Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
#1
05-17-2005, 11:36 PM
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lotsa places, currently Metro D.C., USA
Posts: 13,574
Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
Was searching for some vid of the old "Group B" Rally cars and ran across this:
The beginning of Group B
Rally cars before the Group B era were, for the most part, rear-wheel-drive with about 250 horsepower, because any more power merely resulted in wheelspin. The two classes at the time were Group 2 and the more popular Group 4. The rules for Group 4 mandated a minimum production run of 400 copies of a car to meet homologation requirements, in order to encourage the manufacturers to use mass-produced cars. Some of the more famous rally cars from this period were the Lancia Stratos, the Fiat 131 Abarth, and the Porsche 911. (Click here if you want to know more about rallying before Group B.)
However, in 1979, FISA (Fédération Internationale du Sport Automobile, the sanctioning body for rallying) legalized all-wheel-drive for rallying. The manufacturers involved in rallying at the time considered four-wheel-drive too heavy and complex to be successful. They were all proven wrong when Audi launched its new Quattro in 1980, and announced its intention to use the 1980 and 1981 seasons as development years. The full potential of four-wheel-drive was realized when Audi pilot Hannu Mikkola used a Quattro as a course opening vehicle for one rally. Had Mikkola been entered, he would have won by nine minutes!
When the Quattro entered (and won) its first rally, the 1980 Janner rally in Austria, most of the other manufacturers in rallying realized the two-wheel-drive era of rallying had come to an end. Audi continued its development during the 1981 season, winning several rounds of the WRC, including the San Remo rally, which was an historic event because it was the first ever international rally won by a woman, Michèle Mouton. 1982 firmly established Audi as the team to beat, although Mouton narrowly lost the driver's crown to Opel rival Walter Röhrl. The 1983 season saw the creation of Groups A and B, and the first real Group B car arrived on the scene - the Lancia 037 Monte Carlo. Audi's first major rival had arrived.
The evolution of Group B
The 037 was different from the Quattro in several key respects - it was supercharged instead of turbocharged, and it still had rear-wheel-drive, due to Lancia's uncertainty about the potential of four-wheel-drive. It was, however, a Group B rally car (the Quattro was still built to the Group 4 specifications), and the new Group B class only required 200 copies of a car for homologation. The Group B rally teams could also produce "evolution" versions of their cars - and only twenty copies would be required! Group B also had minimal weight restrictions, plus the use of high-tech materials was permitted in the construction of the cars. These elements, plus manufacturers with unlimited resources, allowed Group B to evolve extremely quickly. The cars' performance levels increased at a rapid pace.
The new 037 was instantly at a disadvantage due to its lack of four-wheel-drive. Four-wheel-drive allowed Audi to run with a lot more power, due to the increased traction. Four-wheel-drive also proved to be much gentler on the tires, so Audi could run much softer compounds and further increase its traction. However, the Quattro had a number of flaws which allowed the 037 to win the Manufacturer's title in 1983: the Quattro was unreliable, it was clumsy and unwieldy to drive, and its front-engine, monocoque chassis was soon rendered obsolete by the mid-engine, space frame design of the Peugeot 205 T16, the new king of the hill once it arrived at the Tour de Corse rally in 1984.
The 205 T16's pace in Corsica shocked the rally community. Peugeot had built a strong team, with Ari Vatanen as the driver and Jean Todt (now the manager of the Ferrari F1 team) running the rally program. Vatanen crashed out of the Corsican rally, but went on to give the 205 its first win at the 1000 Lakes rally in Finland later that year. By this time, Audi had introduced its Sport Quattro, while the 037 was already showing its age. Peugeot looked set to walk away with the 1985 titles after an impressive year of preparation during 1984.
Peugeot did dominate most of the 1985 season, but things didn't go according to plan. Peugeot lost Ari Vatanen in a near-fatal crash in Argentina, but his teammate Timo Salonen took up the challenge and brought both titles to Peugeot. However, the 1985 RAC rally saw a whole pack of new challengers hungry to challenge Peugeot's dominance. Lancia debuted its new Delta S4, which was supercharged and turbocharged, Ford unveiled the RS200, Austin-Metro launched its new Metro 6R4, Audi entered its radical S1 Quattro, and Peugeot countered the newcomers with the 205 T16 Evolution 2. Lancia's new S4 came away with first and second places; by this point, wings had to be added to the cars to keep them on the road.
The end of Group B
The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986.
Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out.
Rallying after Group B
Rallying after Group B looks a bit different. The replacement cars, the Group A and WRC classes, are getting close to the speeds of the Group B cars, but they aren't quite there yet. One only has to look at the fastest times up Pike's Peak for a comparison between the speed differences of the Group A & B cars. But the modern rally cars are very spectacular and exciting to watch. Modern rally drivers are among the best drivers in the world. Plus, rallying today has more factory teams already participating or planning entries in the WRC.
Was it right to ban the Group B cars? Personally, I think so. If FISA had done a better job of regulating the cars, then maybe the Group B cars could have stayed. But since FISA focused the majority of their attention on F1, they didn't realize how fast the Group B cars had become; it took an accident like Toivonen's to get FISA's attention. The Group B cars had reached the point where they belonged on a racetrack, not on a rally stage. The cars were so fast that a driver's eyes didn't have time to adjust their focus properly between corners. Group B lived a short, but very interesting, life.
Click HERE to visit the photo gallery.
Group B vs. WRC
The beginning of Group B
Rally cars before the Group B era were, for the most part, rear-wheel-drive with about 250 horsepower, because any more power merely resulted in wheelspin. The two classes at the time were Group 2 and the more popular Group 4. The rules for Group 4 mandated a minimum production run of 400 copies of a car to meet homologation requirements, in order to encourage the manufacturers to use mass-produced cars. Some of the more famous rally cars from this period were the Lancia Stratos, the Fiat 131 Abarth, and the Porsche 911. (Click here if you want to know more about rallying before Group B.)
However, in 1979, FISA (Fédération Internationale du Sport Automobile, the sanctioning body for rallying) legalized all-wheel-drive for rallying. The manufacturers involved in rallying at the time considered four-wheel-drive too heavy and complex to be successful. They were all proven wrong when Audi launched its new Quattro in 1980, and announced its intention to use the 1980 and 1981 seasons as development years. The full potential of four-wheel-drive was realized when Audi pilot Hannu Mikkola used a Quattro as a course opening vehicle for one rally. Had Mikkola been entered, he would have won by nine minutes!
When the Quattro entered (and won) its first rally, the 1980 Janner rally in Austria, most of the other manufacturers in rallying realized the two-wheel-drive era of rallying had come to an end. Audi continued its development during the 1981 season, winning several rounds of the WRC, including the San Remo rally, which was an historic event because it was the first ever international rally won by a woman, Michèle Mouton. 1982 firmly established Audi as the team to beat, although Mouton narrowly lost the driver's crown to Opel rival Walter Röhrl. The 1983 season saw the creation of Groups A and B, and the first real Group B car arrived on the scene - the Lancia 037 Monte Carlo. Audi's first major rival had arrived.
The evolution of Group B
The 037 was different from the Quattro in several key respects - it was supercharged instead of turbocharged, and it still had rear-wheel-drive, due to Lancia's uncertainty about the potential of four-wheel-drive. It was, however, a Group B rally car (the Quattro was still built to the Group 4 specifications), and the new Group B class only required 200 copies of a car for homologation. The Group B rally teams could also produce "evolution" versions of their cars - and only twenty copies would be required! Group B also had minimal weight restrictions, plus the use of high-tech materials was permitted in the construction of the cars. These elements, plus manufacturers with unlimited resources, allowed Group B to evolve extremely quickly. The cars' performance levels increased at a rapid pace.
The new 037 was instantly at a disadvantage due to its lack of four-wheel-drive. Four-wheel-drive allowed Audi to run with a lot more power, due to the increased traction. Four-wheel-drive also proved to be much gentler on the tires, so Audi could run much softer compounds and further increase its traction. However, the Quattro had a number of flaws which allowed the 037 to win the Manufacturer's title in 1983: the Quattro was unreliable, it was clumsy and unwieldy to drive, and its front-engine, monocoque chassis was soon rendered obsolete by the mid-engine, space frame design of the Peugeot 205 T16, the new king of the hill once it arrived at the Tour de Corse rally in 1984.
The 205 T16's pace in Corsica shocked the rally community. Peugeot had built a strong team, with Ari Vatanen as the driver and Jean Todt (now the manager of the Ferrari F1 team) running the rally program. Vatanen crashed out of the Corsican rally, but went on to give the 205 its first win at the 1000 Lakes rally in Finland later that year. By this time, Audi had introduced its Sport Quattro, while the 037 was already showing its age. Peugeot looked set to walk away with the 1985 titles after an impressive year of preparation during 1984.
Peugeot did dominate most of the 1985 season, but things didn't go according to plan. Peugeot lost Ari Vatanen in a near-fatal crash in Argentina, but his teammate Timo Salonen took up the challenge and brought both titles to Peugeot. However, the 1985 RAC rally saw a whole pack of new challengers hungry to challenge Peugeot's dominance. Lancia debuted its new Delta S4, which was supercharged and turbocharged, Ford unveiled the RS200, Austin-Metro launched its new Metro 6R4, Audi entered its radical S1 Quattro, and Peugeot countered the newcomers with the 205 T16 Evolution 2. Lancia's new S4 came away with first and second places; by this point, wings had to be added to the cars to keep them on the road.
The end of Group B
The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986.
Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out.
Rallying after Group B
Rallying after Group B looks a bit different. The replacement cars, the Group A and WRC classes, are getting close to the speeds of the Group B cars, but they aren't quite there yet. One only has to look at the fastest times up Pike's Peak for a comparison between the speed differences of the Group A & B cars. But the modern rally cars are very spectacular and exciting to watch. Modern rally drivers are among the best drivers in the world. Plus, rallying today has more factory teams already participating or planning entries in the WRC.
Was it right to ban the Group B cars? Personally, I think so. If FISA had done a better job of regulating the cars, then maybe the Group B cars could have stayed. But since FISA focused the majority of their attention on F1, they didn't realize how fast the Group B cars had become; it took an accident like Toivonen's to get FISA's attention. The Group B cars had reached the point where they belonged on a racetrack, not on a rally stage. The cars were so fast that a driver's eyes didn't have time to adjust their focus properly between corners. Group B lived a short, but very interesting, life.
Click HERE to visit the photo gallery.
Group B vs. WRC
#2
05-18-2005, 06:25 PM
RE: Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
Thanks for the post. I used to watch some of the group b races...I think espn or speed or some other cable channel used to carry a lot of the races...those cars were, in a work Ridiculous!
#4
05-22-2005, 03:21 PM
RE: Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
AWD thanks for the information. I wish I could find a video clip in wav formay but I havent come across anything yet
#7
07-15-2005, 01:02 PM
RE: Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
ORIGINAL: bentframe
i still would love to see a group b rally...if anyone knows where to find one, shoot me a pm (it'll be months before i remember to check this forum again)
i still would love to see a group b rally...if anyone knows where to find one, shoot me a pm (it'll be months before i remember to check this forum again)
I'm not sure what the designated group is called now, I think they are just known as WRC cars (world Rally Championship). They are 2.0 Liter, turbo, awd cars, making about 300hp.
I think Audi pulled out of competition when the group B spec got scrubed and concentrated on other forms of racing (sports car/ Le Mans)...AWD might know for sure.
#8
07-15-2005, 11:32 PM
RE: Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
yea, sorry for the confusion...i meant to say, if anyone knows where to find a group b rally video, let me know...i watch the wrc races as often as i can, but i've never seen these group b races ever...i'm a young'un 
#9
07-15-2005, 11:47 PM
RE: Gruppe B (The *Killer B's story)
My neighbor up the road races SCCA ralley for years. He has a bunch of videos on VHS of the gouppe B's. I believe the one they staged a grouppe B up against it's stock counter part. Holy SH^& those things were fast. I can't find a video clip anywhere of them, but they were banned a while ago so before the whole internet thing.