USA Today Jan 17th pg 48
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USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 7:46:21 AM
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ppgoal
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Interesting article about how automakers boost efficiency without diesel or hybrid technology. And I quote...
"General Motors, Ford Motor, and others are launching big initiatives to get more mileage out of what they sell now: tweaking internal-combustion engines with turbochargers and a technology called gasoline direct injection. The goal is to make fuel-stingy small engines perform like big ones."
It talks about "Turbos,tiny windmills spun by otherwise wasted exhaust; run compressors that blast air into intakes to mix with fuel."
All you 2.7T owners, how does it feel to drive the car of the future already?
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 8:53:09 AM
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caddy2audi
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car of the future they are not. Turbos have been around for years... all car makers at one point or another have had one in their line up... even big rigs are s
I had a buick grand national, and a toyota supra... ive been fortunate to have driven those cars. In my opinion though, i rather not have a turbo or super charged vehicle though... one more thing to worry about breaking down
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 9:25:01 AM
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NH_USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caddy2audi
car of the future they are not. Turbos have been around for years... all car makers at one point or another have had one in their line up... even big rigs are s
I had a buick grand national, and a toyota supra... ive been fortunate to have driven those cars. In my opinion though, i rather not have a turbo or super charged vehicle though... one more thing to worry about breaking down
Caddy2audi -- I think you missed the point! It takes years for American automakers to do what others are doing.
As for turbo life -- I guess to should have have spent more time worrying about the turbo on my Audi 200QT while driving 350K miles without any motor or turbo trouble. Geeezzz I mised out on a good worry! I'll have to do it over again, but this thime I'll worry a lot more!
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 9:33:02 AM
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Limen
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As long as they can make the turbos reliable it should be a good move on their part.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 9:58:14 AM
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caddy2audi
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oh your right... audi invented the wheel, fire, cancer treatments... on and on with audi's inovation and how they dominate everything.
as far as american automakers taking for ever to come up with things... read an automotive history book.... first in hundreds of things that all carmakers use today.
As far as your turbo goes, Im really glad you had awesome outcome... but turbos are known to be an extra worry.... especially if they breakdown....
thats all..... for now
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/18/2008 11:03:31 AM
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NJGOAT
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NH_USA
Caddy2audi -- I think you missed the point! It takes years for American automakers to do what others are doing.
As for turbo life -- I guess to should have have spent more time worrying about the turbo on my Audi 200QT while driving 350K miles without any motor or turbo trouble. Geeezzz I mised out on a good worry! I'll have to do it over again, but this thime I'll worry a lot more!
I hardly think it takes "years" for the American manufacturers to do what other's are doing. Real quick, name me what auto manufacturer debuted a Direct Injection 2.0L turbo motor making 260hp in 2006? Would it be GM...yes it would. Many of the technologies you enjoy in your car were invented by the US auto industry.
The main reason it seems like the American manufacturers lag behind is that unlike the rest of the world, the US has enjoyed cheap gas for decades and no restrictive laws on engine displacement. So, the American's stuck with what works, large displacement V6 and V8 engines. From a performance perspective I'll take a "low tech" LS series small block over almost any other engine out there.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 11:20:37 AM
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Nocturnal_A62.7
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Do you know anyone who owns a new mustang (2005-08)? Ask them how it feels to fill the tank of gas when you have to hold the fuel nozzle at 2 O'clock position, while filling it. How will you feel when you will be holding the nozzle after paying 25 grand for a car.
American makes cars, but Europeans makes piece of art. Why do all the super cars are made in Europe?? List me the inventions by American car manufacturer and I will list the ones by Germans.
I have owned several American cars, before switching over to Europeans. I believe Saturn is an exception, as they build good quality cars. Sorry, have to completly agree with NH_USA.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 12:37:13 PM
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joesette
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In Reply to NH_USA
You should check out the 1962 or 63 (i don't remember which) Odsmobile F85 - water cooled turbocharger on a 215 cubic inch aluminum V8 - that car would be 45 years old now, right? Displacement won, of course.
Nocturnal
When did Chevrolet move production of the Corvette to Europe? Twice the car at half the of ANY eurotrash. It's easy when you make 100 cars a year at $250,000 plus; and don't forget teh $20,000 12,000 mile services.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 5:38:54 PM
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Dreamcatcher78
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joesette
In Reply to NH_USA
You should check out the 1962 or 63 (i don't remember which) Odsmobile F85 - water cooled turbocharger on a 215 cubic inch aluminum V8 - that car would be 45 years old now, right? Displacement won, of course.
Nocturnal
When did Chevrolet move production of the Corvette to Europe? Twice the car at half the of ANY eurotrash. It's easy when you make 100 cars a year at $250,000 plus; and don't forget teh $20,000 12,000 mile services.
you mean to say that Corvette is a supercar?? lol
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 9:25:45 PM
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NJGOAT
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The Vette is supercar performance at an affordable price. While it doesn't match the visceral experience of driving one of the "supercars" like a Ferrari or Porsche, it certainly matches or exceeds the performance. It must be the ultimate in insults to be driving your $250k Scuderia only to spend all day staring at the rear of a $70k Z06.
Also, while enjoy the driving experience in a German car, for the most part they don't match the hard edge performance of an American car. Looks are subjective, so we won't touch that. I just find it funny that the owner of any VW Group product would be questioning American engineering. Christ, even Buicks have superior reliability than any of the Germans with the exception of Porsche.
PS As for holding the fuel nozzle, since I live in Jersey I would never know as we aren't allowed to pump it ourselves.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 9:54:58 PM
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joesette
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And just to really add some sizzle to the discussion, in addition to my A6, I have an E series Benz, an older Vette, and a new Infiniti. Hands down, neither of the german cars holds a candle the G35x, which is as fast to 60 as the Vette!
The Audi and the MB are excellent cars, but as far as I'm concerned, they are WAY over-hyped.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/19/2008 10:27:34 PM
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Batteries
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joesette
And just to really add some sizzle to the discussion, in addition to my A6, I have an E series Benz, an older Vette, and a new Infiniti. Hands down, neither of the german cars holds a candle the G35x, which is as fast to 60 as the Vette!
The Audi and the MB are excellent cars, but as far as I'm concerned, they are WAY over-hyped.
Which Vette would that be? A C4? If you ARE talking about a C4 Vette, it's hardly a performance car anymore. I'm glad you like your G35, but there's more to it than that. You didn't specify which model A6 and Benz you have. The G35 was designed as a sports sedan, while the E-class really wasn't, unless you have an 8-cylinder or AMG version. The A6 should only be compared to the G35 if it has either the 2.7T or 4.2. The 2.8 is simply unfair. That's like comparing a V6 Mustang to a Camaro SS. The Mustang won't hold a candle to it.
If we look past performance, Audi interiors are top notch. Even comparing a 6 (or more) year old Audi to a *new* G35, I wouldn't say that the Audi interior is "dated" by any means. Comparing a current A4/A6 interior to the current G35 is a fairer comparison, and in this regard, the Audi undoubtedly wins, hands down.
So there you have it. I'm not bashing the G35 here. I do like the way it looks (usually) and the performance IS impressive, but there are also some areas where it isn't quite as excellent as you made it out to be.
< Message edited by Batteries -- 1/19/2008 10:32:43 PM >
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/20/2008 12:47:27 AM
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Dreamcatcher78
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NJGOAT
The Vette is supercar performance at an affordable price. While it doesn't match the visceral experience of driving one of the "supercars" like a Ferrari or Porsche, it certainly matches or exceeds the performance. It must be the ultimate in insults to be driving your $250k Scuderia only to spend all day staring at the rear of a $70k Z06.
Also, while enjoy the driving experience in a German car, for the most part they don't match the hard edge performance of an American car. Looks are subjective, so we won't touch that. I just find it funny that the owner of any VW Group product would be questioning American engineering. Christ, even Buicks have superior reliability than any of the Germans with the exception of Porsche.
PS As for holding the fuel nozzle, since I live in Jersey I would never know as we aren't allowed to pump it ourselves.
Well it's worthless to argue with you as you are just another example of ignorant Americans, which makes us look bad sometimes to the rest of the world.
1st, you are dumb enough to even compare Corvette with Ferrari and Porsche. Z06 is crap, just look at the interiors and you will know that the manufacturer didn't even cared to provide the basic quality there...its just tells the mentality of people in detroit...and their attitude in quality... i have driven Ferrari and i know how it feels to be in one of those beauties. you don't know because you have never driven a Ferrari, nor a corvette.
2nd, American engineering superior than Germans? You live in a dream world, and I am not going to wake you up. funny how people will be making fun of you whenever you left the room.
http://www.guba.com/watch/3000009649?pp=5&premium=0&o=4 this video alone should answer everything regarding American muscle, and Audi technology. Enjoy.
3rd, my son who is 23 yrs old believes that Dodge Viper is the best thing that happened to the automobile industry...i don't argue with him anymore.
< Message edited by Dreamcatcher78 -- 1/20/2008 1:34:05 AM >
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/20/2008 10:26:22 AM
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NJGOAT
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dreamcatcher78
Well it's worthless to argue with you as you are just another example of ignorant Americans, which makes us look bad sometimes to the rest of the world.
1st, you are dumb enough to even compare Corvette with Ferrari and Porsche. Z06 is crap, just look at the interiors and you will know that the manufacturer didn't even cared to provide the basic quality there...its just tells the mentality of people in detroit...and their attitude in quality... i have driven Ferrari and i know how it feels to be in one of those beauties. you don't know because you have never driven a Ferrari, nor a corvette.
2nd, American engineering superior than Germans? You live in a dream world, and I am not going to wake you up. funny how people will be making fun of you whenever you left the room.
http://www.guba.com/watch/3000009649?pp=5&premium=0&o=4 this video alone should answer everything regarding American muscle, and Audi technology. Enjoy.
3rd, my son who is 23 yrs old believes that Dodge Viper is the best thing that happened to the automobile industry...i don't argue with him anymore.
Like wise it is useless to argue with you as you are just another example of someone with a holier than thou attitude who thinks that he knows how everyone else should live their life.
1. I never once compared the interior of a Vette with a Ferrari. You are right, the interior of the Ferrari is vastly better. However, I don't find the interior to be worth an extra $100k+. Those are performance cars, plain and simple. I compare them based on performance. On a performance basis the Corvette (particulalry the Z06) deserves mention in the same breath as any supercar. As for the comment on quality, perhaps you should go drive the new CTS or Malibu. You may be surprised at how far Detroit has come. I also like the assumption that you make that I have never driven a Vette or Ferrari. I have driven many Vette's and one Ferrari. The Ferrari was a F430 and while I got a lot of looks in it and the sound track was amazing, the overall performance wasn't anthing amazing....then again maybe I need to be on superior European roads before I can truly appreciate the Ferrari.
2. I never said American engineering was superior, I simply said that Americans aren't the retards you make them about to be. To me engineering is more than just developing a cool gizmo and throwing it in a car. Engineering is about the total package and to that end reliability trumps all. Just flip through a few pages of this forum and read about peoples problems...German engineering at its finest.
3. Your son may not be precisely right on about the Viper being God's gift to the automotive world, but you can't discount it's performance.
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2004 Audi A6 2.7T S-Line - His
2004 Pontiac GTO (12.773 @ 109.72, 1.945 60') - Retired
2003 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 - Hers
http://www.controlled-insanity.net
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/20/2008 10:54:01 AM
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joetm
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maybe we should all define "supercar"? ... having a buttload of power isn't a supercar ... you have to look at the whole package because that is what a car is ... and while every manufacturer tests and retests thier cars ... you have to be in the right element ... GERMANY windy/slippery/cold/unoccupied roads!!
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/20/2008 1:50:45 PM
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Batteries
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dreamcatcher78
1st, you are dumb enough to even compare Corvette with Ferrari and Porsche. Z06 is crap, just look at the interiors and you will know that the manufacturer didn't even cared to provide the basic quality there...its just tells the mentality of people in detroit
Wrong answer. Read ANY car magazine. How can you sit there with a straight face and tell me that you expect a $75,000 Z06 to have THE SAME quality as a $200,000 car? Not to mention that Z06s are mass produced, not hand-built in factories by a team of highly skilled workers. I have to tell you, that was a marvelous argument. For your next one, I recommend you compare a $35 Casio watch to a $1500 Rolex and tell us how "horrible" the Casio is. Genius. Pure genius. A current generation Z06 will wipe the floor with many of these "holier than thou" Supercars that you so adore. Let me school you on some Nurburging lap times (you DO know what that is, correct?) The C6 Z06, ran a time of 7:42.9. Let's see if you can guess what it beat. Oh! That's right, it BEAT a Lamborghini Murcielago. And a Zonda S. AND a Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano.
Wow. You're right. Those Ferraris are untouchable and the Z06 is crap. You totally busted me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dreamcatcher78
2nd, American engineering superior than Germans? You live in a dream world, and I am not going to wake you up.
It's funny how you say that HE lives in a dream world when you're backing up your "Ferrari superiority complex" with the fact that Ferrari interiors are nicer than a Z06s. OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE. Ferraris are LIMITED PRODUCTION cars that are three/four times as expensive as a Z06. Their interiors better be of higher quality than a Z06.
YOU are the one that lives in a dream world, and I just gave you your wake up call.
< Message edited by Batteries -- 1/20/2008 1:57:06 PM >
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 9:25:07 AM
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ppgoal
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Very interesting discussion. I'm surprised at some of the flaming going on.
I just posted it because I thought it was neat that US automakers are moving to smaller enginers with turbos, which is a place that the European carmakers have been for a long time. Even when they do superchargers, the Europeans stick them on a small engine while US automakers design them for BIG block engines.
A 2.7l engine is pretty small (165 cid) but with a chip mine makes 318 hp. That's a lot compared to most American sixes at (average) 3.8l and a couple hundred horse, and probably more than most small V8s. And for ****s and grins, this past weekend I picked up a Crossfire SRT6 with a 3.2l six, a supercharger, and 330hp. Looking forward to summer when I can drive it.
_____________________________
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Velocity RS4 Replica Rims
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 10:11:53 AM
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caddy2audi
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If you want to talk about the most superior machines out there, there should be no question in anyones mind who makes the best out there.
the japanese do... toyota, honda... and their upscale brands. They are the most reliable, and most bang for your buck in the long haul....period. they simply cant be touched right now when you take reliability into account. my camry has 200k on it and idles WAY better than my audi with 50K on it.
Are Audis nice cars... . yes, thats why i bought one, (but never will again)
Are they the best cars ever made.... Heck no!!!!!
Are American cars better than Euro ones.... yeah, some are... many arent .
Are American cars worst brand ever? Heck no!!!! (look up Yugo's)
This forum in general tends to be anti-american brands... but trust me, after buying an audi, and haven driven about every car maker (even a ferrari once ), they are way over talked. My caddy before had better options, ride, acceleration, and overall comfort than my audi now... and that car was 6 years older!!!
Again, these German cars are nice, but far from superior to japanese, and i would rate them just below american.
American were the leaders for dozens of years, and if they keep going the way they are, they will be again.
Funny how ive never seen an audi go for 600K on car auctions, but once a classic dodge hits the floor, those prices fly.
HMMMM interesting!!!
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 10:31:29 AM
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caddy2audi
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also.... and this is just a question, in terms of how advanced the germans are,
where is the german hybrid?
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 11:12:59 AM
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Batteries
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quote:
ORIGINAL: caddy2audi
also.... and this is just a question, in terms of how advanced the germans are,
where is the german hybrid?
The Germans don't really "believe" in hybrids. They have good reason not to, though. Many of their small diesel models (in Europe) get better mileage than the American hybrids. I've seen reports of up to 70 miles per gallon highway for one of the diesel VW Polos. Diesels are also especially popular in Europe because diesel fuel is generally cheaper than regular unleaded there. In the U.S., the opposite is usually true these days, with regular unleaded being cheaper than diesel. I seriously don't understand why Americans don't "trust" diesel technology. I'm an American and I would love it if there were some more diesel options.
Top Gear (a British TV show) did a test of a European Audi A8 with the Twin Turbo Diesel V8. Astonishingly, it averaged about 40 mpg on the highway. Not even a Civic/Corolla can match that. It also travelled 800 miles on a single (!!!!!) tank of fuel.
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 11:44:42 AM
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Limen
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The new GTR is going to redifine the word "supercar" It completely dominated the Nurburging track with full-out supercar numbers. The Z06 time was pretty far behind the GTR time.
I say go Japan!!
_____________________________
2001 Audi A6 4.2 Quattro - My Daily Driver
1997 Lexus ES300 - Fullout sound system - Girllyfriends ride
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 12:30:00 PM
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Batteries
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Limen
The new GTR is going to redifine the word "supercar" It completely dominated the Nurburging track with full-out supercar numbers. The Z06 time was pretty far behind the GTR time.
True. I really think it's unbelievable that they are going to produce the GTR and it's only gonna cost $65-$75k. It does 0-60 in as low as 3.3 seconds and laps the Nurburging faster than a Ford GT and Z06.
I mean, that's faster than pretty much ANY supercar. It's ridiculous. It's kind of "bad" in a sense. Even a Stage III S4 will get completely destroyed by a *stock* GTR. What's up with that...? Vipers, Z06s, Murcielagos, Gallardos, 599GTBs, 911 Turbos, RS4s, R8s all going down in flames?!?!?!!?! WHAT'S GOING ON HERE!!
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RE: USA Today Jan 17th pg 48 - 1/21/2008 1:41:44 PM
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caddy2audi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Batteries
quote:
ORIGINAL: caddy2audi
also.... and this is just a question, in terms of how advanced the germans are,
where is the german hybrid?
The Germans don't really "believe" in hybrids. They have good reason not to, though. Many of their small diesel models (in Europe) get better mileage than the American hybrids. I've seen reports of up to 70 miles per gallon highway for one of the diesel VW Polos. Diesels are also especially popular in Europe because diesel fuel is generally cheaper than regular unleaded there. In the U.S., the opposite is usually true these days, with regular unleaded being cheaper than diesel. I seriously don't understand why Americans don't "trust" diesel technology. I'm an American and I would love it if there were some more diesel options.
Top Gear (a British TV show) did a test of a European Audi A8 with the Twin Turbo Diesel V8. Astonishingly, it averaged about 40 mpg on the highway. Not even a Civic/Corolla can match that. It also travelled 800 miles on a single (!!!!!) tank of fuel.
Yeah, diesel is definately not utilized like it should... i guess there is a reason why all semi's use diesel right? for fuel mileage? I think even new diesel engines get rid of the smoke & smell????
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