my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done
Login  | |
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/8/2007 2:39:57 PM
|
|
|
MissionCtrl
Posts: 431
Joined: 10/9/2006
Status: offline
|
question...are there any benefits to a rear mount? i know they make those kits for vettes, but i have never seen one in person. seems like a hell of alot of extra piping for the same result.
_____________________________
1998 A4 1.8TQ - KO4, Unitronics, 380cc's, Intake, 18's, dropped, 1 piece Projectors w/ HID's, grill, Forge007, ARP snub, custom 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, piggie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/8/2007 3:45:24 PM
|
|
|
asv4k8
Posts: 6
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline
|
The turbo stays cooler and can be larger because its not in the engine compartment. I chose this route because it was the least amount of down time in the install for my car. Durring the install the most time the car was not able to run was 4 hrs. (I did the install in many parts) The underhood heat is also kept down. On the down side I did loose 2" of ground clearance but it hasnt been a problem yet, I can look past that for now.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/8/2007 6:12:29 PM
|
|
|
MissionCtrl
Posts: 431
Joined: 10/9/2006
Status: offline
|
nice :D has it been tuned or are you just running stock tuning?
_____________________________
1998 A4 1.8TQ - KO4, Unitronics, 380cc's, Intake, 18's, dropped, 1 piece Projectors w/ HID's, grill, Forge007, ARP snub, custom 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, piggie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 8:05:00 AM
|
|
|
Hey_You
Posts: 250
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline
|
Where is your turbo inlet at? Is it just the filter on the turbo, or do you have a sort of an intake tucked away into the bumper? Just a question since it's still not that great of weather permanately for the season
_____________________________
I dream of RS4...then I wake up and have to change my sheets.
Stock '98 A4 2.8Quattro Sport, Tiptronic, Disconnected Taillight mod, Silverstars because I'm too poor to buy H.I.D's, Freshly Rebuilt Tranny
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 8:17:04 AM
|
|
|
Hey_You
Posts: 250
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline
|
Is it possible to ummm...dent in the underside so you can have a nice channel for the boost tubing? I know it might sound barbaric, but it's just a question.
_____________________________
I dream of RS4...then I wake up and have to change my sheets.
Stock '98 A4 2.8Quattro Sport, Tiptronic, Disconnected Taillight mod, Silverstars because I'm too poor to buy H.I.D's, Freshly Rebuilt Tranny
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 2:31:59 PM
|
|
|
asv4k8
Posts: 6
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline
|
The engine has a piggy back apexi fuel computer. The charge piping does hang down some but not too bad. The filter is on the maf which is on the turbo inlet, and there is an air box around the whole thing.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 7:21:16 PM
|
|
|
cincyTT
I can make pigs fly
Posts: 14882
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: No longer Ohio
Status: offline
|
if you have a safc i hope you are funning more that 2psi now. 5-7psi should be fine if you can tune it right. You may even want to up the fuel pressure to keep a/f around 11:1-11.5:1, which you should also be keeping an eye on.
_____________________________
FACTS > followers
197whp and 292wtq with no chip on stock ic, airbox and catback
AEG crank +Scat rods + 83mm Wiseco pistons = CincyTT Version 2.0T
For sale - 20mm wrist pin pistons and rods $175 + sh
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 7:29:11 PM
|
|
|
2k S4
Posts: 2948
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline
|
All that & you have 2 psi?
I bet it takes some time to spool up & you must have massive lag. A turbo works off of thermal compression. Putting it way back there, the exhaust cools a LOT, causing the flow to slow down. That's why most turbo's are right off the manifold. yes, it will run cooler back there, but your getting far less efficiency from it.
Then you have all that piping, do you have a IC? I hope you never scrap anything on the underside of the car. Boost leaks are going to plague you.
You can gain more performance from one of the E-ram electric superchargers over your setup.
Sorry if you think I'm being a little mean, but if your not going to due it right, why even do it?
_____________________________
If you PM me waning help, PayPal $5 to evoiiim3@yahoo.com first!
2005 Lighting Yellow Lancer EVO 8
2000 Audi S4 Imola Yellow
1997 Porsche 911 C4S, Black
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 9:55:40 PM
|
|
|
cincyTT
I can make pigs fly
Posts: 14882
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: No longer Ohio
Status: offline
|
sorry but im going to have to refute some of these points
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2k S4
All that & you have 2 psi? Agreed
I bet it takes some time to spool up & you must have massive lag.
From the pic it looks like its before or replacing the cat
A turbo works off of thermal compression. Putting it way back there, the exhaust cools a LOT, causing the flow to slow down.
the turbo works on flow, thats why a larger displacement engine makes more exhaust flow spooling a turbo faster.
That's why most turbo's are right off the manifold. yes NO, they are there because of space and they spool faster., it will run cooler back there, but your getting far less efficiency from it. Not really, it gets a much more even flow like a equal lenght manifold. Which although slower in spool (pending how far back it is) you gain more high end hp.
Then you have all that piping, do you have a IC? I hope you never scrap anything on the underside of the car. Boost leaks are going to plague you. He is not even above 7psi. He would be fine until he passes that. Plus he would only need a smaller ic because he is using a larger turbo at very little boost causing very little heat.
You can gain more performance from one of the E-ram electric superchargers over your setup. I really hope that was a joke. A large turbo flows way more cfm then a plastic fan
Sorry if you think I'm being a little mean, but if your not going to due it right, why even do it?
_____________________________
FACTS > followers
197whp and 292wtq with no chip on stock ic, airbox and catback
AEG crank +Scat rods + 83mm Wiseco pistons = CincyTT Version 2.0T
For sale - 20mm wrist pin pistons and rods $175 + sh
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 11:23:09 PM
|
|
|
Bondga
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
A turbo works off of thermal compression. Putting it way back there, the exhaust cools a LOT, causing the flow to slow down.
the turbo works on flow, thats why a larger displacement engine makes more exhaust flow spooling a turbo faster.
Yes and no, the turbo works off of heat and back pressure. as the air enters the manifold the turbo traps the air creating back pressure. Meaning the pressure of the exhaust gas is higher than atmospheric pressure. A pressure and temperature drop occurs (expansion) across the turbine , which harnesses the exhaust gas’ energy to provide the power necessary to drive the compresso
< Message edited by Bondga -- 3/9/2007 11:28:54 PM >
_____________________________
2000 A4 FrontTrak :(
15% tint (legal.. no, Do i care...... no)
Steering Column Boost Guage
8000k HID's
Debadged
Really sqeaky Control Arms :/
Blistien Shocks/springs on the way
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/9/2007 11:31:38 PM
|
|
|
Bondga
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
|
so in turn by having that turbo way in the back you are loosing some of the ability of turbo to spool. Also since you have it feed by one chamber your exhaust gasses arnt working at full efficientcy because overlap is occuring. But despite all this i aplaud you for making it work. It is a good option if you do not want to run duel turbo's and im sure its mch cheaper.
_____________________________
2000 A4 FrontTrak :(
15% tint (legal.. no, Do i care...... no)
Steering Column Boost Guage
8000k HID's
Debadged
Really sqeaky Control Arms :/
Blistien Shocks/springs on the way
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 12:45:46 PM
|
|
|
cincyTT
I can make pigs fly
Posts: 14882
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: No longer Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bondga
so in turn by having that turbo way in the back you are loosing some of the ability of turbo to spool. Also since you have it feed by one chamber your exhaust gasses arnt working at full efficientcy because overlap is occuring.
This is why a equal lenth manifold works so much better because when one chamber passes it creates a little vacuum for the next one creating greater flow.
*** AND TO THE OP, i hope you have your headers and exhaust to the turbo wrapped to contain the heat. Like said above heat is important, and by traping that heat in the exhaust preturbo will aide in your performance.
< Message edited by cincyTT -- 3/10/2007 12:48:03 PM >
_____________________________
FACTS > followers
197whp and 292wtq with no chip on stock ic, airbox and catback
AEG crank +Scat rods + 83mm Wiseco pistons = CincyTT Version 2.0T
For sale - 20mm wrist pin pistons and rods $175 + sh
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 1:07:59 PM
|
|
|
2k S4
Posts: 2948
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cincyTT
sorry but im going to have to refute some of these points
I bet it takes some time to spool up & you must have massive lag.
From the pic it looks like its before or replacing the cat
A turbo works off of thermal compression. Putting it way back there, the exhaust cools a LOT, causing the flow to slow down.
the turbo works on flow, thats why a larger displacement engine makes more exhaust flow spooling a turbo faster.
That's why most turbo's are right off the manifold. yes NO, they are there because of space and they spool faster., it will run cooler back there, but your getting far less efficiency from it. Not really, it gets a much more even flow like a equal lenght manifold. Which although slower in spool (pending how far back it is) you gain more high end hp.
Then you have all that piping, do you have a IC? I hope you never scrap anything on the underside of the car. Boost leaks are going to plague you. He is not even above 7psi. He would be fine until he passes that. Plus he would only need a smaller ic because he is using a larger turbo at very little boost causing very little heat.
You can gain more performance from one of the E-ram electric superchargers over your setup. I really hope that was a joke. A large turbo flows way more cfm then a plastic fan
If you look at the pic, it loose like the back of the car, where the muffler was, the car doesn't look like a quattro, as I don't see any drive shafts.
Ok, yes, a turbo works off of exhaust flow. But the FLOW HAS TO BE MOVING FAST! As it cools, and moves away from the exhaust mani, it slows way down, and has less pressure on it. It's basic thermodynamics. This will spin the turbo slower, create much more lag, loose a lot of efficiency. Turbo's are mounted right off the exhaust mani to get max performance from it. Thats' where the gas is hottest, moves the fastest, and has the most pressure. Just about every turbo system out there is mounted off the exhaust mani. It's not for packaging, it's to get the least amount of lag, & to get the most efficiency. Also being way back there, it's also going to get the pulse waves from the exhaust, so it will get inconsistent pressure. Put your hand at the end of your exhaust, it's going to get pulsed, not a steady flow. The whole point of a equal length header, is to amplify the exhaust pulse wave, to create a low pressure area, that in turn pulls the exhaust gas out of the combustion chambers. It's has no applications on a turbo car, due to the turbo, cutting the exhaust pulse waves, and the turbo it's self forcing the gas out of the combustion chambers. Totally different theories.
Again from the pic, it looks like it's at the back of the car, so you have piping from the rear to the front, under the car. My point on the IC is this is not a finished system, and not very well thought out. Personally I would never go threw the trouble of adding a turbo to a car for 2psi. Hopefully there are plans to at least get to half a bar of boost.
_____________________________
If you PM me waning help, PayPal $5 to evoiiim3@yahoo.com first!
2005 Lighting Yellow Lancer EVO 8
2000 Audi S4 Imola Yellow
1997 Porsche 911 C4S, Black
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 1:18:05 PM
|
|
|
2k S4
Posts: 2948
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bondga
Yes and no, the turbo works off of heat and back pressure. as the air enters the manifold the turbo traps the air creating back pressure. Meaning the pressure of the exhaust gas is higher than atmospheric pressure. A pressure and temperature drop occurs (expansion) across the turbine , which harnesses the exhaust gas’ energy to provide the power necessary to drive the compresso
It's a air pump, it works off of one gas spinning a wheel to compress gas on the other side. The gas on the turbine must be higher then the gas on the compressor.
The turbine wheel creates the back pressure, that pressure drop @ the wheel is what spins it. Gas moves from high pressure to low pressure. The pressure & heat from the exhaust help create a higher pressure differential, that's what helps spool the turbo faster. The pressure doesn't really need to be higher then atmospheric pressure, it just needs to be higher then the pressure on the other side of the turbo.
What happens when you add a downpipe? The turbo spools faster, right? It does so, due to less restriction on the other side, meaning there is less pressure build up on that side of the turbo, meaning there is going to be more flow, & a greater pressure differential.
_____________________________
If you PM me waning help, PayPal $5 to evoiiim3@yahoo.com first!
2005 Lighting Yellow Lancer EVO 8
2000 Audi S4 Imola Yellow
1997 Porsche 911 C4S, Black
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 2:12:13 PM
|
|
|
Bondga
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
|
yeah the turbo is spolled by a change in pressure over the blades. Reducing the pressure on teh aft side of the turbine will cause the pressure difference needed to occur faster therfore spooling the turbo faster.
_____________________________
2000 A4 FrontTrak :(
15% tint (legal.. no, Do i care...... no)
Steering Column Boost Guage
8000k HID's
Debadged
Really sqeaky Control Arms :/
Blistien Shocks/springs on the way
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 5:30:48 PM
|
|
|
cincyTT
I can make pigs fly
Posts: 14882
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: No longer Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2k S4
Personally I would never go threw the trouble of adding a turbo to a car for 2psi. Hopefully there are plans to at least get to half a bar of boost.
Looking at this pic
I dont see garrett or turbonetics on the comp housing. Also that looks like a ebay wastegate and i know that is a ebay filter. Im just curious what this "kit" is really composed of.
_____________________________
FACTS > followers
197whp and 292wtq with no chip on stock ic, airbox and catback
AEG crank +Scat rods + 83mm Wiseco pistons = CincyTT Version 2.0T
For sale - 20mm wrist pin pistons and rods $175 + sh
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/10/2007 5:36:26 PM
|
|
|
Bondga
Posts: 1158
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
|
that is a pretty nasty lookin snail there. you could probably dry ten camels with a hairdryer that size. He does have a point boost dosnt mattter. Its all about cfm. the more air you put into the cilinder the more power. but bigger turbo produces the same cfm at low boost as a sml one at high boost
the only thing taht woud really bother me about this setup is that low hanging intake pipe
< Message edited by Bondga -- 3/10/2007 5:38:54 PM >
_____________________________
2000 A4 FrontTrak :(
15% tint (legal.. no, Do i care...... no)
Steering Column Boost Guage
8000k HID's
Debadged
Really sqeaky Control Arms :/
Blistien Shocks/springs on the way
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 9:44:58 AM
|
|
|
Hey_You
Posts: 250
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline
|
Now what would be cool, is if someone went with the small turbine to spool up real fast, and that is connected to a big turbo to spool up quicker...all the power you need, haha, ok, temps would be high...but who cares, I just saved a bunch of money by switching my car insurance to Geico...Ok, I lie, but I did find out the Chevron by my house sells 100 octane gas...I thought that was pretty neat. Anyone know if I would notice if I filled up using it...30v 100% NA...Would be nice to see a little extra power
_____________________________
I dream of RS4...then I wake up and have to change my sheets.
Stock '98 A4 2.8Quattro Sport, Tiptronic, Disconnected Taillight mod, Silverstars because I'm too poor to buy H.I.D's, Freshly Rebuilt Tranny
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 12:14:53 PM
|
|
|
2k S4
Posts: 2948
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bondga
that is a pretty nasty lookin snail there. you could probably dry ten camels with a hairdryer that size. He does have a point boost dosnt mattter. Its all about cfm. the more air you put into the cilinder the more power. but bigger turbo produces the same cfm at low boost as a sml one at high boost
the only thing taht woud really bother me about this setup is that low hanging intake pipe
There both needed. Think of it in terms of Volts & amps. You need the PSI to push the flow, of course the CFM is the amount of the flow. So if you have really high CFM but low pressure. THe cylinder charge will be much lower, and the air will get lazy & slow down even more in the intake track, in turn slow down the turbo. So you balance out the CFm with PSI, to push that air into the cylinders, do to the high CFM there is much more air in there, so the turbo will spin faster.
Back to the V & A. Think of a car stereo amp. They work off of 12v, that is the "pressure" of the power, this is what will "push" the flow of electrons. Then you have the Amps. This is the amount of flow. What happens when the radio is on, and you have a strong battery? It sounds great, but what happens as the battery starts to die, & goes lower then 12v? It sounds like crap, due to the lack of push on the low voltage. That's also why car radio's are louder when the car is running, it's now at 14.4v instead of 12v.
My point is, you need CFM & PSI in a symbiotic relationship.
_____________________________
If you PM me waning help, PayPal $5 to evoiiim3@yahoo.com first!
2005 Lighting Yellow Lancer EVO 8
2000 Audi S4 Imola Yellow
1997 Porsche 911 C4S, Black
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 1:36:06 PM
|
|
|
greekA4
Posts: 62
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
|
wow. neat setup. But your pipes were lower than mine. Also, how are you oiling your turbo? I was too afriad to place my MAF back there so I ran a push through instead of your pull through...interesting. Well, like someone said earlier if you want do to it right, then do it right..dont bother with those ebay parts. I have high quality parts that are NEW!!!!! and willing to deal cuz I need them gone and I buying a G2 with water injection (320 is enough power for me for now). I will pm you prices and specs! I also have tuning available for you setup.....
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 2:44:58 PM
|
|
|
asv4k8
Posts: 6
Joined: 3/8/2007
Status: offline
|
ok guys here is a good problem for you to solve: I have a boost/vac leak somewhere in the intake in the engine compartment. ive ruled out the turbo piping and all the aftermarket stuff, it is somewhere in the stock part of the manifold. I have also ruled out the wastegate and exhaust leaks, So without being able to look at the car and I havent been able to use a smoke leak detector yet, does anybody know if there is a notorious vac leak problem with the 2.8 12v a4 that is big enough that i wouldnt be able to build more than 2psi at full rpm/throttle. (i already sealed up my plastic check valve for the brake booster because it was blowing apart under boost, so that is not it either)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 3:08:16 PM
|
|
|
Black97a4
Posts: 8
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline
|
Hey, im very interested on all the stuff you need to do this.. and how if possible??? im going to go and pick up a turbo tomorrow and start this project. i was wondering if you could help me out at all.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 3:43:25 PM
|
|
|
2k S4
Posts: 2948
Joined: 4/25/2006
From: Tacoma, WA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: asv4k8
ok guys here is a good problem for you to solve: I have a boost/vac leak somewhere in the intake in the engine compartment. ive ruled out the turbo piping and all the aftermarket stuff, it is somewhere in the stock part of the manifold. I have also ruled out the wastegate and exhaust leaks, So without being able to look at the car and I havent been able to use a smoke leak detector yet, does anybody know if there is a notorious vac leak problem with the 2.8 12v a4 that is big enough that i wouldnt be able to build more than 2psi at full rpm/throttle. (i already sealed up my plastic check valve for the brake booster because it was blowing apart under boost, so that is not it either)
I would look at the stock plastic intake to the throttle body, it's a weak part, and can leak on a NA car. Then I would check the EVAP purge system, then the vacuum lines that are right at the TB area. I don't think they would like boost much, since they suck air. My guess is you are now pressurizing the internals of the engine, instead of it running in vacuum. You might need to run a catch can, & put in some one way check valves.
_____________________________
If you PM me waning help, PayPal $5 to evoiiim3@yahoo.com first!
2005 Lighting Yellow Lancer EVO 8
2000 Audi S4 Imola Yellow
1997 Porsche 911 C4S, Black
|
|
|
|
|
RE: my 12v v6 rear mount turbo setup is done - 3/12/2007 5:07:05 PM
|
|
|
greekA4
Posts: 62
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
|
your throttle body hose which is flexible and plastic NEEDS to be a hardpipe..trust me. I made that mistake and replaced it with a hardpipe, took it back to the tuner and everything worked out so much better.
|
|
|
|
 Today's Posts
Most Active Topics
Make A Donation
Forum Rules & FAQ
RSS Feeds
Audi Prices
Audi Cars
Audi A6  Audi S3
Audi A4 Audi S4
Audi TT Audi S6
Audi Dealers
Audi Clubs
Advertising Info
| |
Printable Version
