85 UR quattro
#221
02-16-2017, 12:15 PM
This is my new to me 85 URQ I recently purchased from Curt Egerer. Curt was very kind to store the car at his facility till the weather was more conducive for driving it the 90 minutes to my shop. Great guy, thanks again for a great car.
So here is what I know about the car:
"One of the best examples of the classic ur quattro available. Very rare Canadian car. Original Tornado Red paint with black leather interior. 1 of only 17 quattros imported to Canada in 1985! Desirable and rare non-sunroof version. 167,000 KM. Clear Michigan title. Retains original metric instruments - I did not convert anything when I imported this car to the USA.
Over the course of the past 3 years, this car has been totally sorted out by Phil at Auto Europe in Birmingham. Phil was an Audi mechanic back when these cars were brand new. I basically gave him permission to check and correct anything that needed attention. The car was great when I bought it, but it's even better now! New hard fuel lines, clutch and slave cylinders, hydraulic bomb, alternator, starter, water pump, timing belt. tires, battery, master cylinder, rear differential bushing, center driveshaft bearing, etc., etc. The car has a modified head and a modified ECU to allow use of the Euro wastegate spring. A joy to drive. This must be what it was like to drive one of these cars brand new. No rattles or squeaks. Strong performer."
Certainly couldn't take issue with any of that and I've known Curt for a few years as a customer at my shop and when I worked at Auto Europe. I was just starting to think about buying a classic when this showed up. I thought I might import an Opel Manta from Europe. That's the car I had when I moved to the US around 20 years ago. I thought it was time to get one back. But then I saw this and it was obvious this was the car I should have. I grew up watching Group B rally in the forests in England and the quattro has always been my favorite Group B monster. Just the noise alone is enough to get my heart racing. Indeed, as I like to tell people, this car is why I now own a motorsports business and race RallyCross, autocross etc. Plus, it would be good that the car stay in Michigan where Curt could keep an eye on it.
I’ve had the car here for a couple of weeks now and driven it a couple of times. My goals for the car are to keep it in its original condition while fixing some of its issues and not-quite-original features. My list is already long but does not reflect the condition of the car but my mental condition of list making and nit-picking. Here are the highlights of what needs attention IMHO:
Restore leather seats DONE
Hot starting issues
Small dent in hood
Should it have Center console? NO
How much clutch is left?
Oil change DONE
Passenger door lock inoperative FIXED
Driver’s window seal loose
Handbrake boot fits poorly
Fuel leak smell FIXED gas cap
Passenger window sticks at 2” drop FIXED
Pass seat adjuster loose
Vent broken center REPLACED
Passenger door pocket coming away FIXED
Rear diff damp-reseal
Right rear wheel creaks
Wipers slow
Gearbox play, mounts?
Rust spots, leading edge of hood, and fender in engine bay
Wrong headlights HAVE ORIGINALS NOW-NOT INSTALLED
Door bars missing?
A/C removed engine bay, replace HAVE BUT NOT INSTALLED
Trunk carpet screws missing
Engine under tray missing right side REPLACED
Radio too new and blingy HAVE ORIGINAL
Upper front strut mounts loose
Rear brake lines rusty
Front ball joints
Lower control arm bushings iffy
Left front cv boot getting brittle REPLACED
Volts-volt and oil temp meters behave oddly
Door carpet coming away FIXED
Non-original steering wheel
Trunk strut inoperative. REPLACED
Key fob light
Exhaust crooked
Jack missing
Speaker cover loose FIXED
Non-original speakers
I might need help with some of these. Prepare yourselves for many questions. Obviously some of these are urgent and necessary, others trivial nit-picking but you can’t beat having a list. I’m sure it will grow rather than shrink even if I do check some off.
I still find it immensely ironic that, considering that I’m so into rally, have a rally related business and love to drive sideways that I bought a car that I can neither drive in the snow or on the loose. I guess I’ll have to limit my fun to wet roundabouts, the three or four that exist in SE Michigan. I may do the odd autocross in it or maybe a track day. Do they have track days for classics? I already took it round Waterford Hills track at the recent track day but only during the parade laps at lunchtime. Twas quite fun. Probably, this is what I’ll do most with the car. Just take it to local motorsport events and shows so people can enjoy seeing it. I am going to slap some BRAID wheels on it and a discreet windshield banner in white “BRAIDUSA.com” though as it has to earn it’s keep somehow.
These are the wheels that are on a boat in the Atlantic right now. What do you think?
I chose them because they are very reminiscent of the works wheels used on the S1, at least in my opinion. I ordered them in the same specs as the originals. I’ll use the Kumho 225/50-15 tires that came on the OE Ronals. Curt also gave me a set of BFG 215/50-15 which was the OE size but I’m not sure what to do with those yet.
Hopefully I’ll remember to update this page with news of the car's development and outings. Meanwhile, if you have any questions or suggestions let me know. I’m all ears, as some of you already know.
So here is what I know about the car:
"One of the best examples of the classic ur quattro available. Very rare Canadian car. Original Tornado Red paint with black leather interior. 1 of only 17 quattros imported to Canada in 1985! Desirable and rare non-sunroof version. 167,000 KM. Clear Michigan title. Retains original metric instruments - I did not convert anything when I imported this car to the USA.
Over the course of the past 3 years, this car has been totally sorted out by Phil at Auto Europe in Birmingham. Phil was an Audi mechanic back when these cars were brand new. I basically gave him permission to check and correct anything that needed attention. The car was great when I bought it, but it's even better now! New hard fuel lines, clutch and slave cylinders, hydraulic bomb, alternator, starter, water pump, timing belt. tires, battery, master cylinder, rear differential bushing, center driveshaft bearing, etc., etc. The car has a modified head and a modified ECU to allow use of the Euro wastegate spring. A joy to drive. This must be what it was like to drive one of these cars brand new. No rattles or squeaks. Strong performer."
Certainly couldn't take issue with any of that and I've known Curt for a few years as a customer at my shop and when I worked at Auto Europe. I was just starting to think about buying a classic when this showed up. I thought I might import an Opel Manta from Europe. That's the car I had when I moved to the US around 20 years ago. I thought it was time to get one back. But then I saw this and it was obvious this was the car I should have. I grew up watching Group B rally in the forests in England and the quattro has always been my favorite Group B monster. Just the noise alone is enough to get my heart racing. Indeed, as I like to tell people, this car is why I now own a motorsports business and race RallyCross, autocross etc. Plus, it would be good that the car stay in Michigan where Curt could keep an eye on it.
I’ve had the car here for a couple of weeks now and driven it a couple of times. My goals for the car are to keep it in its original condition while fixing some of its issues and not-quite-original features. My list is already long but does not reflect the condition of the car but my mental condition of list making and nit-picking. Here are the highlights of what needs attention IMHO:
Restore leather seats DONE
Hot starting issues
Small dent in hood
Should it have Center console? NO
How much clutch is left?
Oil change DONE
Passenger door lock inoperative FIXED
Driver’s window seal loose
Handbrake boot fits poorly
Fuel leak smell FIXED gas cap
Passenger window sticks at 2” drop FIXED
Pass seat adjuster loose
Vent broken center REPLACED
Passenger door pocket coming away FIXED
Rear diff damp-reseal
Right rear wheel creaks
Wipers slow
Gearbox play, mounts?
Rust spots, leading edge of hood, and fender in engine bay
Wrong headlights HAVE ORIGINALS NOW-NOT INSTALLED
Door bars missing?
A/C removed engine bay, replace HAVE BUT NOT INSTALLED
Trunk carpet screws missing
Engine under tray missing right side REPLACED
Radio too new and blingy HAVE ORIGINAL
Upper front strut mounts loose
Rear brake lines rusty
Front ball joints
Lower control arm bushings iffy
Left front cv boot getting brittle REPLACED
Volts-volt and oil temp meters behave oddly
Door carpet coming away FIXED
Non-original steering wheel
Trunk strut inoperative. REPLACED
Key fob light
Exhaust crooked
Jack missing
Speaker cover loose FIXED
Non-original speakers
I might need help with some of these. Prepare yourselves for many questions. Obviously some of these are urgent and necessary, others trivial nit-picking but you can’t beat having a list. I’m sure it will grow rather than shrink even if I do check some off.
I still find it immensely ironic that, considering that I’m so into rally, have a rally related business and love to drive sideways that I bought a car that I can neither drive in the snow or on the loose. I guess I’ll have to limit my fun to wet roundabouts, the three or four that exist in SE Michigan. I may do the odd autocross in it or maybe a track day. Do they have track days for classics? I already took it round Waterford Hills track at the recent track day but only during the parade laps at lunchtime. Twas quite fun. Probably, this is what I’ll do most with the car. Just take it to local motorsport events and shows so people can enjoy seeing it. I am going to slap some BRAID wheels on it and a discreet windshield banner in white “BRAIDUSA.com” though as it has to earn it’s keep somehow.
These are the wheels that are on a boat in the Atlantic right now. What do you think?
I chose them because they are very reminiscent of the works wheels used on the S1, at least in my opinion. I ordered them in the same specs as the originals. I’ll use the Kumho 225/50-15 tires that came on the OE Ronals. Curt also gave me a set of BFG 215/50-15 which was the OE size but I’m not sure what to do with those yet.
Hopefully I’ll remember to update this page with news of the car's development and outings. Meanwhile, if you have any questions or suggestions let me know. I’m all ears, as some of you already know.
#223
03-05-2017, 01:53 PM
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#224
03-17-2017, 02:43 PM
Uh oh! Car is on the lift again! Hopefully not for two years this time.
The plan is to drop the diff and reseal it. Three main seals to replace and I think they are all leaking to some extent.
My first plan was to undo the axle and drive shaft bolts, undo the diff mounts and then, hopefully wrangle the diff out. All the axle and drive shaft bolts came out easily but, however, it looks like the axles don't have enough axial free play to release and the subframe bushings have seen better days so new plan is to remove the diff with the subframe. Still have to separate the axles and drive shaft first though. Probably going to remove the track rods and lower control arms at the subframe and leave the struts hanging.
Must remember to disconnect the diff actuator though.
So, how hard could it be?
The plan is to drop the diff and reseal it. Three main seals to replace and I think they are all leaking to some extent.
My first plan was to undo the axle and drive shaft bolts, undo the diff mounts and then, hopefully wrangle the diff out. All the axle and drive shaft bolts came out easily but, however, it looks like the axles don't have enough axial free play to release and the subframe bushings have seen better days so new plan is to remove the diff with the subframe. Still have to separate the axles and drive shaft first though. Probably going to remove the track rods and lower control arms at the subframe and leave the struts hanging.
Must remember to disconnect the diff actuator though.
So, how hard could it be?
#225
03-23-2017, 04:46 PM
How hard could it be? Very
Well the axles and drive shaft needed some persuasion to let go of their respective couplings. A few wacks with a hammer did the job. I made some room by disconecting the lower control arms and the tie rods from the subframe.
Then moved on to the subframe bolts. Two came out easily. the rear right was seized in the sleeve but that tore out of the bushing so it did unscrew at least. The rear left just broke it's head off as soon as it saw the socket approaching.
We still managed to free the subframe from it with a bit of brute force but that left a siezed bolt taunting us in place.
So my friend Carlos welded a nut to it but as soon as we offered up the big socket to attempt to unscrew it we realised it was already hand tight! The power of heat. It's magical.
So next is inspection and tear down of the diff and subframe. Oh, and finding lots of parts.
Well the axles and drive shaft needed some persuasion to let go of their respective couplings. A few wacks with a hammer did the job. I made some room by disconecting the lower control arms and the tie rods from the subframe.
Then moved on to the subframe bolts. Two came out easily. the rear right was seized in the sleeve but that tore out of the bushing so it did unscrew at least. The rear left just broke it's head off as soon as it saw the socket approaching.
We still managed to free the subframe from it with a bit of brute force but that left a siezed bolt taunting us in place.
So my friend Carlos welded a nut to it but as soon as we offered up the big socket to attempt to unscrew it we realised it was already hand tight! The power of heat. It's magical.
So next is inspection and tear down of the diff and subframe. Oh, and finding lots of parts.
Last edited by team illuminata; 03-23-2017 at 04:51 PM.
#226
03-29-2017, 02:46 PM
We started to dismantle the diff and subframe. Dismantle might be too strong a word and we are just replacing bushings and seals, but it is an old Audi.
Drive shaft and both axle flanges are out.
This is the big seal on the left. No longer available but 034 Motorsport had some made. Phew!
Will need to replace this as it broke off the diff lock actuator shaft.
Will be replacing the diff lock actuator too of course. Already have a new one of those. The rear mount has seen better days. It will have to go. Have a couple of these in the parts bin though
and the left tie rod boot is split so this will have to be replaced too. Fortunately still available as a complete unit.
And, of course, new subframe bushings from Germany! So here we are, waiting for parts, again.
Drive shaft and both axle flanges are out.
This is the big seal on the left. No longer available but 034 Motorsport had some made. Phew!
Will need to replace this as it broke off the diff lock actuator shaft.
Will be replacing the diff lock actuator too of course. Already have a new one of those. The rear mount has seen better days. It will have to go. Have a couple of these in the parts bin though
and the left tie rod boot is split so this will have to be replaced too. Fortunately still available as a complete unit.
And, of course, new subframe bushings from Germany! So here we are, waiting for parts, again.
#227
04-02-2017, 05:32 PM
Got the right axle seal in but not started on the right one yet, the BIG one. Had to order the drive shaft seal as I had the wrong one but I did try fixing the groove in the saft with a Speedi Sleeve.
These press on the shaft using the tool provided with the sleeve but it didn't go too well and we were very disappointed with the tool as it seemed too big.
Will try again perhaps with one from a different supplier. We received some yokes for the diff actuator from a generous member of the community.
and for fun tried our new BRAID wheels for the 83 rally build on for size.
16x9, et12 so they are way too wide for the stock fenders of this car but will work well on or wide body rally car.
These press on the shaft using the tool provided with the sleeve but it didn't go too well and we were very disappointed with the tool as it seemed too big.
Will try again perhaps with one from a different supplier. We received some yokes for the diff actuator from a generous member of the community.
and for fun tried our new BRAID wheels for the 83 rally build on for size.
16x9, et12 so they are way too wide for the stock fenders of this car but will work well on or wide body rally car.
#228
04-21-2017, 07:37 AM
It’s been another slow project. Who would have thought replacing three diff seals would take this long? LOL
So we replaced the rear diff mount. The old one came out on the press but the new one only needed a g-clamp and some grease to persuade it home. Fortunately we took pictures so we were able to orient it correctly; or at least the same.
We searched hi and low for a new shaft repair sleeve that was the right size and not made by SKF. You may remember the last one was distorted by it’s own installation tool. Finally settled on one from National but when we opened the box the instructions were from SKF! Anyway we were a lot more wary installing his one and managed to keep it staright by making our own installation tool out of a pipe clamp.
Then we pressed in all the seals, The left one is huge and does not have a shoulder to press it against. We measured the old one’s depth before taking it out and gradually tapped the new one home around it’s circumference till it measured the same all round.
Then we turned our attention to the diff lock actuator. We used the same Mercedes part we had used for the center diff. We had to drill another hole in the mounting plate as the back hole is in a different place. Not a big deal. We managed to salvage the original yoke and had to tap the Merc actuator shaft to mate up to it. Then we slapped it all together. There’s something magical about operating the diff lock on the bench. Maybe it’s the lack of driving the car.
With the diff done it’s time for the tricky bit: sub-frame bushings! We destroyed one last time remember?
So we replaced the rear diff mount. The old one came out on the press but the new one only needed a g-clamp and some grease to persuade it home. Fortunately we took pictures so we were able to orient it correctly; or at least the same.
We searched hi and low for a new shaft repair sleeve that was the right size and not made by SKF. You may remember the last one was distorted by it’s own installation tool. Finally settled on one from National but when we opened the box the instructions were from SKF! Anyway we were a lot more wary installing his one and managed to keep it staright by making our own installation tool out of a pipe clamp.
Then we pressed in all the seals, The left one is huge and does not have a shoulder to press it against. We measured the old one’s depth before taking it out and gradually tapped the new one home around it’s circumference till it measured the same all round.
Then we turned our attention to the diff lock actuator. We used the same Mercedes part we had used for the center diff. We had to drill another hole in the mounting plate as the back hole is in a different place. Not a big deal. We managed to salvage the original yoke and had to tap the Merc actuator shaft to mate up to it. Then we slapped it all together. There’s something magical about operating the diff lock on the bench. Maybe it’s the lack of driving the car.
With the diff done it’s time for the tricky bit: sub-frame bushings! We destroyed one last time remember?
#229
04-21-2017, 01:08 PM
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#230
04-27-2017, 08:47 AM
Well, the diff project is done, not without with some casualties. Read on……….
Our friend Carlos, a venerated old car genius, made a jig for the press to keep everything aligned while pressing in the notorious pair of small sub frame bushings. The large pair went in like you’d hope a bushing went in: easily.
Well that didn’t work and we destroyed one $50, only available from Germany bushing. Apparently there is always a 50% failure rate when pressing these in which is why we had a spare!
So we gave up with the jig and just used a bolt down the middle and lots and lots of patience. This took several attempts with each bushing as we eye-balled them intensely looking for any sign of them starting to twist.
Once they are happy they go in nicely, like you’d expect but the slightest mis-alignment causes them to rotate and if you persist, distort. It was a bit stressful as ruining one more would set us back a month. Once in we soon had the diff mounted in the sub-frame again.
Before we could reinstall the assembly in the car we still had one more bit of housekeeping to perform. One rather rough inner CV joint. Fortnately you can still get these from an OE supplier and we were able to work on it still attached to the car, though it was a little dark under there. Once cleaned the old CV joint came off with some elbow grease and a puller.
We assembled the new joint on the bench and packed it full of grease.
Then drove it home with a drift. They are surprisingly tight on the axle splines.
Then we were finally ready to throw this thing back in the car and tighten everything back up
Except for the lower control arm bushings off course, which have to be tightened with the car on the ground. Unless you have some BRAID wheels lying around that is. Don’t try this without proper wheels!
And of course, don’t forget to put some nice diff lube in it.
By then it was 1am so we waited till the next day to take it for a test drive
Before returning it to the stable with its friends.
Now the car needs an alignment and a tune. Still have some hesitation under load.
Our friend Carlos, a venerated old car genius, made a jig for the press to keep everything aligned while pressing in the notorious pair of small sub frame bushings. The large pair went in like you’d hope a bushing went in: easily.
Well that didn’t work and we destroyed one $50, only available from Germany bushing. Apparently there is always a 50% failure rate when pressing these in which is why we had a spare!
So we gave up with the jig and just used a bolt down the middle and lots and lots of patience. This took several attempts with each bushing as we eye-balled them intensely looking for any sign of them starting to twist.
Once they are happy they go in nicely, like you’d expect but the slightest mis-alignment causes them to rotate and if you persist, distort. It was a bit stressful as ruining one more would set us back a month. Once in we soon had the diff mounted in the sub-frame again.
Before we could reinstall the assembly in the car we still had one more bit of housekeeping to perform. One rather rough inner CV joint. Fortnately you can still get these from an OE supplier and we were able to work on it still attached to the car, though it was a little dark under there. Once cleaned the old CV joint came off with some elbow grease and a puller.
We assembled the new joint on the bench and packed it full of grease.
Then drove it home with a drift. They are surprisingly tight on the axle splines.
Then we were finally ready to throw this thing back in the car and tighten everything back up
Except for the lower control arm bushings off course, which have to be tightened with the car on the ground. Unless you have some BRAID wheels lying around that is. Don’t try this without proper wheels!
And of course, don’t forget to put some nice diff lube in it.
By then it was 1am so we waited till the next day to take it for a test drive
Before returning it to the stable with its friends.
Now the car needs an alignment and a tune. Still have some hesitation under load.