM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
well i guess if it's free then thats fine i guess. you'll just have to unbolt the k03s and bolt on the k04. there is a k04 file you can have installed but i don't know how much more apr will charge you for that. you won't see a whole lot of hp gain from the setup.
#9
05-06-2008, 07:25 AM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
i put a K04 in my 01.5 im running it at 23 psi and i was only running the stock with a chip so i cant say they were the same or different...but since the k04 and the k03s is supposed to be the same just run your car at 21psi and itll be like a k04...
i went with GIAC it only cost me $200 because i already had a GIAC chip in it...but a new flash will be $500 (i do believe) and if you get a FMIC you can upgrade the injectors to 280cc and run a 5 bar FPR...the k04 flash will work optimal with that not sure if theres a program for the injectors or not
i went with GIAC it only cost me $200 because i already had a GIAC chip in it...but a new flash will be $500 (i do believe) and if you get a FMIC you can upgrade the injectors to 280cc and run a 5 bar FPR...the k04 flash will work optimal with that not sure if theres a program for the injectors or not
#10
05-06-2008, 07:36 AM
RE: upgrading 1.8t /w k04
This may help
Uprated k04 files from GIAC - requirements
Required for all uprated files:
- k04-15 (duh)
- Upgraded exhaust
- Upgraded intercooler (SMIC or FMIC)
- Upgraded clutch
Required for pc-16 file (1997-1999.5):
- 3bar FPR according to GIAC, but "real world" reports recomend an adjustable FPR running at 2.7 or 2.8bar (google this for more examples)
- 310cc injectors
Required for j31 file (2000):
- 3bar FPR
- 310cc injectors
Required for Hammer file (2001):
- 3" OD MAF (from auid TT 225)
- 380cc injectors (from audi TT 225)
For more info on the k04 in the 2001 a4, including places to source parts and prices, check out my unitronic build thread here. Not required for files but nice to have:
- test pipe (ATP 3")
- larger Turbo Intake hose (ATP 3" TIP or Neuspeed xtreme intake hose)
- silicone boost hoses (samco if you want to pay full price, Zena Racing if you don't)
Parts info
2.5" exhaust, DP back - I think it was about $850 new (techtonics). $400 and up in the classifieds.
The turbo needs to breathe. Any bigger than 2.5" will be overkill on a k04 though. Some will say go with the 2.75, but that can lead to overboost, and I already have a 2.5" so I'm not upgrading right now. This is about doing a k04 for less money, remember?
3" test pipe - range from $75 to $125 for used, up to $160 for new.
The cat sucks power. If you can, get rid of it. The 3 inch unit bolts right up and you can really feel the difference. This part is readily available in the classifieds, so if you don't have one avoid paying full price. It's just a 3 inch tube! I got mine for $125 new, and it's an ATP unit. Custom is an option here, but you may have trouble due to emissions laws...
Diverter Valve - $50 to $70 used, up to $160 new.
Your diverter valve is old and tired. Pick your favorite brand and get it in place. Buy it used if you can find one in good shape, should run $50 to $70 for that. Otherwise they are on every tuner's site for $150-ish
ATP 3" TIP - $260 new.
So this baby is a 3 inch metal pipe, with one end attached to your turbo inlet and the other end attached to you MAF. It's great for two reasons. 1) It makes it nice and easy to plumb up your new 3" MAF, and 2) essentailly you're making sure there is no bottleneck and allowing the turbo to suck in as much air as possible with this baby. You're building an intake with a 3 inch MAF sensor housing anyway, so why stop there? Let it flow 3 inches all the way to the turbo. It won't starve for air without it, but you want it to be able to take in as much air as possible. For my money I'd always rather have a big metal pipe than a stock rubber piece or the samco, APR, or neuspeed upgraded units. They're not as bid, and in the end they're still rubber and can get soft, flex, crack, melt, and whatnot. Also, DON'T get this used. I bought one secondhand, and it was a disaster because it was missing pieces. Took three shipments from ATP, and cost me more than it would have to just get it from ATP new to begin with because they sent me the wrong stuff so I had to finish it with a home depot trip. It was worth it though, that baby has no problems suckin in air.
Parts Needed specifically for the Unitronic file:
k04-15 turbo - $300 - 500 used, $800 new.
I highly suggest holding out for a low mileage used turbo. They run between $300 and $500 depending on the mileage. If you can't, or don't want to risk not having a warranty, click here to get one the next best way... from Rippinralf @ Kinetic
Do NOT buy one of eBay for $200. They're not real, and will not fit properly. See the main k04 thread in the DIY/FAQ for that.
OE 225 TT 380cc injectors - $150 used, $450 new.
Why mess with things? Both files call for OE, and they're available. If you search, the going rate on 4T, Audizine, and Audiworld is about $150 give or take so hold out for that. They're not as scarce as people like to think. Unitronic specifically said to use them, so I'm sticking with their guidelines. If you can't find them your options are not as great as they used to be. All the pages say Genesis has discontinued their 380cc injectrs, but they're about $250 new if you can find them. Other than that GIAC mentions that Siemens Deka 1 380cc's work as well. If you're not going to get used parts out of the classifieds, talk to USRT as they have good prices and a great reputation around these parts.
A note on sourcing these (pay attention - this is a nice tidbit!): to find them you need to do two things. 1) watch the mk1 TT classifieds, and 2) post a WTB in the forced indcution classifieds. Don't post in the mk1 TT classifieds looking for the part. They have enough buyers coming to them, they're not going to find you and post for you. Plus if you wait you're going to get beat out for the injectors if you are not pro-active. The WTB in the FI forum will catch everything else... Geneis, Siemens, and even some TT OE injectors. I posted and injectors started falling in my lap. I missed good deals thought because people saw my thread and started short-stopping, and the people posting in my thread were posting elsewhere. If you get a good deal there snap it up right away. Work smarter, not harder, to find your parts!
Intercooler - $250 - $350 for eBay, $400 - 800 used, $500 - $1000 new.
I've decided on the Boost Factory SMIC for this project, because it will be efficient enough for the k04 (and still support a GT series turbo if I change my mind), while mounting in a stock location which will eliminate a need to hack my bumper, remove my fogs, and avoid any issues with the intercooler blocking airflow to my radiator or bouncing off the ends of a pothole in Boston and getting damaged. SMICs have show for be on equal ground with FMICs, and this is a great opportunity to demonstrate that.
If you want to go FMIC, and want to save money, the eBay DIY FMIC as discussed on another board seems to be a great route.
An upgraded intercooler is required for most more agressive files, so don't skip this.
click HERE to jump to more pics of the intercooler.
OE 225 TT MAF - $70 to $160 remanufactured, $150 - ?? new.
Audi Part number: 06A906461EX / Bosch part number 0 986 280 211 X - This part, for the AMU engine, has a 3" OD, and you should use the sensor AND housing. GIAC calls specifically for the OE 225TT piece, Unitronic says that most 3" OD hosings and sensors from Audi/VW should work. I think you'll be safe with a vr6 unit, which is supposedly cheaper, but I'm sticking with the TT unit on basic principle since either software company says it will work. MJM Autohaus sent me a part ending in MX, which is for, the BEA Engine, and they claim it is interchangable. We shall see.
Prices for this are ALL over the place. I'm heasitant to put any links in here because prices have changed TWICE since I began this thread. The two best prices I can find currently are at MJM Autohaus and German Auto Parts. Even if other places are cheaper GAP has some of the best customer service I have ever seen, and they are on top of their info (on par with DieselGeek, all around, if you've dealt with them you know!). MJM has been great as well, although in all honesty they seem a little more confused when you ask them questions. Can't go wrong ordering from either, as they are head and shoulders above most other places you're going to be able to source parts.
Software - $650
Even though I have Revo currently I've decided Unitronic is the way to go for this project. On paper they have a much more solid k04 program than GIAC's hammer file. They are able to remove the SAI, and make sure my test pipe does not throw codes, which GIAC does not seem to be able to offer me. Unitronic is confident that they can easily beat the 200whp provided by GIAC's hammer file, and I've heard a lot of good things about their software from tuners and users. It looks like nobody in here has tried this route, and the common conception is that GIAC Hammer file is the only way to go for the 01. Hopefully we will see in this thread that Unitronic is a fantastic alternative. If all goes well and the software lives up to expectations it will be the new standard. Only dyno time will show for sure though.
For more info, click here for GIAC's parts list for the Hammer file.
Some other bits and pieces:
SAI Removal - $45
twenty squared has a block off plate and resistor for this, I will be picking those up as well to get the dustbuster out from under my hood. One of the benefits on Unitronic is that they can code this puppy right out, so between the plate, the resistor, and the software codes from this are a thing of the past
MAP Relocation - Click here to jump to post
not as much a part as a few parts coming together. DBW cars have a MAP sensor on the Intercooler. If your FMIC/SMIC core doesn't have a bung welded to it, here's is a nice option that moves the MAP to a more accessable location.
Some parts I am not using:
ATP or Kinetic manifold - All the stuff I've read seems to say that these give you more top end but take a bit of your low end. Part of the reason I want the mild k04 upgrade is because the car lives and drives in the city. I'm not going to bomb down Comm Ave at 120. I do need to cross some intersections that would make you think twice about the existence of god, so I'll take the low end. IF of course someone wants to donate a manifold to prove the critics wrong, I will dyno before and after and allow you to use the charts.
Required for all uprated files:
- k04-15 (duh)
- Upgraded exhaust
- Upgraded intercooler (SMIC or FMIC)
- Upgraded clutch
Required for pc-16 file (1997-1999.5):
- 3bar FPR according to GIAC, but "real world" reports recomend an adjustable FPR running at 2.7 or 2.8bar (google this for more examples)
- 310cc injectors
Required for j31 file (2000):
- 3bar FPR
- 310cc injectors
Required for Hammer file (2001):
- 3" OD MAF (from auid TT 225)
- 380cc injectors (from audi TT 225)
For more info on the k04 in the 2001 a4, including places to source parts and prices, check out my unitronic build thread here. Not required for files but nice to have:
- test pipe (ATP 3")
- larger Turbo Intake hose (ATP 3" TIP or Neuspeed xtreme intake hose)
- silicone boost hoses (samco if you want to pay full price, Zena Racing if you don't)
Parts info
2.5" exhaust, DP back - I think it was about $850 new (techtonics). $400 and up in the classifieds.
The turbo needs to breathe. Any bigger than 2.5" will be overkill on a k04 though. Some will say go with the 2.75, but that can lead to overboost, and I already have a 2.5" so I'm not upgrading right now. This is about doing a k04 for less money, remember?
3" test pipe - range from $75 to $125 for used, up to $160 for new.
The cat sucks power. If you can, get rid of it. The 3 inch unit bolts right up and you can really feel the difference. This part is readily available in the classifieds, so if you don't have one avoid paying full price. It's just a 3 inch tube! I got mine for $125 new, and it's an ATP unit. Custom is an option here, but you may have trouble due to emissions laws...
Diverter Valve - $50 to $70 used, up to $160 new.
Your diverter valve is old and tired. Pick your favorite brand and get it in place. Buy it used if you can find one in good shape, should run $50 to $70 for that. Otherwise they are on every tuner's site for $150-ish
ATP 3" TIP - $260 new.
So this baby is a 3 inch metal pipe, with one end attached to your turbo inlet and the other end attached to you MAF. It's great for two reasons. 1) It makes it nice and easy to plumb up your new 3" MAF, and 2) essentailly you're making sure there is no bottleneck and allowing the turbo to suck in as much air as possible with this baby. You're building an intake with a 3 inch MAF sensor housing anyway, so why stop there? Let it flow 3 inches all the way to the turbo. It won't starve for air without it, but you want it to be able to take in as much air as possible. For my money I'd always rather have a big metal pipe than a stock rubber piece or the samco, APR, or neuspeed upgraded units. They're not as bid, and in the end they're still rubber and can get soft, flex, crack, melt, and whatnot. Also, DON'T get this used. I bought one secondhand, and it was a disaster because it was missing pieces. Took three shipments from ATP, and cost me more than it would have to just get it from ATP new to begin with because they sent me the wrong stuff so I had to finish it with a home depot trip. It was worth it though, that baby has no problems suckin in air.
Parts Needed specifically for the Unitronic file:
k04-15 turbo - $300 - 500 used, $800 new.
I highly suggest holding out for a low mileage used turbo. They run between $300 and $500 depending on the mileage. If you can't, or don't want to risk not having a warranty, click here to get one the next best way... from Rippinralf @ Kinetic
Do NOT buy one of eBay for $200. They're not real, and will not fit properly. See the main k04 thread in the DIY/FAQ for that. OE 225 TT 380cc injectors - $150 used, $450 new.
Why mess with things? Both files call for OE, and they're available. If you search, the going rate on 4T, Audizine, and Audiworld is about $150 give or take so hold out for that. They're not as scarce as people like to think. Unitronic specifically said to use them, so I'm sticking with their guidelines. If you can't find them your options are not as great as they used to be. All the pages say Genesis has discontinued their 380cc injectrs, but they're about $250 new if you can find them. Other than that GIAC mentions that Siemens Deka 1 380cc's work as well. If you're not going to get used parts out of the classifieds, talk to USRT as they have good prices and a great reputation around these parts.
A note on sourcing these (pay attention - this is a nice tidbit!): to find them you need to do two things. 1) watch the mk1 TT classifieds, and 2) post a WTB in the forced indcution classifieds. Don't post in the mk1 TT classifieds looking for the part. They have enough buyers coming to them, they're not going to find you and post for you. Plus if you wait you're going to get beat out for the injectors if you are not pro-active. The WTB in the FI forum will catch everything else... Geneis, Siemens, and even some TT OE injectors. I posted and injectors started falling in my lap. I missed good deals thought because people saw my thread and started short-stopping, and the people posting in my thread were posting elsewhere. If you get a good deal there snap it up right away. Work smarter, not harder, to find your parts!
Intercooler - $250 - $350 for eBay, $400 - 800 used, $500 - $1000 new.
I've decided on the Boost Factory SMIC for this project, because it will be efficient enough for the k04 (and still support a GT series turbo if I change my mind), while mounting in a stock location which will eliminate a need to hack my bumper, remove my fogs, and avoid any issues with the intercooler blocking airflow to my radiator or bouncing off the ends of a pothole in Boston and getting damaged. SMICs have show for be on equal ground with FMICs, and this is a great opportunity to demonstrate that.
If you want to go FMIC, and want to save money, the eBay DIY FMIC as discussed on another board seems to be a great route.
An upgraded intercooler is required for most more agressive files, so don't skip this.
click HERE to jump to more pics of the intercooler.
OE 225 TT MAF - $70 to $160 remanufactured, $150 - ?? new.
Audi Part number: 06A906461EX / Bosch part number 0 986 280 211 X - This part, for the AMU engine, has a 3" OD, and you should use the sensor AND housing. GIAC calls specifically for the OE 225TT piece, Unitronic says that most 3" OD hosings and sensors from Audi/VW should work. I think you'll be safe with a vr6 unit, which is supposedly cheaper, but I'm sticking with the TT unit on basic principle since either software company says it will work. MJM Autohaus sent me a part ending in MX, which is for, the BEA Engine, and they claim it is interchangable. We shall see.
Prices for this are ALL over the place. I'm heasitant to put any links in here because prices have changed TWICE since I began this thread. The two best prices I can find currently are at MJM Autohaus and German Auto Parts. Even if other places are cheaper GAP has some of the best customer service I have ever seen, and they are on top of their info (on par with DieselGeek, all around, if you've dealt with them you know!). MJM has been great as well, although in all honesty they seem a little more confused when you ask them questions. Can't go wrong ordering from either, as they are head and shoulders above most other places you're going to be able to source parts.
Software - $650
Even though I have Revo currently I've decided Unitronic is the way to go for this project. On paper they have a much more solid k04 program than GIAC's hammer file. They are able to remove the SAI, and make sure my test pipe does not throw codes, which GIAC does not seem to be able to offer me. Unitronic is confident that they can easily beat the 200whp provided by GIAC's hammer file, and I've heard a lot of good things about their software from tuners and users. It looks like nobody in here has tried this route, and the common conception is that GIAC Hammer file is the only way to go for the 01. Hopefully we will see in this thread that Unitronic is a fantastic alternative. If all goes well and the software lives up to expectations it will be the new standard. Only dyno time will show for sure though.
For more info, click here for GIAC's parts list for the Hammer file.
Some other bits and pieces:
SAI Removal - $45
twenty squared has a block off plate and resistor for this, I will be picking those up as well to get the dustbuster out from under my hood. One of the benefits on Unitronic is that they can code this puppy right out, so between the plate, the resistor, and the software codes from this are a thing of the past
MAP Relocation - Click here to jump to post
not as much a part as a few parts coming together. DBW cars have a MAP sensor on the Intercooler. If your FMIC/SMIC core doesn't have a bung welded to it, here's is a nice option that moves the MAP to a more accessable location.
Some parts I am not using:
ATP or Kinetic manifold - All the stuff I've read seems to say that these give you more top end but take a bit of your low end. Part of the reason I want the mild k04 upgrade is because the car lives and drives in the city. I'm not going to bomb down Comm Ave at 120. I do need to cross some intersections that would make you think twice about the existence of god, so I'll take the low end. IF of course someone wants to donate a manifold to prove the critics wrong, I will dyno before and after and allow you to use the charts.
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