Which one should be used on the V6 12V 2.8L
just for future which would be more efective
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/product/engine_controls/superchargers/index.asp
M45 power consumption
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/images/products/M45power.gif
M62 Power consumption
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/images/products/M62power.gif

some my calculations:
then per 2 revolution of engine the amount of air is 2.8L then the
1 bar = 14.5037738 psi
to make a 7 psi boost it would require about 0.5bar then the SC will require to produce 4.2L per 2 rev of the engine.
so for M45 4.2/0.75 is 1:2.8
so for M62 4.2/1.00 is 1:2.1
so if engine is spinning at 6500 then SC m45 has to spin at 18200RPM for M62 it has to spin at 13650 RPM
so M62 will consume 22HP and M45 will consume >20HP
but if to use even biger one then
like M90 4.2/1.5 is 1:1.4 equal to 9100RPM of SC meaning 22HP consumption.

But if I get M90 then I have a lot of boost level left for improvment. up to about 20PSI of boost can be build on it.

My question is should I even bother of integrating one into the car and trying to use one.
and another question is which one to chose. I mean with M45 there be like 4 psi, M62 is 7 boost, and M90 is about 20psi.

I know I spoke a lot, but I ask for your humble opinion :D

Nobody has any idea what da hell i'm talking about.

I do,

and your not going to like my answer.

there are quite a few 12v s/c's out there.

the current one is a m45 and it does not make the boost nessisary to probide psi to the engine.

your' going to have to look at the m62

another place to look is

www.superchargedaudi.com

tnx for the website. and as by my calculations on M62 people get 8psi tops. [as I read]. I calculated about 7psi but if you take into the acount heat desepation and intake restriction gets to like 8-9psi.
I got some desines in mind to get a intercooler in. and I hope to get M90 couse well I will be able to get more boost. But what M62 performence gets might be enough for a simple guy/teen like me.
+60HP from M62
More opinions would be nice.

well on sc audi there is a 12v using an m45 and he's not getting the results he thought. Head over an pm 4 rings he will help you with the calculations.

The g3 by pes for the 3.0 30v an m62 is 10 psi at max rpm. more than that they say you need to rebuild the bottom end of the 3.0.

Sadly for 2.8 12v's there is not a whole bunch of options. Custom s/c is about it. at the very least you need a m62. I think m90 is and might be overkill for the engine. my guess is you'll hit that spot where it takes more horsepower to create horsepower and the 12v does not have it to begin with.

like i said head over to s/c audi pm 4 rings. and ask for links of s/c 12v's

tnx. I was thinking of doing coustom SC. on power thing. how much M62 takes to create X psi it will take M90 same amout of power to create X psi. it is an overkill. if use M90 it will work on like 60% of its actual potential. but it will crate less heat. M62 like 120 delta. M90 like 100 delta. and M90 will live longer.
any more opinions?

Well I have desided M62 with 100% in use or M90 with 60-70% in use.
the problem is that if I go with M90 I will have to make a coustem pully for it. and for M62 I will be able to use regular pully for it.

Cool keep us uptodate

New Update, I wana make a sleeper, a heavy sleeper. for that I have to find a upgrate for my tranny, which is weak, probably will go with something like Level 10 (L10.com). then I will have to find/make Variator and buy M90 SC. then create coustem mounts and buy SMT 7. using SMT7 piggy back ECU then connect SMT7 to the Variator, I believe its called CVS or something (I will find/build it). Then using Variator I will be able to control Boost by changing Ratio of cranck pully to the SC pully with a push of the buton. SMT7 will also provide extra fuel and a bit diferent matrix. With this setup, all you will see is an extra pully at the bottom, an intercooler, and thats it. also this setup will give me boost control from 0psi to 25psi.
Its all in my mind. I will write, develop, and sell.
By the way any one with V6 wana be mine giny pig? all it will cost you is a parts, and food for me.
it will develop not now but over summer.
keep me posted.

ORIGINAL: kakarot

New Update, I wana make a sleeper, a heavy sleeper. for that I have to find a upgrate for my tranny, which is weak, probably will go with something like Level 10 (L10.com). then I will have to find/make Variator and buy M90 SC. then create coustem mounts and buy SMT 7. using SMT7 piggy back ECU then connect SMT7 to the Variator, I believe its called CVS or something (I will find/build it). Then using Variator I will be able to control Boost by changing Ratio of cranck pully to the SC pully with a push of the buton. SMT7 will also provide extra fuel and a bit diferent matrix. With this setup, all you will see is an extra pully at the bottom, an intercooler, and thats it. also this setup will give me boost control from 0psi to 25psi.
Its all in my mind. I will write, develop, and sell.
By the way any one with V6 wana be mine giny pig? all it will cost you is a parts, and food for me.
it will develop not now but over summer.
keep me posted.


sounds awesome, have fun

I also wana program the variator to act as boost increase. so like on the turbo. at the begining of the RPM little boost then increase as RPM increase.
that means when like taking it slow the SC will not take too much power for it self, then as you incerase RPM more boost build but more power taking.
smart, ahh.
so at low RPM you have low output then increases and also it would be safer.
I'm thinking of puting at low RPM like 1-5 psi and at hight 7-12psi. so the curve of power is a very steep one. pushing to like 300 -350 HP at full throtle and close to stock at idle.
also switchible mods from eco, which would be a bit eco that stock making about 120-150HP then normal 160-190HP then race 200-250HP then Pro-race 260-300 then @ss woping 310-350HP
And
whoever will forge internals and lower compresion ratio will have DITSDA (Dead in the seat during acceleration) 360-450HP and whoever craeasy enough will have Full which is 460-480HP and "Aub Kraft" will have 460-500HP pushing SC to produce about 30PSI. and not forget intercooler which will add extra ponies. :D

I'll be your 12v guinea pig, if you fly out to Oregon, or let me crash on your couch while you work on it...;)

Let me know when you have it planned out, I'm intrigued by a 12v SC option... I was previously thinking about swapping a 30v ans going SC on that, but if this works out like you say... ----> :)

Nate

First, I will have to choose a variator type and desighn. I have three choises, constant as direct no boost control, then step variator goes by like diferent levels of power output, or constant variator wich will give me constant boost control.
its all in my mind.
if you want something like my design but cheap, with M62 blower I will be glad to desighn and make.
the diference is that M62 tops at 8psi after that you have to overdrive it which is bad. and if use intercooler it will drop to like 6 or 7 psi.

Nate074 what car do you have?

hey would you be interested in making an M90 for a 30v 3.0 ?? Or are you staying with the 12v 2.8? I am looking for a less expensive alternative to the 5300 pes s/c with more potiential.

ye sure, it will fit any V6 engine, not turbo. You wont even see it.
I'm guesing on diferent types of kits. they seperate into groups of boost levels.
1. already set boost level on like 5 psi 7 psi 10psi 15 psi 20 psi 25 psi 30psi and maybe 35 psi
2. variable boost level 3-10psi 5-13 psi 10-15psi 15-20psi etc...

I think I will make default kit 1. at 7 psi.
additionals
Variator
optionals:
Intercooler
full set of pulles

The numbers are exaples.

But defenatly if its finished it wont cost 5300 buks. thats just silly. its easier to sell your car, add that money and buy S# car or even RS#

As I predict The cost should start at like 1500 buks or even less. and top at like 3500 buks with all options. I dont know If I will include piggy back, couse I'm not going to chip. but defenatly will work on the matrix for piggy back, maybe injectors too.

My SC is monted on the engine block not engine head.

I gues when I finish school, which is in a month, I will start actually puting it together.

got any pics of the project yet? got any leads for a company making forged pistons, and/or rods for an a4 v6?? possibly a crank, maybe just cryo treaded crank would be fine. Ps i only know of a 2-wheel dyno up here in alaska but would love to find an awd dyno if it weren't to far into canada. anyone know of any?

Nope not yet, I will start during summer.
I hope I will find leads on forged pistons and valves, and maybe a spacer to decrease the compresion ratio.

First finish school, get acepted into college.
Second work on the blower project and my guitar project.

quiqk question. would you like to serpanten belt to fell or variator?
facts:
it is easy to replace a serpanten belt. but more expensive.
and variator if fails then its a bit harder to replace. but cheaper.
================================================== =================
second question:
would you like controling boost on fly [while reving]
or you would like to like switch at idle?
================================================== =================
third question:
what boost levels whould you like?
and levels to switch between?
note: dont make it too big of a diference.
================================================== =================
fourth question:
would you like running bifueled or dual fuel system or monofuel?
note: bifueled system, running on both fuels, like propane and gasoline. dual runing one or another. monofueled only first or second fuel.
================================================== =================


progress:
thout of two types of variators. one that can damage serpanten belt ar switching between. and second that damages it self when switched.
I will develop two types of kits. one that uses M90 , and second that uses M62. both will come with IC as an option. Cryon system utilization optional, also anti drowning system w/side afect. also variator optional only for M90. set of pullies optional.
I think M90 will start at like 1500-2000 and M62 will start at like 1000-1600 buks.

new update, I beleve if I use no variator, a bypass valve can be used as a boost control.
http://www.automotive.eaton.com/images/products/M90power.gif
the problem is some power will be lost in the proces.

And back to the variator,
I calulate and design a variator with right now 3 speeds.
when runing on stock pulley that will be provided, you will be able to switch between 2-3 psi which is kind of switch.
second speed will be running on 93 octane and about 6-9 psi.
third speed will be running on race fuel or propane/CNG and about 10-15psi.

and you will be have a extra pulley just that you could run also 3 speeds of 6-9psi, 10-15psi and 15-20psi.
and for crazy bastarts you will have another pully running same 3 speeds of 10-15psi, 15-20psi, and 22-30psi

also for people who will just want a constant boost without wories about variator or longlife you will have no variator. and direct drive.

also for cheap kit you will have a M62 blower w/ direct drive making same or similar numbers as PES G2 or G3 :-(

note the numbers are samples, acual values will vary with your engine desplacement, and of absents/presents of IC and of style of intake manifold. :-)

I got a q. where is this s/c gonna sit, cause you said you want to keep your kit hidden. That would be ok with me but would it not be easier to set her on top like the pes is isn't that were a roots type belongs? I know that on my dads 350z vortech (centrifical type) kit he has a serpanten belt the spin with the oem system but on the other end of that gear is a cog type gear of which drives his super charger which would be fine by me. Would that be considered variator. I think so.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=26452&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=3211 350z system

2.On the go boost would be nice, but dot have to have, ps i would like to boost gradually to max not wam bam good bye quattro.

3. Well i dont have forged internals whats a good level to start with?5-7psi?

4. Probably runing mono btw here in ak 90 oct is premium so i gotta watch the mix.

What all would your kit include, say i want to start with making the power a pes kit does but room to upgrade with an m90. If i can find a place the make forged rod and pistons maybe bump up the psi to 12-15

Okey, I will summrise.
Okey, the PES kit dsadvantages: 1. No possible way to put IC in there without screwing your budget. 2. The M62 Maxes out at 8 Psi and then have to be overdriven which shortens its life. 2. its on top and heat goes to top, heating up he SC and decreasing eficiency. 3. Cost
Advntges: Its easy to change and check oil.

Then mine: disadvntages: 1. It would be hard to show off the car locking like stock. 2. I have no tuning possibilites, so I will try to provide basic Matrix for fuel and Ignton to my best ablity. (I might make a promotion, If person tunes his car he could sell the values back to me for a price). 3. I can only start actuall planing this summer or when becomes warm enough. 4. hard to check oil. 5. I will only provide with posible 3 speed variator [off, on, race fuel]

Advantages: 1. can use IC making more boost, and increasing efficiency, I guess extra 10-30HP. 2. Try to designe an alternative fuell system for the kit so that you could run propane or methane, they are like race fuel but beter 110 to 140 octane, clener and healthier. 3. The variators drive would be the weakest point and it would require changing, so the repair kit would cost like 10-30 buks, easily done. about 0.5-1.5 hours of work. 4. Varitor goes all you lose is boost no damage to the SC or Engine. 5. If the SC oil is same as Engine oil then it would be maintainance free. 6. the kit will provide same reliability as PES.

Note: the variator wont be like 1 second you want power next you dont but it would be like wana race, click click and you taking off. or your gramma in town, and you love your gramma, click click and you are ver near stock power. or you hate your gramm click clck and you are a speed demon.
For the stedy increase of boost I chose to use DV.
Its coming up soon so wait and dont kill your self.

PS I will write some more later.

oh ye, why I went with the root type instead the others like centrifugal.
1. The efficiency, the root type is more efficient.
2. its the shape I like and need.
3. ah forget the others.
================================================== =====
well right now I'm it the middle of putting together the kit in my mind.
I had idaes, many of them, and well I desided like that.
you will have 3 to max of maybe 6 speeds. each speed will have a dimier so like you switch between them. and each speed will corespond with its boost level. You wont have like increase by 1 psi but more likly by 3-6 psi. so lets say on 2.8 engine you will have 3,7,13psi levels.
On the matter of tuning the Stand alone or more likly piggy back will have controle over it. I will offcouse provide with the basic one, then as I staited before like person actually tunes it, I will pay to get his map, legally ofcouse.
I havent figured out how to make the boost go up and down smothly, but I will get it eventually. I think I will be able to use Piggy to overide some manual controles, so it would be hasle less.
================================================== ====
The instalation could be pain in the ass, like 6 hours to install, I will make it as Plug and Play as posible. :-)

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Catalogs/AB05_CustomOrderAuto.pdf

Wiseco will make custom pistons.

http://www.pauter.com/billet_rods.htm

Custom Rods by Pauter they do other things for vw's.

http://www.faliconcranks.com/cw-list.htm

Falicon does custom crank work like lightening, knofe edging, and cryo- treating.

dude its so cool. good job. SC that goes high, and pistons that go low. unlimited possibility.

well I finished school, I will do SAT and math B regents and I'm done. and the size, fiting, designe starts. Mhehehehhehehehehehehe
:D

well did some calculating and thats what I got:
on 2.8L 11.6psi 8psi 5psi
on 3.0L 10psi 6.6psi 3.8psi
on 3.2L 8.2psi 5.3psi 2.6psi

and the kit levels on simulator will be :350HP, 300HP, 262HP. thats on 2.8 is increase of 100%, 70%, 50%. also do not forget Intercooler thats extra plus. and thats at 7000RPM.
well the basics: there is 3 values, high, norm, low.
well I can also make it more speeds but I see no point of that, maybe 4 speeds that be high, norm, low, lowerer. but again no point of that.

and again, the speeds can be higher. and I believe safely at 7000RPM would be 19.5psi that would be 450HP.
and do not forget that usually the top point is at 5500 RPM and with SC it will move further, so lets guess that it would be at 6000RPM then the boost can go high as 25psi and that would bring the SC same 450HP.

and the kit will suport the cryon system, BUT not Nitro, I do not want to burn holes in engine. However If you want to put nitro then be my guess.

Well try making that numbers on PES kit without burning the SC out.
HEhehehehhehehehehehhehe.
I think the RS4/6 will have a compatition from its lower budies.

Thanks to killervenom, now engines can be rebuilded and would be able to run more boost. and initialize full potential of the future kit.

on the note of boost, the kit will suport the propane and CNG, and you would be able to run more boost on stock.
if you have no idea what da hell is propane and CNG I will tell you.:: propane is high octane fuel, the octane value of it is around 110, and CNG is same but diferent its value is 130octane. they are like race fuel but instead of the liquid form they are inserted into engine in the gas form. the advantage of this is that it blends better with air making the AF mix way more stable and presice. On the chemical baiscs, propane has 3 carbon and 8 hydrogen molecules, the CNG has 1 carbon and 4 hydrogen molecues. the Ethane or the stuff they add to the gasoline to make it race fuel has 2 carbon and 6 hydrogen, and thats puts it in the midle of Propane and CNG. however gasoline molecule is around 7 or 8 carbon and 16 or 18 hydrogens.
basicly it ends up to cleaner burn, less polution, long life, less heat, high octane. But what we want is high octane. so that we could run a lot of boost. well see this, the CNG neads to have compresion ration of 15:1 and propane needs 13.5:1. our engines is 10.5:1 that makes a lot of room for mistake or flukes in tuning, less detanation or knoking, less heat and that makes you not to burn your engine through.
Oh the main disadvantage, the tank is presurised to cary this fuels, and the eficiency of the volume to the MPG is not as good as gasolines, that means instead of having 16galons of fuel you can have only 8 galons on CNG and 14Galons on propane. and tanks are heavy. imagine having 50KG bag of potatoes in your trunk all the time. so its only for people who willing. ah another disadvantage if runing the kit right without going too reach the propane looses about 5% power and CNG about 7-10% of total power. and they are reinstated with the boost.

The kit will alow you to run two fuels one or another so that if you run out of one you use another. and thats another advantage.


More coming soon.......

hey kakarot regents??? mathb ?? you live in ny right and the name is that DBZ?? anywho it sounds like your a bright kid why no pre calc or calc or even ap calc etc...math b is 11th grade isnt it??? or tenth if honors i believe at least in my school

good luck with college and the kit

peace out

Dude, I took it to just get advance regents deploma. I finished AP calculus when I was a junior. I just never before took it before calculus. and thanks to physics, I know some crap of air, liquid denamics. and power transfering loses are some.

and Yes KAKAROT is from DBZ I'm a big fan of that type of a cartoon. where is kiling, blood, superpowers......., like new cartoon Naruto. And I'm fan of SG1, SGA, Batelstar Galactica, Star treck and ofcouse Star wars.
Anywho, I finishing school at well day after tomorow. And SAT was crappy, math easi, at english I was runing out of time a bit. and the Essay was as easy as hell, like for 9th grade.

any way soon I will need people with diferent type of engine to be my giny pigs, becouse of diferent style of the head, the fan (some models is powered by belt the half), and the AC.
It may be required to lose the fan powered by belt.

I really dont know if I should post pictures of it before it comes out. so I will hold them a bit more. or not.

the whole system is almost complit, in virtual reality. NOT TO SCALE. and the hard part comes, parts. and the actual price, and tuning which I will do scientificaly.

But besicaly the kit will include evrything to be instaled like plug & play. But the thing is it will have to be instaled from the bottom. which is kind of dirty.

What I will requre from you as a coustomer: the code of the engine, what heads you have 12V or 30V, displacement, and what level of output you planing(realistic). and maybe some more.
the options whould be, Pigyback, Intercooler, repair kit, clutch update, ATF update, injectors, pistons, etc...

The work you will have to do: Instalation (duh), people neer me would just come to me and I will instal, but that person will have to buy me deaner.
the tube cuting, the tubes for air will have to be cuted under your requirnments, for each model diferntly.
and maybe some more simple stuff.

Well, I thought about the kit again, and came up with a problem, mostly asociated with space. Unless coustomer wana lose the AC and gain the sleak sleeper, the kit is discontinued. However coustomer if wana can get it, when I'm finished, he can use 60 AC= windows down and going more that 60MPH.

New thing: The kit is continued in development, still will have all the same options and numbers, but now its gona be placed on top. BUT its not gona be made like PES kit where SC sits right on top of the manifold, couse it would be called stiling. The kit still would be able to switch speeds, use Crayon, have IC. But now there is no worry of drowning.
The kit still gona use the M90. There is another place where I might be able to squase the whole contraption.
This is what it could have been if no space was a problem.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/2099000-2099999/2099728_41_full.jpg

I'd personally would rather not lose my a/c. Also i love the idea of the s/c on top of the motor, and stealing would be to buy his and copy the exact manifold and use a m62, all you have to do is design the adapter plate differently and not to mention you have a m90 so that would make the kit completely different anyways. a cool thing to do is laser etch the adapter plate with the your company logo or Supercharged, or even just M90. just a few ideas

If to use PES like manifold and adapt it to the M90, then the way to change the boost would be to change pulles. do you really want to do that.
And it would be easier just to take the whole manifold out with the bottom part and put SC there, but its still expensive becouse of coustom work.
and yes I do not want to lose AC, here in NY it becomes hot sometimes and I sweat really nasty. and besides I already charged my AC about 75% so no way I'm gona tough it.
my new idea is diferent. The PES kit that is on top of the motor is expensive, couse coustom manifold. so no, i'm not gona do like them.
my idea is to be on the side of the engine, its lower and M90 will definatly fit.

The In and Out IC tubes will run just benith it so it actually cute, the huge cone filter including MAF sensor would be instead the airbox. I will try to make a dummy kit soon, as soon it becomes warm oustise, so lets wait and see.

The diference: M90 is the same length as M62 SC however M90 is a bit wider and higher, not by much.

The base Idea of my kit would be: power on the buck. You will get as much power as I can provide for as little as I can to sell. cheap. Imagine having N02 bottle in your car and be able to use it all the time and unlimited quantaty. Ye sound good, well thats what I'm trying to do.

ooohhhhhhhhhhh, staying home makes it a bit longer, however I will do it up to scale.

Okey I think I found all the places for the parts and their construction, now gona draw it.

Cool, new development, I came to the point where I would be able to split the system into two.

I have decided I would develop and sell two types of variators.

The STandart would be 3 level system as I wrote before.

But the advance would be a continuees where Boost can be set preciesly by pushing a button. It will have more boost or less boost.

The advance systme is trually advance, it has longer life and probably easier to service.

so what do you think?

ah both of them have a little weak point, but for ~10buks the systm would be able to be back online.
service:
oil check whenever you change oil or check it.
variator service, when it dies or I think 50K miles with dayly driving and floring at least ones a day at moderate boost == 1h and ~10buks + s/h
for best long life change oil in the SC by the manufacturer specs. I think it 30K or 60K miles, Need to find that too.

Of as an extra, the SC will have a looking glass where you would be able to check oil whthout a problem. Need a glass company, soon to be.

I will provide free matrixes, but you will have to buy piggyback or Stand alone EFI.
I will try to make contacs with perfect power or stuff and get good cheap stuff.

I think SMT6 is 100 or 200 buks and SMT7 is like 200 or 300 buks or so.

have taken a look under the hood of an a4 b5,or b6 yet for mounting ideas

the V6 2.8 and 2.6 on all audies with 12V are almost the same. so by making it onto my engine all engines automatically will be able to use it.
but before that can happen I will try to conferm it, so that less fuss be made.

Tum tum TUMMMMMMMM,


I will use gen 4 SC.

price will start from 2000 and up to 3000 with all the options.
still less that PES

A little update and a peace of mind.
I'm finally working so I would have cash for SC.
as I was thinking the M90 is an overkill. however it will provide a lot of boost nicely.
the chaper way is to apply a system that I desine onto an M62 where boost will spike around 2000 to 5000 then go down. from 15 down to 9 @6500 and 7 @ 7000

the spike boost can be easily be lowered. I think that stock engine wont be able to handle more boost that 10psi.

LEt me know what you think.

PS the never 4 gen supergarger is a bit better it can spin max at 16000RPM.

so it changes the boost.
maximum 11psi @ 7000RPM
around 340HP
13psi @ 6500
15.5 @ 6000
18.2 @ 5500

this is for an updated engine.

you migh wander why. I answer. as you can see the boost moves inversaly to the RPM. where boost rises as RPM drops.
that provides a nice curve of HP around 340HP over that interval. the torque drops very insignificantly.
while on M90 supercharger a full 18 psi can be seen on the whole interval.
let me calculate for M90 maximum
19 @7000
around 445HP to 450HP
21.9 @ 6500
24.7 @ 6000
28.7 @ 5500
with just a bit of overdrive like couple tens of RPM the HP can shoot 450 no prob.

this is for 2.8 the only diference between this engine and 3 or 3.2 that boost but HP would be similar.

let me know what you think.

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1162

have you looked into these s/c's
what are your thoughts of them, they say there more effecient

Thank you I will look into them
hmm, I will search other that Eton.
and try to find the best for this aplication.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=WIP-WSC-100AXB
heres a good price i believe
which size would we go with any way?
i figure its only 100 bux more than the w75ax
and puts out 165 more cfm i think that would be one bad mother in our car.

VS
Eaton http://www.capa.com.au/prices_eaton.htm
not sure if thats a good deal on a new eaton or not but just did a little searching

well, the Eaton M90 is 1.5L while M62 is 1.0L. the W75 is a 1.2 and W100 is a 1.6L.
the W75 is a actually the best fit. with most of the posibilities. still be abiling to boost high.

the price is a bit high, so I will try to connect with them.to get better blue print and posibly better price.
the eaton on capa is twice the price that they ofered me directly from them.

this is very interesting if u looking for a test subject im your person... i have a 99.5 A4 2.8 V6

well ye soon probably or later. first I need to get evrything together. then I will make some kits as tests with a lot of off. like 50% off.

PapiChuloNica what is your engine code?

im very new to audi as this is my first german car...(i come from Hondas) where can i find my engine code?? so i can tell u

Tell us what model and size motor and im sure we can tell you

i have 99.5 A4 2.8 V6 (manual) Quatro as well

Probably APR or AZR

I'm doing for AFC as first, then other models.
these engines are very similar to each other, exept 12V and 30V diferent heads.

i have mailed a letter to whoophle or something let see what they can offer.

i believe its whipple, are you inquiring about just the w75 or both w75 and w100. I would think it would/could be wise to have options but for starters i guess just feel out the smaller one and see what it brings to the table power wise. I think these twin screw s/c are more effecient and better priced. Did u email them or write a paper letter to mail them? Email response would be faster but writing a professional letter would get you noticed on a more serious level i would think, anyway blah blah blah i know. Is this s/c gonna change your plans of were to stuff it or how it will operate?

after reading lots and lots of junk mail, all is needed is an idae to put on paper. The format is all the same, I use left style.
I wrote them a letter couse its much easier and looks and feels more profesional.
I inquarry for both SC's. the placment and all other options are the same.
but becouse it is much simplier design.

here is some comparison Eaton VS Whipple,
the W75 has about 3 turns, eaton has 1. 3 turns make more noise.
eaton uses a styilish inatke and outake that are bigger that whipple.
the whiiphle is more simple like squar intake and exaust.
W75 is 1.2L and 20,000 RMP M90 is 1.5L and 16,000RPM and M62 is 1.0L and 16,000RPM (MAX).
the W75 will provide the range that I look and W100 is a true overkill.
the pully is much simplier conector,
eaton uses a pin like system, which is much harder and stronger and produces less problems with balance,
whiplle uses 6 screw conector which much easier in my app, but can produce more problems with balance.

Please understand the Eficiency, the eaton is max efficiency is like 95% or so but W75 is 81%.
Efficiency is the proportion of how much power it takes to potential output.
the eaton is supirior, meaning it takes less power to push same amount of air.

What I can't see on there web site is readable blue print. there schematic is so bad quality so that I need better picture.

conclusion, the quality lies in Eaton, however in my app the simplicity takes a leap. so whiple has more votes for.

other:
to write a simple letter like this:
firts write your nake and adress.
second write address to whom
thirt write "To whom it may concern" or "Dear 'Ninkampup' "
forth wtite a short reason why they should read the rest and nothing like this "Read the rest or I will come and rip the spine and stick it up your @$$"
fives write the main and describtion in full
six write the points that you want and contact info
seven write "sincerly," ans scip 4 rows
eight write your name
nine sign in the space provided

easy peazy lemon squizy
with some practice anyone can do it.

i'm liking the sounds of it. Even though the eaton may be slightly more effecient the whipple has the ability to push more cfm, and has the ability for a much bigger rpm range 20,000 rpms means you can stay in the most effecient rpm range or just got to the top for a balls to the wall performance gain. The square desings should be a blessing for any kind of fabricating work, and hopefully the price will be right on to. are you planning on making the whole kit by hand or are you gonna draw up pieces and take it to a fab shop? anyway this is a great step forward.

admin@tjmmotorsport.com these people might now a little more about the internals we need for any audi engine they are part of http://www.audituning-usa.com/ which is Dahlback Racing USA. they have quite the rep. if you/ we need anthing else, or maybe even some helpful/useful info on our motors. Just figured i'd let you know.

actually, the W75 with its range is like M90 look I show you
the M90 pushes 1.5L/rev and at 16000 Rev
meaning 24000L
the W75 is 1.2L/rev and at 20000Rev
meaning 24000L
see they exactly the same
the W75 just goes faster.

the Stock ber bone V6 can hold max of 9PSI without blowing up.
with lower Compresion it can go even higher, OR
bear with me
alternative fuel like Propane, CNG, Alcholol, race fuel some.
I prefer Propane, 110-115octane RON. and USA is 105-110.
Chaep and reliable
also almost equal to the fuel tank capacity and can run so lean so lean 18:1 and still work well without detanation or burning any stuff. and keeping fresh air around.
its very clean, No carbon whats so ever. my dad was runing on one for over 10 years. engine was sparklin clean and no burn, exaust was white, not the gas but in the tube. spark plugs where so clean, not even funny. Consider it.

I give the whaphles a call in a week. if they dont answer my letter.

Okey I just got couple of ideas, But no call, Next Week, I simply call or email.

I estimate to produce one It take me like 5 days to do all.

or like 20 in a batch in 5 days.

this sucks. I want to do faster, I might have to get my self a warker. or at least a welder.

Whoo, ho, from other post, it came back,
WATER INJECTION
its as easy as going to the bathroom, and very similar.

I probably gona do one for my stock car and see how it goes.

What will be included in Bare bone kit, or basic:

SC,
Variator,
Tubes pre made, but will need to be cut for each diferent model. So A8, A6, and A4 all 2.8 12V same kit will go.
All mounting,
two way button,
Boost gauge (I think I will include with A pilar)
spark plugs (iradium, gap like instaead 44 be like 30-25)
Instruction/Video(maybe).
fuel and ignition map,

Optional:
Cryoun system or Nitro system,
Water injection,
IC Air to Air,
High boost pulleys,
Pigy back,

sounding pretty good its gona be a while until you get to the 3.0L 30v system though, right? all tubes, mounting hardware, ect.,ect. will have to be made for each style engine bay but this is progress in the right direction. do you need some photos to help with an 02 a4 3.0l 30v quattro 6-speed? i have a good camera so i can take some pics any time. when do you suppose you'll start the prototype build and testing?

ye thanks, can I have couple, posible without the plastic cover/shild. around the pesanger side.

email: kakarot1232001@yahoo.com

Half way there, soon my bably will burn some rubber like she suppose to do.
also I'm becoming hungry for some ricers.

okey dudes, I came to the point of thinking of tuning.
Becouse it sucks were the ECU is, it is very hard to piggy back, so I will try to think of a way, actually calculate.
but I cannt find one thing I need to know, thats what are the flow at what psi are the stock injectors.
people who knows, this would help.

I repeat,
flow of injectors????

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2102163612

i know, i know but i finally got some pics for ya. how's the prototype going? you got it mocked up in your car yet mounting?, belts? come on we wanna hear an update.... actually we wanna "SEE" an update. pics are worth a thousand words

Cool, basically same desighn as in my car, but has more space. Thats even better.

I have sketches, that look kind da wierd. but I do have a moke up from carboard, how ever the Whiphle does not have W75 yet. just promises so I cant reaally make one from sheeat metal.

So I just sit tight and wait.

I already selected the belt but still final be from the SC it self, some idle pullies.

Basically nothing has to be mover or drilled, just some parts removed like air box. most of the stuff stays in place as they are.

in the end, the only way to tune the car is with piggy back, that be cost efficient.
it uses also Intercooler to prevent detonation and create much more power. I think I found a good way but I dont know yet so I wait a bit with that too. I might implament "Sub Zero" Cooling in it, but that could lead to more air leaks that might be accepected. So again We wait with that too.

once you start getting really serious and begin making parts you might want to think about getting some patents. p.s. whats the time frame your looking at for yours to be done a month 2,3,4 ?? Did whipple give you a date for when they are going to ship you a supercharger??

I was thinking about patents. Dont know yet if I get any.

and Whipple did not give me any time frame, they said its not ready yet, and thats it.

hey you need to ebay a used m90 try talking to this guy http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-SUPERCHARGER-3-8-L67-PONTIAC-GRAND-PRIX-GTP-M62-M90_W0QQitemZ260047929267QQihZ016QQcategoryZ33741Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

good luck and hurry up :)

I second the hurrying up...but don't hurry too fast, cause then I won't be able to afford it when you sell...or if you put one aside...then that will work too...haha:D

hey kak i got a question what is it that blows the eninge say a 5psi pushing say 1000cfm or a 25 psi blowing like 500cfm, i guess what im asking is is it the cfm cramed in there or the psi cramed in there that blows the engine up if both what would the limits be for a n/a engine i know you cant tell me exactally be any thing would be nice. thanks

ORIGINAL: killervenom

hey kak i got a question what is it that blows the eninge say a 5psi pushing say 1000cfm or a 25 psi blowing like 500cfm, i guess what im asking is is it the cfm cramed in there or the psi cramed in there that blows the engine up if both what would the limits be for a n/a engine i know you cant tell me exactally be any thing would be nice. thanks


Short answer:
The limit is the strength of the components. Whatever Audi designed them to handle is what they will handle. This number I don't know.

A longer answer:

CFM = volume/time
engine size = volume
rpm = 1/time

CFM = volume x rpm : i have left out all the conversions. Once you know how much CFM you need then you multiply that by the PSI to get a mass. The more air mass you have the more fuel mass you will have. After ignition that large mass of stuff will create a larger more forceful explosion. This force is what moves the piston. The limit is what force the piston can handle. Lucky for us Audi dosen't design them to run at its maximum. This is what the S/C takes advantage of.

sorry i don't know any numbers.

The compression ratio of the piston also limits how much boost you can add. Say after all the math you find you need 200psi of air at ignition. Stock pistons are say 10:1 ration (made up #). You then would want 20psi of intake air. Since ambient air is at 14psi you would want to run 6psi of boost.

Also note that the PSI of air in the intake manifold will add stress to the seals, valves, and the blower itself. Then you have to consider the piston will compress the air further.

If that dosen't help just PM me and I can explain it better. Right now I need to sleep.

I plan to start off at about 2 psi just to see how everthyng works together. then move up. up to 10 psi which audi can support w/intercoolling. In any case, you can do about 325 to 350 HP but thats a border line with pump gas.

the CFM dipends on the displacment of the engine, boost and RPM.
I do not go into the CFM, I just keep around boost and RPM.
the CFM can show you how much potential power can be produced.

So the 2 psi is to check for leaks and make sure it's going where it's supposed to?

yes, just to see if all works right. and if belt clears all, and that 2 psi is very hard to knock, so its basically fail safe point. even 0psi be better, but under 2 psi I would be able to hear any leaks and just be sure. That would produce almost 200HP.
I like being safe, doing crazy thing as puttign 10psi without any tuning and without chaking anything is kinda bad.
Dont worry I will supply a jumper so that 0psi be checked. So dont worry I make some steps for my future coustumers to make sure that nothing would go wrong. :)

Okey all math and planing complete.
All crap figured out.
Now I need just the stuff to put together.
:D

anyways only be recuired to cut 2 wires for tuning. :)

Who did you decide on for tuning? That's sweet that you got all the R done...now just gotta finish it up with the D, LoL. Oh man oh man...I want power! LoL

it utizes stock map, no stand alone or piggy back.

So the stock ECU can reconfigure itself to handle about 6psi?

with no mods to fuel system, just extra air, stock ecy can handle up to 3-4psi. with some mod to fuel system, it can handle up to 14psi

Ahhh...gotcha...

What would you use to get more fuel? Would you just use different injector...modify the fuel curve on the ECU, or chip it somehow?

well, its extreamly hard to put piggyback, couse of lots of wires. Well I went around it, and just use stock MAF (probably) and just increase fule preasuere as boost increasing. Via a fuel regulator.

I ordered my SC this friday, it will be shipped on monday.
and I started my website, still in progress
www.maximumaudi.com

Woohoo...I'm getting excited now...and as for your website...it needs pictures...and Colors, and An Audi symbol somewhere :D

Working on the website :)
excited too.....

hi ' i've been following your thread. i'm local. 99 a6 aq tip, chip. . let me know your progress or if you group buy big parts. etc.

it be hard to do a group thing for me.
However I can conquare it anyways.
In future it be posible.

I building my website, It is so hard. I have no artistic talent in me:(:(:(:(:(
well I have my SC, and will start building it over the sprint break ;)

Damit!!!! Stupid college, I have no time to finish the instalation!!!
I have evrything basically preped, all I need is time. Hopefully I will have some next mont :)

So you have the S/C mounting and tubing made, just don't have time to install it? That sucks balls. I hate not having time, just picked up my 3rd Job...work close to 60 hours a week...but gonna have a fat paycheck(s). then I can afford some bilstein C/O's...ok, not quite yet, but when I do have a spare $1200 laying around, I will

Still no time to install it. I will need to take some time off from FSAE and put it into my car.

Are you done yet? I'm sick of waiting, haha. Actually, I don't think I'll try to make my audi quick. a 2jz 240z is in the works for that.

What happened here? Any further progress?

kinda yes and no, I basically killed it. Just no time to replicate :(

Is the supercharger for the 12v V6? where did you get it? I can't find the PES G1 anywhere and thats the only oneI have heard of besides the Motodyne but there a rip off.

The plan was to use a M90 supercharger, which would have sacrificed a bit off efficiency for 1/2 the price. M90 is easily available, as many muscle cars have them. To save largely on cost, I would have been to sell rebuild versions, To make it more pleasing, they would have been warranted for a good long time. Since M90 is basically indestructible on a audi :). [~100k miles]

The M90 would have been spinning way below its max performance. And because it would have been spinning slower that needed, the eff would have suffered by at least 5%, which would have ended up to about 5-20HP

New plan, to make it more elegant. Is to order casted intakes, that would simply receive SC, M90 and M62.
More better plan, is to start casting. which might not happen at all. For this It might require a rapid prototype machine, that would be able to make a 1:1 Wax intake, and then casting. Or order a mold to be made. Then I will need to buy/build a furnace, and then some 5xxx, 6xxx, or if lucky 7xxx Al to make the intake.

And yes, for me to actually sell an intake would require me to bench test and Flow test before I be able to do anything.

As for the old plan, It actually doable, but its in a matter of nice words, crap on the side of the engine.

It might end up at the point where I might broaden the kits, because its just a different intakes and same SC.