new to the audi scene, didnt actually buy one yet. I'm looking at a 2000 2.7t for a good price and if i can get it for what their asking i'm hoping to jump right into adding k04s was just wondering what the oem part number is for them or the bw part number since there is a bw dealer close to me and i planned on pricing it from them and then picking up the install kits vast makes or some combo of the sorts
I just bought (last week) a 2000 2.7t with 73K and all the toys for arround 10K took me ages to find but feels like a strong car. I am sorry I can not shead any light onto the turbo question but i know there was a link on www.audidiy.com to an ebay seller who had some at a good price. James
Yeh ive seen the kits from vast, apr, and who ever else sells them but i was wondering if anyone tried ordering direct from BW since i saw vast sells the gasket and part kits and then just pull the engine my self since ive had a turbo car before and a couple of buddies who recently graduated college with automotive degrees.
K04's on stock ECU software will not really yield you any better results. If you were to do like an "RS4 Upgrade" from Apr or alternative, it would include everything you need (fuel pump, injectors, turbo plumbing and hardware, etc...) plus additional programs for the K04 turbo. I have talked to people who said they have upgraded to the K04 from blown K03's, but gains have been minimal.
OOOO
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Spec Stage II Clutch and Aluminum Flywheel, APR Software, APR Snub Mount, APR Downpipes and Test Pipes with Milltek Cat Back, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, K&N Drop In (Temp).
What do you mean gains have been minimal? I am new to the audi world as well and i'm wondering whether to buy an a6 for the space or an s4 for the all out performance. I was on the phone with APR and they said that if I get an A6 tiptronic, I could put the STAGE III turbo upgrade on it and get a torque converter. Now would that be worthwhile on a car that is exceptionally heavy?
Minimal meaning not much in gains in HP. Remember your cars ECU is set for K03's not K04's. You will need to modify the software in your ECU to accommodate the K04's. K04's produce more boost then the K03. If you install K04's and your ECU is stock, the K04's will not run to their full potential, that is why you need to modify your cars ECU.
OOOO
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Spec Stage II Clutch and Aluminum Flywheel, APR Software, APR Snub Mount, APR Downpipes and Test Pipes with Milltek Cat Back, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, K&N Drop In (Temp).
The goods news is that you don't have to be a software engineer to modify your software. GIAC, APR, MTM all have it for you :) Probably a "duh" but no one mentioned it yet.
If you're going to be carrying passengers than the A6 is the way to go. Even the 90lb girls that ride in my backseat have space issues. A tuned A6 can really move too.
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If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough - Mario Andretti
Stage I B5 S4 gone but not forgotten :(
Current ride: Chevy Colorado Z71 4x4 "Are you sure you're pushing the skinny pedal?"
So when you get a chip from like GIAC do they have a seperate chip for upgraded turbo's or can you get a chip for K03's and then when you upgrade they can send you some software or something?
im ready to buy k04s ... what do i need besides the 2 turbos fuel pump? hoses? will they bolt right on or do i need some sort of mounting kit? any recommendations on software?
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-Joe
2002 a6 2.7t / GIAC / REMUS / AWE-Tuning s-flo intake / bailey's DVs / vast stage 3 tip chip /vast piggies / obx manifolds / k04's and rs4 ecu platform to come soon!
Posts: 648
Joined: 1/29/2008 From: St. Louis, MO Status: offline
OK as for software, the place i got my APR software installed told me that if i ever wanted to add anything it is only $50 a program. I asked if he carried K04 software and he told me that APR he does and if i ever wanted to add it, it would take about 10 minutes. (and you can switch programs from cruise control)
im ready to buy k04s ... what do i need besides the 2 turbos fuel pump? hoses? will they bolt right on or do i need some sort of mounting kit? any recommendations on software?
I would say fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, injectors and silicone hoses or piping to handle the added boost. I've been using APR for awhile now and I love it, but GIAC, AWE and MTM are available as well.
OOOO
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Spec Stage II Clutch and Aluminum Flywheel, APR Software, APR Snub Mount, APR Downpipes and Test Pipes with Milltek Cat Back, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, K&N Drop In (Temp).
K04s are generally $2,500 for a pair, and about 30 hours of labor to install them.
$2500 for a pair is a lot less than I expected. What else does a person need in addition to the turbos? If figure if my stockers go boom, I may as well opt for the K04s.
Would this also be a good time to install the timing belt since the engine has to be pulled for the turbo install?
Does anyone know if there is a write up of the whole swap process along with associated costs and expected hp gains?
ORIGINAL: Costner $2500 for a pair is a lot less than I expected. What else does a person need in addition to the turbos? If figure if my stockers go boom, I may as well opt for the K04s.
http://www.avalonmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2_11&products_id=2 There's EVERYTHING you need. =) That'll get you running on K04s. You'll want/need a retune of the ECU. You can contact any of your preferred vendors (GIAC, MTM, APR, VAST) and they'll have a K04 file for you. You'll just have to make sure to let them know that you're only running K04s, not fueling or anything, so they send you the right chip without too much boost. And then, if you have the desire to do so, down the road you can purchase a seperate fueling kit from AWE/APR/ECS/VAST and get a re-tune of the ECU to adapt to the fueling kit that you just installed. At that point, I don't think it costs too much to re-tune. The initial stand-alone K04 file will probably cost about $600, but then the "future" fueling kit re-tune should only run about half of that (as far as I know).
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ORIGINAL: Costner Would this also be a good time to install the timing belt since the engine has to be pulled for the turbo install?
Yes. It's an absolutely ideal time to do the timing belt, since turbo installation is even more involved than that, and you'll be right there anyway. It's also a great time to do it because you're maximizing your access. A shop won't/can't charge you much for the timing belt work because they already have to remove everything for the turbos anyway, so just slipping the new belt on really won't cost much. If you did the timing belt seperately, they'd charge you a buttload just to get access to all that stuff, and then when you went to get turbos done, they'd have to take out the same stuff all over again, and then they'd charge you.....all over again. $$$$
If you do get the timing belt done, I suggest that you seek out and buy your own kit from a reputable source. Avalon sells one. ECS sells one. They both use exact OEM parts. If you let your shop pick and choose, they might use some cheap stuff that isn't really up to spec.
ORIGINAL: Costner Does anyone know if there is a write up of the whole swap process along with associated costs and expected hp gains?
Yeah, there's a write up of an engine pull here: http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng.html (The 9th entry from the top on that page) That's for the S4, but it's essentially the same exact procedure for the A6 2.7T. It's not generally recommended to do an engine pull by yourself unless you have some wrenching experience. I've heard it's not TOO difficult, there is just lots and lots of stuff to remove. If you're up to the challenge though, go for it! (and take pics and document it! )
Expected HP gains with just a straight K04 swap + standard K04 ECU tune (no fueling) will probably be around 320-330 horsepower...? Downpipes and Exhaust will add about 40 combined to that number, so you'll be at around 360-370 with DPs and exhaust. With a fueling kit, you can be pushing anywhere from 460 to 500 (at the crank, ofcourse) depending on race gas, tuning, boost level, etc.
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Joined: 9/8/2006 From: Holland MI Status: offline
Batteries - this is great information and a helpful site. You said expect 320-330 hp with the K04s and a K04 tune. My GIAC chip is supposed to get 318 hp out of my otherwise stock engine. I guess I would have expected more hp going with the larger turbos and a K04 program from GIAC. I think I'll email them and pose that very question.
Otherwise, I can't see spending $3-4k for another 2-12 hp.
Posts: 697
Joined: 9/8/2006 From: Holland MI Status: offline
Found this through the GIAC site, Note estd 440hp. That might be worth $3-4k. Still to be determined if it will fit the A6 and later years such as my 2003.
GIAC created custom software for AWE Tuning’s Audi® S4™ RSK04 turbo upgrade project. The national press and owners agree: no other Audi® S4™ tuning package can touch the power and drivability of the AWE Tuning RSK04 turbo kit. Based on calibrated BorgWarner K04 turbochargers from the Europe-only Audi® RS4, the RSK04 turbo kit produces an astounding 440 hp and 420 torque on pump fuel as tested on the AWE Tuning chassis dyno, with full torque available as low as 2900 rpms. The RSK04 turbo kit transforms a competent sedan into a world class supercar.
SPECS
Custom GIAC proprietary software with optional Mobile Tuner technology
Precision calibrated BorgWarner K04 turbos with inlet tubes
CAD designed Mass Air Flow housing
Custom silicone intake hose
Bosch fuel injector set, flow balanced
AWE tubular exhaust manifolds with anti-reversion collectors and Swain Tech ceramic coating
PERFORMANCE
440 hp / 420 torque on pump fuel, 510 hp / 500 torque on race fuel
90 hp and 60 ft/lbs. of torque increase as compared to stock turbos on typical chip
No loss of low end torque as compared to stock turbos on typical chip
No turbo lag
High 11 second quarter mile times posted by owners on race fuel
RECOMENDED UPGRADES
Exhaust System: A full turbo back exhaust is required for safe use of our kit, and there is no better combination out there than the AWE downpipes and AWE Tuning cat back exhaust systems.
Clutch: Highly recommended to cope with the extra torque. Our Stage 3 clutch kit is an excellent choice, especially paired with our lightweight aluminum flywheel.
Brakes: The kit produces enough power to make the OEM brakes marginal. AWE Tuning recommends a Brembo front brake kit upgrade.
Diverter Valves: Upgraded diverter valves are highly recommended even for stock S4s, let alone our RSK04 kit. AWE Tuning highly recommends Bailey Motorsport diverter valves.
Cooling: An intercooler kit is almost mandatory when running high boost on the Audi® S4. AWE Tuning recommends the AWE intercooler kit.
Boost Gauge: A boost gauge is a handy way to keep tabs on the pressure these big turbos are making, and AWE Tuning recommends our vent mounted boost gauge kit.
Batteries - this is great information and a helpful site. You said expect 320-330 hp with the K04s and a K04 tune. My GIAC chip is supposed to get 318 hp out of my otherwise stock engine. I guess I would have expected more hp going with the larger turbos and a K04 program from GIAC. I think I'll email them and pose that very question.
Otherwise, I can't see spending $3-4k for another 2-12 hp.
Yeah, I'm sorry for confusing you. The estimate that I made (330 hp) was based on the fact that when you buy the *base level* K04 kit from a place like Avalon or ECS, it only comes with K04 turbos and the hardware to install them. That's it. http://awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_detail.cfm?PMaI=1&PMoI=4&PEI=6&PP=s4_27t_drivetrain.cfm&PPT=Drivetrain&IL=rsk04 If you look at the AWE page I just linked, you can see that there are a bunch of listings there where it says "add to cart." If you look closely, you can see that they list a "fueling kit" for about $2,500. That's what actually gets your horsepower up to 450+. Without that fueling kit, you won't be close to those numbers, which is why I estimated it at about 330hp.
Even with the dedicated K04 file from AWE or someone else, there is only so much they can do for you when they know that you don't have a fueling kit, so they keep the boost in their chips at somewhat conservative levels until you call them again to tell them that you've done all the prep-work, installed all the supporting hardware, and THEN they'll send you out a revised K04 file, which WILL put you at about 450 hp (in addition to the gains that the actual fueling kit provides, ofcourse. It's not only a different chip that physically raises the horsepower. The fueling kit itself actually does most of that.)
A K04 is a K04, so the ones from Avalon will get to 450 hp, you'll just have to buy a fueling kit to reach it from your choice of vendor. AWE is very good. APR is very good as well (some reports say they aren't *quite* as aggressive as AWE).
The great thing about upgrading to K04s by using a base level kit like the Avalon one, is that you can spread out the cost of upgrades over time. You'll have K04s and be putting down decent power when chipped, but when you feel up to it, you can spend the money on the fueling kit and really give it a boost (no pun intended). There is no rush, though, to get the fueling kit. It's purely an option. If you just want to upgrade to K04s, reflash the ECU and call it a day, they will work perfectly and your car won't have any problems. If you want more power down the road, though, the fueling kit is your answer, and you can do it at virtually any time you feel like it.
Hopefully you understood that.
< Message edited by Batteries -- 2/16/2008 1:14:06 PM >
so i have a giac chip now ... i ordered the k04 kit from avalon and that is it for now ... fueling kit to come wen i can afford it ... my question is when i get the upgrade from giac i will b at 330hp bc of no fueling kit ... wen i buy the fueling kit will i have to upgrade my giac chip again?
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-Joe
2002 a6 2.7t / GIAC / REMUS / AWE-Tuning s-flo intake / bailey's DVs / vast stage 3 tip chip /vast piggies / obx manifolds / k04's and rs4 ecu platform to come soon!
so i have a giac chip now ... i ordered the k04 kit from avalon and that is it for now ... fueling kit to come wen i can afford it ... my question is when i get the upgrade from giac i will b at 330hp bc of no fueling kit ... wen i buy the fueling kit will i have to upgrade my giac chip again?
You're all set, pretty much. I'm not sure which GIAC chip you got (the K03 program? the K04 program?). It'll run fine on either of those, and have similar power, since the GIAC K03 program is already pretty aggressive. When you buy the fueling kit in the future, it would be a good idea to upgrade your chip again, yes. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe I've heard that they sometimes won't charge you full price ($599) if you're just upgrading the programs, since you bought from GIAC originally, and all they are doing is reflashing, not giving you a whole new ECU. I'm really not sure, though.
I wish someone who has actually gone through the whole process of doing a non-Stage III K04 upgrade would chime in.
ok so i made some calls to awe and other turbo shops and what i know for sure is that the giac chip upgrade only costs 200$ instead of 799$ (thank god) full exhaust is required(manifold, downpipes, and catback) and:
stage three minus: 400hp 2-k04s with rs4 inlet pipes mounting hardware ecu programming
to go stage three +: 500+ hp 2-k04s with rs4 inlet pipes mounting hardware k04 ecu programming fuel kit(fuel pump injectors spark plugs bigger MAF and new Y-pipe connector) upgraded hoses a few transmission upgrades depending upon manual or auto rs4 intercoolers
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-Joe
2002 a6 2.7t / GIAC / REMUS / AWE-Tuning s-flo intake / bailey's DVs / vast stage 3 tip chip /vast piggies / obx manifolds / k04's and rs4 ecu platform to come soon!
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K04 (probably been answered) - 
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