Winter driving
Login  | |
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 12:21:41 AM
|
|
|
richrich
Posts: 84
Joined: 1/16/2008
Status: offline
|
Yea that is true....I live in alaska so winter driving is an everyday thing for 7-8 months out of the year. I have a quattro and that is true about it helping to get moving but does nothing for you when trying to slow down. We can run studded tires through the winter months which helps ALOT but in other places you just really have to make sure your tires have a good all weather patern and even still you have to really pay attention to the black ice you may not see on the road because no matter how many wheels you have helping you get going....it does nothing for you when trying to get that speedo back to zero
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 5:47:24 AM
|
|
|
Limen
Posts: 129
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline
|
Yes, Quattro FTW!!!
_____________________________
2001 Audi A6 4.2 Quattro - My Daily Driver
1997 Lexus ES300 - Fullout sound system - Girllyfriends ride
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 6:56:52 AM
|
|
|
Teutonic2.7T
Posts: 150
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
|
EXACTLY!!!!! quattro is great for moving... but how will you stop!!?
for example, i get up hills fine but im F*&ked when i have to slide my 5 ton car back down. or when i rip past everyone on the street then suddenly have to turn or stop at a light.... my car goes out of control... the car is soooo heavy that its tough to maneuver during a slide.
friends, please be aware of this.
_____________________________
2002 Audi A6 2.7TT
2002 VW Passat V6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 7:16:01 AM
|
|
|
ppgoal
Posts: 701
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Holland MI
Status: offline
|
AWD does not = AW stop. As a long time 4-wheeler, Iearned that years ago with my jeep. It's still sad to see big SUVs go screaming past me on the interstate in a snowstorm and then later pass them in a ditch.
You have to drive carefully even with quattro, but it makes a huge difference. The ABS reduces slides but you have to allow extra distance to stop when the road is icey.
_____________________________
2003 Audi A6 2.7T MT6
Premium Package-Cold Weather Package-Bose
GIAC-Bailey DVs-Samco TBB
AWE Stage 2 Clutch+Lightweight Flywheel
235/45 R17 Pirelli P6 All-season; OEMs
235/40 ZR18 ContiExtremeContact;
Velocity RS4 Replica Rims
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 8:19:54 AM
|
|
|
hxgaser
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
|
4WD does not defy laws of physics. I live in Northern California and travel up tp Tahoe quite frequently in the winter. It is a popular sky destination. Anyways, poor fools with their $100K MB suvs and Range Rovers thinks that just because they have this expensive AWD, they are invincible. I see them half flipped over on the side of the road, and just laugh at them. AWD or not, in snow, you slow down. I also try not to brake as much as possible. Just use engine braking to slow down, without using high RPM. Even then, I tend to slide when it is really frozen.
Just because you have an AWD vehicle, does not mean that you are safe in any condition.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 8:35:14 AM
|
|
|
Asianicestyles
Posts: 99
Joined: 9/21/2007
Status: offline
|
Yes, another thing is to be cautious to, black ice. My old car was FWD, last winter when I was going around a normal corner as I have always did in the past, coming in it seemed perfectly fine but I hit some black ice the car understeered and I nearly hit two cars.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 8:36:31 AM
|
|
|
daroshi
Posts: 168
Joined: 9/6/2006
From: WA
Status: offline
|
As with all vehicles, the tires are the difference in control when it comes to winter driving. An Audi Quattro with dedicated winter ice and snow tires (NOT all season or M&S tires) is incredible. Check the rating of the tires for both ice traction and snow traction before buying. I have used Michelin Pilot Alpins for winters with few, if any, scary moments. It makes a huge difference. 
_____________________________
2002 A6 2.7T 6MT
Crystal Blue
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 11:27:56 AM
|
|
|
NJGOAT
Posts: 59
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
|
Moral of the story kids...don't drive like a d**che.
On a side note I used to love puttering around in blizzards in my little A4 watching trucks go flying by me on the highway just to end up in a ditch a mile down the road. That and racing a diesel F250 from a stop light. He pretty much just went sideways even with 4WD while the A4 just took off straight down the road....good times, good times.
_____________________________
2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line - His
2004 Pontiac GTO (12.773 @ 109.72, 1.945 60') - Retired
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 - Hers
http://www.controlled-insanity.net
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 11:56:00 AM
|
|
|
Teutonic2.7T
Posts: 150
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hxgaser
4WD does not defy laws of physics. I live in Northern California and travel up tp Tahoe quite frequently in the winter. It is a popular sky destination. Anyways, poor fools with their $100K MB suvs and Range Rovers thinks that just because they have this expensive AWD, they are invincible. I see them half flipped over on the side of the road, and just laugh at them. AWD or not, in snow, you slow down. I also try not to brake as much as possible. Just use engine braking to slow down, without using high RPM. Even then, I tend to slide when it is really frozen.
Just because you have an AWD vehicle, does not mean that you are safe in any condition.
that's what i do! i actually don't use the tiptronic in the A6 as much as i do in my passat. but when it is icy or snowy.. the tiptronic is a real luxury.
I drive in lower gears and have greater control, and hardly need to breakl.
_____________________________
2002 Audi A6 2.7TT
2002 VW Passat V6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/18/2008 11:59:57 AM
|
|
|
Teutonic2.7T
Posts: 150
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ppgoal
AWD does not = AW stop. As a long time 4-wheeler, Iearned that years ago with my jeep. It's still sad to see big SUVs go screaming past me on the interstate in a snowstorm and then later pass them in a ditch.
You have to drive carefully even with quattro, but it makes a huge difference. The ABS reduces slides but you have to allow extra distance to stop when the road is icey.
ppgoal, how are the conti's?? those are the same ones im looking for... consumer reports quoted them as a best buy... they're an ultra high performance all season... with snow traction as good as a standard dedicated winter tire... or so the review says. what is you're experience with the contiextreeme contacts?
_____________________________
2002 Audi A6 2.7TT
2002 VW Passat V6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/23/2008 9:51:14 PM
|
|
|
Grelot
Posts: 15
Joined: 1/19/2008
Status: offline
|
Im from Quebec city, Qc, Canada... and here we have a lot more snowfall than any state you want,,,, in here we know how to drive a car in winter season...first , like Daroshi tell us, put some good tires under your car.. you will be a lot more safer for everybody and for you... secondly, if you want to go fast with a AWD in poor condition.. when you drive by a deap snow ,,, dont push on the brake pedal like an unexperimented driver.. do it the other way... push alittle bit more on the gas and the car will automaticly take is position on the snow... if your pushing on the brake pedal.. you're dead!!
and finally, dont ever overvalue the traction of a AWD... in other words be more aware of your capacitys than you car.
Grelot
2000 A6 2.7T M6T
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 6:08:00 AM
|
|
|
ungawa
Posts: 80
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline
|
I already know the answer to this I think... but I just want to hear it out of someone else's mouth.
My wife has an 03 A4 Avant (tip). She's under the impression that she can have better braking in snowy conditions if she uses the tip to downshift. I told her to use the brakes instead since they have ABS. If she 'over-downshifts' in snowy conditions, there's nothing to stop her from slipping... right? (Say she's going downhill on a curve) She's basically found the one way to render traction control and her ABS useless... right?
_____________________________
01 allroad
03 A4 Avant
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 6:40:02 AM
|
|
|
Teutonic2.7T
Posts: 150
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ungawa
I already know the answer to this I think... but I just want to hear it out of someone else's mouth.
My wife has an 03 A4 Avant (tip). She's under the impression that she can have better braking in snowy conditions if she uses the tip to downshift. I told her to use the brakes instead since they have ABS. If she 'over-downshifts' in snowy conditions, there's nothing to stop her from slipping... right? (Say she's going downhill on a curve) She's basically found the one way to render traction control and her ABS useless... right?
what your wife is doing is right... ABS and Traction control are still functional in Tip.
as Grelot said; " dont push on the brake pedal like an unexperimented driver.. do it the other way... push alittle bit more on the gas and the car will automaticly take is position on the snow... if your pushing on the brake pedal.. you're dead!! "
I totally agree with Grelot... as that has been my experience as well.
_____________________________
2002 Audi A6 2.7TT
2002 VW Passat V6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 7:09:15 AM
|
|
|
ungawa
Posts: 80
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline
|
But let's say, just to illustrate the point... that she's going 60 and uses the tip to shift into 2nd on black ice. The traction control isn't going to be doing it's job... right? The tires are bound to lose it's grip on the road. It's not going to disengage the drivetrain and allow the wheels to speed up over the gearing of 2nd. AFAIK the traction control will only break wheels to keep them from spinning... not speed them up. (but then again I am new to Audis) And the ABS will only release the brakes if they're slipping.
Not new to snow driving. I've lived in northern New England my entire life. I know there are times to use gas.. and time for brakes. But if you're simply trying to slow down... saying "step on the gas" doesn't apply... "step on the gas" is for "oh crap I've already lost control of my car and I need to regain it".
_____________________________
01 allroad
03 A4 Avant
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 8:39:35 AM
|
|
|
hxgaser
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ungawa
But let's say, just to illustrate the point... that she's going 60 and uses the tip to shift into 2nd on black ice. The traction control isn't going to be doing it's job... right? The tires are bound to lose it's grip on the road. It's not going to disengage the drivetrain and allow the wheels to speed up over the gearing of 2nd. AFAIK the traction control will only break wheels to keep them from spinning... not speed them up. (but then again I am new to Audis) And the ABS will only release the brakes if they're slipping.
Not new to snow driving. I've lived in northern New England my entire life. I know there are times to use gas.. and time for brakes. But if you're simply trying to slow down... saying "step on the gas" doesn't apply... "step on the gas" is for "oh crap I've already lost control of my car and I need to regain it".
Yes and no on using tip to slow down imho. Engine braking is good as long as you do not make an abrupt change. So if you stick it into 2nd while doing 60MPH, you will kick up the RPM fast, and your tire will loose tracking for sure on black ice or snow. Idea is to gradually slow down without changing the cars momentum drastically. In that case, in theory, it works the same with ABS as the engine braking right? Not exactly in my experienve. When the road is really slippery, I usually notice at least one wheel locking up while braking with ABS. Computer for some really can't really deal with the ice and lock up the wheel. You notice that typical ABS clicking noise and vibration on the brake. But in this situation, lets consider that I was driving about 20 mph on 4th gear. At 1200 rpm or so if not lower. I just down shift to 3rd. It gets me to 1500 rpm and applies enginer braking. Once I get down to 1000 rpm or so, I down shift again. and again and so on. During thing entire process, my wheels were always in contact with the pavement and never lost any traction, unlike using ABS. But once again, using this kind of downshift to slow down takes long time to stop.
As for the comment about what to do if you loose traction, my answer would be NOTHING. Just point the wheel straight, and do nothing. No brake, no gas. The car will automatically true itself out.
I am just saying this out of my experience and it may be wrong on some situation. But overall, you just need to slow down in the snow.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 8:49:29 AM
|
|
|
euro_2nr
Posts: 695
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
|
Use common sense and Quattro and ABS will take care of the rest... tip does help though. Using more compression on the engine is less strain on your pads and rubber. I was looking to get a set of Blizzaks but ran out of time because in Chicago its been
Quattro heaven! Got 2 more inches last night. But right now its -35 with the windchill. Im hoping for 1 more 6"+ blizzard before spring shines in.
_____________________________
My car so pretty all these hoes wanna f*ck it, I got p*ssy wet paint, big boy shoes, soft ass seats and my trunk goes boom! - Lil Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 9:41:17 AM
|
|
|
ungawa
Posts: 80
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hxgaser
Yes and no on using tip to slow down imho. Engine braking is good as long as you do not make an abrupt change. So if you stick it into 2nd while doing 60MPH, you will kick up the RPM fast, and your tire will loose tracking for sure on black ice or snow. Idea is to gradually slow down without changing the cars momentum drastically. In that case, in theory, it works the same with ABS as the engine braking right? Not exactly in my experienve. When the road is really slippery, I usually notice at least one wheel locking up while braking with ABS. Computer for some really can't really deal with the ice and lock up the wheel. You notice that typical ABS clicking noise and vibration on the brake. But in this situation, lets consider that I was driving about 20 mph on 4th gear. At 1200 rpm or so if not lower. I just down shift to 3rd. It gets me to 1500 rpm and applies enginer braking. Once I get down to 1000 rpm or so, I down shift again. and again and so on. During thing entire process, my wheels were always in contact with the pavement and never lost any traction, unlike using ABS. But once again, using this kind of downshift to slow down takes long time to stop.
As for the comment about what to do if you loose traction, my answer would be NOTHING. Just point the wheel straight, and do nothing. No brake, no gas. The car will automatically true itself out.
I am just saying this out of my experience and it may be wrong on some situation. But overall, you just need to slow down in the snow.
Gotcha.  It's that abrupt change and more extreme rpms and speeds that I'm worried about her using the TIP in. A situation where you may be rounding a bend going too fast on ice... I'd rather take my chances with the brakes than try my hand at downshifting the tip which I have relatively little control over.
I think my initial question is answered though. The traction control won't save her if her crime is downshifting too aggressively on ice. The traction control only helps on acceleration. And ABS only helps on braking. There's no gizmo on the audi that keeps your wheels from sliding if you're downshifting too aggresively. So yea, her usage of her tip to slow herself is the only means by which one can defeat Audi's efforts to keep us safely on the road. Am I making any sense?
_____________________________
01 allroad
03 A4 Avant
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 10:08:49 AM
|
|
|
Teutonic2.7T
Posts: 150
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
|
no, you don't make sense... you're wrong and your wife's right. suck it up...
_____________________________
2002 Audi A6 2.7TT
2002 VW Passat V6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 10:40:14 AM
|
|
|
NJGOAT
Posts: 59
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
|
Well, his wife is wrong and right. If you are going into a turn at 60mph and you just downshift the car hard and try to flat foot it through a curve that is snow and ice covered, you are asking for trouble.
The key to winter driving is being aware and taking it easy. Driving in Tip is a great way to maintain control as the car won't make any unexpected shifts that could cause you to lose control...
For instance, my friend was driving his automatic Camaro in cold and wet conditions. He wasn't doing anything crazy, he just accelerated normally to avoid a merging car. The trans kicked down a gear and the sudden shock on the tires kicked them loose and put him in a spin.
Using Tip to prevent that and using engine braking as you are approaching a turn or stop is far better than simply using your brakes to slow the car down in the snow. The Audi basically has three safety systems to keep you on the road that all work through the ABS and throttle.
1. Traction Control - This keeps your car going straight under acceleration and will use the ABS and throttle to keep everything in order.
2. ABS - Keeps your brakes from locking up under hard braking. However, if you bury the brakes in the snow/ice it will still take a long time to stop and your car will slide towards the end of the stop as the ABS is ineffective at very low speeds.
3. ESP (stability control) - This keeps your car from spinning out. When your blasting through a corner and the car begins to oversteer, this system will use the brakes to keep your car from spinning out. The problem is that it will also push your car to understeer, which may not be the best thing, for example on a tight off-ramp.
However, as most everyone has said, the key to everything is good tires. The better your tires grip, the less you will need any of the above safety nets to keep you on the road.
_____________________________
2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line - His
2004 Pontiac GTO (12.773 @ 109.72, 1.945 60') - Retired
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 - Hers
http://www.controlled-insanity.net
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 11:51:05 AM
|
|
|
ungawa
Posts: 80
Joined: 1/8/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: NJGOAT
Well, his wife is wrong and right. If you are going into a turn at 60mph and you just downshift the car hard and try to flat foot it through a curve that is snow and ice covered, you are asking for trouble.
That's all I'm saying. We live in northern Vermont and are regularly in this situation where the slightest interruption between wheel and snow means you're off the road.
With a standard.. at least you can ease yourself into a lower gear buy having your rpm up before letting out on the clutch. These are the first automatics I've owned in a long time.
Now my point regarding the traction control, abs, esp...
I'll try another example. (I know I should quit..) Say you're driving at 130mph across a frozen lake. (Been itching to try that) You downshift into 2nd. What happens? All four tires have lost their grip and you're spinning like a top across a lake going 125mph for a very long distance. This is the one situation where the Audi does not have a control over your traction. They've got traction under acceleration covered with the traction control... and traction during braking covered with ABS... but for someone aggresively 'braking' via downshifting, the traction is not monitored or assisted.
Sorry.. really just an observation more than anything else. Wife and I were driving along on a snowy road, already pushing it around a corner that leaned to the outside and she decided to drop the Tip one gear and I almost crapped myself. It got me thinking.
_____________________________
01 allroad
03 A4 Avant
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 12:33:00 PM
|
|
|
NJGOAT
Posts: 59
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline
|
Well, first off, the Tip won't let you drop it into second gear at 130mph, the over revving of the motor in that situation would pretty much grenade the engine and may take out some drivetrain while it's at it.
However, let's say you could do that. That is where the ESP (stability control) would step in. The shock of downshifting would break the tires loose. The car would begin to spin out. The ESP system would intervene and use the ABS to control the slide and right the car and keep it going straight.
The problem is that the system can be overwhelmed. Meaning, the force of what you are doing may be so violent, the system cannot compensate fast enough. You would only get into that predicament under very unique conditions.
_____________________________
2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line - His
2004 Pontiac GTO (12.773 @ 109.72, 1.945 60') - Retired
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 - Hers
http://www.controlled-insanity.net
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 1:04:43 PM
|
|
|
euro_2nr
Posts: 695
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
|
1+^^^HAHAHA If anyone is planning on shifting to from 120 to second gear:
1. Has NO common sense or knowledge on how the drivetrain functions. TIPs have trouble dropping 30 into 1st!
2. Has a car that tops out at 350mph.
3. Shouldn't be allowed to turn the ignition.
My 2¢ 
_____________________________
My car so pretty all these hoes wanna f*ck it, I got p*ssy wet paint, big boy shoes, soft ass seats and my trunk goes boom! - Lil Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Winter driving - 1/24/2008 1:12:32 PM
|
|
|
hxgaser
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
|
No car defies the laws of physics. Hypothetically, your car allowed to down shift to 2nd on 130 mph. Then what happens? Traction control? Nah... you just slide as your ESP light blinks to the high heavens until you hit a patch of rock, blow up an die. There is no electronics that would accomodate that kind of situation.
Also ESP is a funny animal. I spoke to a few Audi and BMW factory reps before. These are not your average sales person. They design these electronic stability systems. Anyways, some systems have built-in winter mode. Such as MB and Volvo and etc. Some don't. And do you know what they say? Contrary to the popular belief, if the condition gets really bad, they recommand that you actually turn off your ESP unless you have a spefic winter mode. Also if you have chains on, (sometimes even for a quattro, chains are required) they recommand that you turn off your ESP. Why? Because the system can't not deal with the wheels constantly spinning at different speed, and thinks that there is something wrong with your car.
ESP definitely helps, but it is not magic. Don't think that it will spin your car straight in all cases. It only helps to mitigate traction, and once you loose control of the car, ESP won't do jack.
|
|
|
|
 Today's Posts
Most Active Topics
Make A Donation
Forum Rules & FAQ
RSS Feeds
Audi Prices
Audi Cars
Audi A6  Audi S3
Audi A4 Audi S4
Audi TT Audi S6
Audi Dealers
Audi Clubs
Advertising Info
| |
Printable Version
Today as i pulled out of my driveway I had no problmes getting going but once i hit the brakes ABS just kept kicking it. Here in chicago it snowed in the early morning and I guess while I was taking a nap it rained. So when I walked to my car to go to work I didn't think there was ice on the roads. AWD still beats anything else though! I wanted to open my door at a stop light and see if there was ice on the road cuz it sure as heck didn't feel like it at all 
. Quattro can help you get going but when there is ice, it doens't matter if you're FWD or RWD you're going to slide. There were a total of 6+ accidents that I heard of around my neighborhood. Driver safely eveyrone theres always gonna be that one idiot who does not think about the conditions and may end up rear ending you.
But I know what you mean.
