hey fullaz, i own a 1989 audi 90 quattro and want more power but limited to options , the car being non turbo and all. any ideas?? i was thinking of stickin the audi 200 turbo engine in but dont kno if it will fit? any help would be appreciated. thanx
You can easily put 2.2T from Audi 200 for example :) Everything should suit ;) U ve got five 2.2 turbo engines to choose MC 165bhp, KG 182bhp, 1B 190bhp, 2B 200bhp and 3B 220bhp ;)
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Joined: 3/9/2004 From: Swamplands of NJ Status: offline
Here we go again! I want to make lots of power, $pend very little $$$, it has to be non-turbo, parts should be readily available, off the shelf and easy bolt-on. Dream on! To make HP you need lot$ of ca$h. How much HP can you get out of the 2.2/2.3 motor with turbo, up 1000+ and Audi supposedly had one before the Group B rally got canceled. The 1986 Talladega 5000 turbo put out 600+. Without turbo you can get about 300HP and it will not be streetable requiring exten$ive machining and cu$tom part$. You will need a cro$$ flow head with big valve$, $toker kit, cu$tom air intake, cu$tom exhaust, high compre$$ion forged piston$, racing camshaft, etc, etc, etc!
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
offram you totaly right.
but there is always inexpensive way to get power. there is serious people about power and there is people who just want slightly more power, becouse they barely make 60MPH on a highway.
it is posible to turbo charge a car for less that a 1000 buks. the cheapest I heard was 700 dolars for evrything.
two flanges, turbo, air tubing cheap plastic, oil line, piggy back. thats all ends up to like 30% power increase. and if intercooled to liek 40%. and the dude took it to a shop for welding. the flanges
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
who said abot a donor car? almost all enines can be turboed. the existing engine with some cuting and welding with basic concept of welding can turbo and engine.
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Joined: 3/9/2004 From: Swamplands of NJ Status: offline
Donor car is the cheapest way to go, that way you will have all the wiring harness, brackets, ECU, sensors and all the accompanying parts. If one buys these parts peice meal it will cost big time. Turbo charging is not that simple, kakarot, it is very obvious that you have no clue what is involved, it is not a simple bolt-on project.
< Message edited by 0fframp -- 5/29/2006 10:05:49 AM >
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
I know whats involved. and ye donor cars are the chaepest and time consuming thing. there is no bolt on kit for that engine.
I know that....
What I propose requires a friend with a car. whats you do is... buy a turbo thats will work with the car. then buy both flanges. then mark the exaust where it should be. take off the exaust manifold. go to welding shop where they can weld it in. then put it back. then mark the placment on the exaust down pipe. then take it off. go back to welding shop and weld it in. put together.
then buy the cheap easily bendable air tubes. oil tubes. and poiggy back device. like SMT5 which is like 50 buks now. there is only 6 wires on it. then put the T conector where there is a oil presure sender. and put the sensor on the T conector and the oil tube from there. then dril a hole in the carter for return line. turn on the piggy back set to defauuld. and dont forget the tubes. then styart the car. check for leaks and make sure there is boost, boost gauge.
then tune the system by the way you like.
this is a step shortener. its not as easy as it sounds. but can be done is a day. not to mention turbo can be taken from a junk yard.
and offramp, I dont say it is better, I just say there is alternatives. thats all.
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Joined: 3/9/2004 From: Swamplands of NJ Status: offline
Do it in a day! Like I said before it is obvious... You have stop smoking what ever you are smoking or fix that exhaust leak!
The stock compression is too high on a 2.3L motor to turbocharge safely and still be able to run on pump gas. The exhaust valves need to be replaced with sodium filled ones. The stock FI system will probably fall short of delivering the correct amount of fuel at full boost. The distributor needs to be re-curved or reprogrammed. The cooling system needs to be upgraded with a high volume water pump, install turbo cooling plumbing and a larger capacity radiator. The pistons need to be replaced with lower compression forged pistons. The crank and connecting rods also need to be forged and or nitrated to handle all the extra power. Also some turbo motors have oil squirt holes that provide additional cooling by spraying oil under the pistons and this will require a high pressure high volume oil pump.
You mean to tell me that you are going to accomplish all this by just bolting on a turbo and not taking the motor out and apart?
< Message edited by 0fframp -- 5/29/2006 5:47:49 PM >
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: 0fframp
Do it in a day! Like I said before it is obvious... You have stop smoking what ever you are smoking or fix that exhaust leak!
The stock compression is too high on a 2.3L motor to turbocharge safely and still be able to run on pump gas. The exhaust valves need to be replaced with sodium filled ones. The stock FI system will probably fall short of delivering the correct amount of fuel at full boost. The distributor needs to be re-curved or reprogrammed. The cooling system needs to be upgraded with a high volume water pump, install turbo cooling plumbing and a larger capacity radiator. The pistons need to be replaced with lower compression forged pistons. The crank and connecting rods also need to be forged and or nitrated to handle all the extra power. Also some turbo motors have oil squirt holes that provide additional cooling by spraying oil under the pistons and this will require a high pressure high volume oil pump.
You mean to tell me that you are going to accomplish all this by just bolting on a turbo and not taking the motor out and apart?
I dont smoke nothing, but I do have some jello.
any way whats you saying can handle like 30psi of boost about 400hp maybe more. I'm talking about like 8psi of boost. CAN you nitro the existing engine, this one, YES. safe max nitro is 30%. then atmosphitick presure is 14.7 psi. then it can handle around 5 psi safely. thats be 30%. then 130hp becomes 169hp. thast a diference between a V6 and I5.
the 10:1 can handle 5 psi, wouldn't you say. no big modes requrie. whats you said is about serious where the engine is pushed to max.
math:::: temp raize @ 8psi. T1=70F+460=530R P1=14.5psia P2=8psi + 14.5psia=22.5psia T2=530R x (22.5psia/14.5psia)^0.283 T2=600.1729R=~600R T2=600R-460=140F temperature rise of +70F <<ideal
lets asume that turbo runs at 70% eficiency then 70F/0.7=100F then inlet temp be 170F
presure ratio be only 1.55
okey we got that, then flow:::::: engine displacment is 2.3 L at 3000RPM be 100CFM if the engien works at 80% eficiency. so lets see at 6000RPM it be 200CFM thats for NA engine then the density of air would be 1.35 @ 70% eficiency then 100CFM x 1.35 = 135CFM 200CFM x 1.35 = 270CFM now lets choose a turbo. lb/min = 14.4718 cfm then 135CFM/14.4178=9.36lb/min @ 3000RPM then 270CFM/14.4178=18.73lb/min @ 6000RMP
the GT2554R goes right there, but on the minimum the GT2560R is much better, almost in the center of the eficiency %70-73 the GT2860R is there but slightly sucks the GT2252 is there also but pushish the limits and its higher that 70% eficiency
I would go with GT2560R its medium size. but others like GT2252 will also be good.
also the KKK line can be used but Garrett is much more likly to be found easierly
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Joined: 3/9/2004 From: Swamplands of NJ Status: offline
Nice, numbers and formulas! Which book or magazine did you copy it from? AND you only have half of the equation figured out.
Now how about you do some strengths of materials calculations and figure out how long the engine is going to last especially on a hot summer day? How much psi does a stock cast piston can handle versus a forged piston? What is the temperature of the exhaust valve and the temperature when it starts to "tulip"?
So far what I have mentioned is not running 30psi of boost but what factory turbo models from Japan and Europe come with and that is running 0.5 to 1 bar of boost. The components that I have mentioned so far are pretty much standard items that just about every major automaker uses. To run 30psi of boost on a 2.22 Audi motor requires quite a lot more modifications.
Can you hook up a just leaf blower and get a few more ponies, sure you can! Will it be reliable and last, hell no!
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
this formulas are for calculating turbo sizing. any way, you say the stock compresion is too high. well yes it is.
the exaust temperature is only defined majorly by the ignition and the A/F ratio. to advanced ignition can couse detonation and colder exaust, to retarded ignition couses low internal presure and higher exaust temperature. the exaust should be below 1300F thats 700C and higher that 1000F thats 540C it can be simply tuned with piggy back. the 7.8:1 compresion holds 1.4 bars stock thats 21psi on audi 200 and 5000 models dont know about the S4 the 8:1 campresion ration is suficient enough to hold 30 psi with forged internals with the fuel premium.
Consider this, the V6 with a PES supercharger without intercooling can pull 8psi thats 50% increase of real power
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Joined: 3/9/2004 From: Swamplands of NJ Status: offline
The difference between PES, Paxton, or other aftermarket forced air induction kits are that they are designed for easy installation and limited or average use. Where they fall short as opposed to fully developed OEM unit is long term reliability. You can take a factory Turbo and run full throttle for at least 24 hours non stop and have no serious internal problems with today's turbo motors. I think that both SAAB and Subaru ran long term tests to prove the reliability of their turbo models. I have even heard of one manufacturer doing a full throttle 24/7 test without a breakdown. I am not sure if any of the kit makers can make the same claim. And by no means are these kits cheap!
what about a 1992 100S with an AAH 2.8L 12V with 10.3:1 compression, how much boost could it hold safely?
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1992 100S with 2.8L 12V AAH, 209,000 mi, rebuilt 5 Spd. Manual Transmission 012 Front Wheel Drive at 208,140 mi, custom intake, looking for help/advice on buying/piecing together a turbo kit
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Joined: 8/24/2005 From: Brooklyn, NY Status: offline
about 8 or 9 psi, ends up to area around 300HP. Thats what I will do but will start from 3 or 2 psi move up to 5 then check 8 and 10 psi and move back to 5 psi. also I will sell as a kit, the replicas. thats gona come soon during summer of 2007 couse I seriously scruided up unm summer 2006 so, it should be soon.
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neeed more power!!! - 
Which book or magazine did you copy it from? AND you only have half of the equation figured out. 
