RE: Group Buy Water/meth
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 3:33:02 AM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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quote:
ORIGINAL: achTTung
Is it really a noticable difference with the nozzle mounted on top of the TB?
I really can't tell and didn't take any kind of measurements before (and don't really want to switch it back), but I like posting pictures. j/k 
It's just as I thought about it, the velocity of the intake air is probably greater at the point where the throttle plate starts to open than from the side where it's more diffused. I'm thinking spraying from the top will cause better dispersion of water, but I could be completely wrong. Maybe there are some fluid or aerodynamics engineers out there who can chime in, or some engineering students who need an idea for a class project.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 3:08:21 PM
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achTTung
Posts: 3272
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From: Burlington, VT
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Makes sense. Also no chance of water pooling around the orifice. I have a water only cutting head for the waterjet at work, blasts out a stream of water that looks like fishing line. Believe its a .004" diameter orifice, with 60,000psi of water behind it. If water splashes back at the head and drips to the orifice (lowest point) that strand of silk looks more like a piece of dental floss. Doesn't really make a difference on the jet, its still 60,000 psi, which is gonna cut regardless, but that illustrates the difference in spray pattern. A side or bottom mounted nozzle I'd assume could accumulate more water around the orifice, possibly ruining the atomizing effect.
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 4:24:13 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
Posts: 4402
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UMMM..............
So I don't know if anyone else did this wrong too... BUT I figured out what cause all my problems and it WAS in fact the W/M Kit.....
Here is what happened... When i was installing the W/M kit the nozzles have that little screen thing on them... WELL I guess those are NOT supposed to be put into the air stream... SO thats right apparently I put the nozzles' in upside-down and you guessed it one came off and got sucked through the engine... THUS bending an intake valve, destroying a piston and possibly the turbo... We can't see the turbo however so don't know for sure...
SO if anyone else made the stupid mistake like me of installing the nozzle upside-down, SWITCH IT ASAP!!!!!!!!
I called Devils own and they said "Sorry... we can't do anything..." It would have been nice if they showed some instructions on how the nozzle is supposed to me mounted for people like me who have not done one of these setups before.
SO yeah... this freaking freaking freaking sucks.
Josh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 6:25:21 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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 Man-o-man! I can see how that would happen, especially if you've not done this stuff before. Since the nozzle is threaded on both ends, it can screw in either way. I want to say, "how dumb", but I really can't. What a bummer. I'm suprised that little piece did so much damage.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 7:30:50 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
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Yeah that picture you posted was posted on the Devils Own website about 20 min AFTER I called them about the problem. SO apparently they must be pretty worried about it since they posted that so fast.
Josh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 7:35:16 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
Posts: 4402
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I just got back from the shop and it is not good at all...
So far it destroyed a valve, the piston, and the turbo on that side has a LOT of play in the shaft... like a lot! It hits the side walls if you pull up on the shaft a bit and turn it.
The drivers side turbo is also on it's way out... it's leaking a good amount of oil. SO i think new turbo's is in the feature. I might even do my custom turbo setup now but I am not sure yet...
I will post pictures of the damage.
Josh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 7:37:01 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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Yeh, I saw your post there first.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 7:39:50 PM
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exTTreme
Posts: 219
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The guys at devils own prolly posted the picture to make sure no one else does the backwards nozzle on mistake you might have been the first to do it and call them about it sucks that such a small filter could do that much damage I'm glad you posted that though because I think I had it layed out to be installed the same way
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2001 Aviator Gray 225Q
soon to be GT3076R Powered
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 7:52:30 PM
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achTTung
Posts: 3272
Joined: 9/26/2005
From: Burlington, VT
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I had a friend blow an engine (I've posted this before, its more for newer guys) from a small piece of metal. Wrong heat range plugs, and the ground strap broke off. Chipped a piece off a valve, and then the valve chunk and the spark plug chunk bounced around inside his turbo, taking out some fins there.
No matter what the situation, not fun.... Sorry to hear about your car.
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 8:24:32 PM
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devilsown
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ThePaintballGuy, This is chance "rocket468 on our fourm" I am the one you spoke with. I am sorry this has happened to you. Its something i never for saw happening. We don't want our users to have this problem. Bilal "dvldoc" i see saw you post and took some pics, I have not even spoken to him yet. These nozzles are a pretty new item for us, and this is the first I have ran across being mounted this way.
With devilsown moving building i been nuts busy. Bilal is in guam "activy miltary" so it pretty much just me and i been meaing to get on here and answer questions had no idea there was 12 pages of discussion. Sorry for the lack of support for me. I just wanted to get on here and post up and make sure no one else had the nozzles mounted backwards. I was told that others did and i don't want this happening.
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/9/2008 9:37:37 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
Posts: 4402
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Here are some pictures of the damage... Can you guess which cylinder it was? And there is a bent valve but it's hard to see in the pictures.
Pics:
Josh
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/10/2008 2:56:42 AM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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It looks like you have two bent intake valves (maybe all three) and a beat up piston surface. If you didn't find any tiny metal parts, the turbo probably toast, too. I assume the other cylinders are ok. There are some k04 kits that are probably less or about the price of replacing the k03. I know money doesn't grow on trees, but since you are already paying for the labor, now it the unexpected time to make any upgrades. (Not much of a silver lining, I know.)
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/12/2008 4:47:24 PM
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JettaRedII
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I've been pretty happy with this kit and ordered another for my A4. In this case, I want to see if I can run 87 octane with water successfully.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/17/2008 4:16:53 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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I upped my timing to 4.5 degrees. Here are the results for a full throttle 2500-6500 rpm run in third gear.
I have the water coming on really early at 3 psi and I'm full on at around 7 psi. No bogging or misfires and NO TIMING PULL!!! (All you can see on the graph is the boost.)
In all honesty, I did get momentary 8.3 degree pull in cylinder 4 right as I was coming off throttle.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/17/2008 4:36:58 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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Here's an interesting graph. I was actually going uphill and passed a car. If I remember, this was probably a 4th gear pull. I did get some timing pull.
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/17/2008 5:22:10 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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:EEK: No, no, no. Don't do that. Keep the screen filter away from the inside of the engine. The screen filter should always point back toward the pump!
< Message edited by JettaRedII -- 5/17/2008 5:30:10 PM >
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/17/2008 6:51:44 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
Posts: 4402
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Yeah that screen filter is what came off and went through my engine. DON'T PUT IT ON THAT WAY!!!!! SCREEN FILTER INSIDE!!! Not out!
Josh
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/17/2008 7:08:24 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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So, what's the update on your car?
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 3:01:55 AM
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Mobius97
Posts: 409
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Thanks! So I should do it as follows.....check valve>elbow>nozzle with screen side screwed into elbow>throttle body adapter plate. Man we could have had another go down!!! Hate to hear about your troubles paintballguy.....I would have put it the same way! When I was playing around with my kit I had it screen side screwing into the throttle body adapter. The end of the screen side was flush with the inner circle of the adapter plate. Hmmm....maybe I will just pay a known VW/Audi shop with experience to install the kit because I have no problem admitting my ignorance on with W/M. A few extra bones might be worth it.
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 4:53:53 AM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mobius97
... Hmmm....maybe I will just pay a known VW/Audi shop with experience to install the kit because I have no problem admitting my ignorance on with W/M. A few extra bones might be worth it.
Do what you feel is comfortable, but you don't need to be afraid of this. Just read all the stuff concerning this install and ask questions if you are uncertain. Call Devil's Own and ask. Here's a post on my install.
The biggest challenge (after mounting everything), I think, is splicing into the MAP control signal. Don't use the quick connector that comes with the kit--it's too big for our skinny wires. But carefully strip the insulation off and solder it. (I used a razor blade to carefully cut the insulation without cutting the metal strands of wire.)
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 12:21:11 PM
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ThePaintballGuy
Posts: 4402
Joined: 8/25/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JettaRedII
So, what's the update on your car?
The car is still down. I will be going to the shop on Thursday to finish putting it back together. SO HOpefully I will be driving it again soon. Once I get it back though I am selling it. I can not afford the car. I should not have bought it.
Josh
_____________________________
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonardo DaVinci
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the ground with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and will always want to be."
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 12:54:20 PM
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achTTung
Posts: 3272
Joined: 9/26/2005
From: Burlington, VT
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that sucks. thoughts on next car?
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 3:21:22 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
Joined: 8/27/2005
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Here are a couple more 3rd gear pulls. The first run is at 4.5 degrees advance timing and the second is at 3.75 degrees advance. Both are with the larger 5 gph nozzle. They were done within 10 or 15 minutes of each other. (Boost is the crimson line.)
< Message edited by JettaRedII -- 5/18/2008 3:40:17 PM >
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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RE: Group Buy Water/meth - 5/18/2008 3:25:23 PM
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JettaRedII
Posts: 626
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Here are the two 4.5 degree pulls with different nozzles. However, they were on different days.
< Message edited by JettaRedII -- 5/18/2008 3:39:36 PM >
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2004 Audi TT 225Q GIAC, Forge 007, Neuspeed 19mm RSB, 42DD DP, BoostMachine, Haldex Blue, Devil's Own WI
1999.5 Audi A4 1.8TQ Neuspeed 1
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