Hey guys. Be honest with u, didnt do any research, just little here and there, simply dont have time so figure i will start new thread. Just got my A6, stock as far as i know. And i need to add some balls to it, after all thats why i got 2.7t. After basic stuff like exhaust and intake, what alse add up noticeble power? I heard main thing is a chip and 2 main ones are APR and GIAK. Wich one will add more power with beeing some what safe? And wich one got that flip switch tune (91-93 or high octane and how high can i go?)? I heard just with the chip and race gas tune it may put down close to 300 hp to the wheels, true or false? Thanx for any input.

The chips available for our 2.7T are pretty much the same as far as performance goes. GIAC and APR are the most common. I have had both. I prefer the APR for the more stock like drivability until you hit the gas pedal, plus I love the ability to change between programs thru your cruise control. The GIAC is a more aggressive program. Chips are the most bang for the buck in regards to power. I would change certain things before you chip because the factory components will fail on you due to the added boost from the turbo's. You will certainly want to change your TBB to a Samco, your DV's withBaileys, 710N's, Forge, APR or Hyperboost, either a drop in air filter (K&N or ITG) or a cold air intake. Also remember that chipping the car puts added stress on the turbo's, so drive easy on start up until the engine oil heats up (175 degress) and drive easy before shut down to start the cooling process. Use a high grade synthetic oil every 5,000 miles.....Elf, Amsoil, Pentosin, etc....I use Motul, love that motor oil! From there, you might want to upgrade your clutch/flywheel along with downpipes and catback exhaust, APR snub mount, the list goes on......

OOOO

not 300 to the wheels but 300+ at the crank

It'll takea lot to get 300 at the wheels on these cars as it is fair to assume a 25% powerloss thru the drivetrain...

I personally like the APR chip as it is powerful yet smooth (good match for an A6, after all we're not driving jap econoboxes), plus it has several programs you can switch b/w using the cruise control. I even have the fault code eraser and throttle body alignment program.
As said above, you should definitely chnage the TBB with the Samco TBB or get the APR Bipipe. Also chnage the stock DVs to the 710N for the TT if you want to save $ (I think theyused to be$45-50?) or go for APR or Hyperboost. I've had both, really no difference on driving but the APR is maintenance free. 320 hp/380lbs Tq

next for performance, get the VAST Performance Piggy pipes for $350 + labor.
Third, is catback..
The above will put you at stage 2 +.. Maybe around 350ishHP and about 400Lbs Tq. car will hav emore low end grunt and less power drop off after 5k, which is the case wit the chip only.
Drop in filter is fine but really don't expect a diff.
Save your $ on CAI... not worth it on our car... you can use that $ for another mod.

I personally really liked the NewSouth Powergaskets, got more torque and alittle extra power, which I could feel.

Finally, I recently got the stage 2 Tip Chip fro VAST and am waiting for their stage 3 file. Should be in my mailbox when i return home. Anyway, they remove the TQ limiter and make adjustments that allow the car/tranny to make the most of your power and shift faster. You can actually tell the difference as oppposed to what I heard about the GIAC chip. My car feels like it HAS more power.

Good Response Gigi, You have been a big help for me and your advice is great! I have a local shop that will do custom piggies for $125, but the o2 sensors are not relocated so it will most likely throw a CEL. Does that fault code eraser fix that?

As for an air filter I added the K&N drop in and it was a PITA but no real power gains. I have noticed the turbo spool is a little more noticable and god I love that sound.

What is the Throttle Body allignment program?

Also I am thinking of putting 2.5" stainless cat-back straight back to new magnaflow mufflers (oval tips) How much should I expect to pay for that alone? I can't afford a Militech cat back or anything like that so a custom is all I can do!

Thanks in Advance :D

This is all really good advice for anyone who wants to mod the 2.7t such as myself. Im considering the APR over the GIAC. Sort of a newb question sorry, but whats a TBB? Im thinking it has to do with the timing belt? Where could I get the TT dv's?

Is there a potential problem with doing engine back upgrading with a biturbo motor? Do the stock DP's/Catback act as a bottleneck if the boost is increased via chipping? I wasnt sure if there were any backpressure related problems if you dont first change your exhaust setup.

I want the power, but i want a daily driver to hehe.

Throttle body Boot = TBB

Slum, Yes there is some, but not enough to cause problems. People have been getting piggies from VASTPERFORMANCE.com which is a gutted precat on the downpipe to allow more flow... I am actually geting this done fairly soon. I think this is one of thoes threads that should be stickied! I think we should do a common question thread ie. Chipping (upgrades w/ chipping)

Power wise you will see big gains with any chip I would stick with the big 3

APR
VAST
GIAC

deffinitly get the piggies I would not make them you self for several reasons

1 CEL
2 bad gas mileage due to a improper reading 2nd 02..the rear 02's control long term fuel adjustment.
3 they have made hundreds if not thousands of them. Better to pay a few dollars more and have a relationship with a respected tuner than to save a few dollars and not have a properly working part...The CEL gets old real quick

Deffinitly get the VAST TIP chip if you have a tip. other wise you are not getting full power out of the chip you choose.
The GIAC tip chip is not worth paying for. After I did mine a friend got all excited about the shifting and performance I got with my VAST tip chip. He got a GIAC one and to be honist I don't know how they charge money for that compaired to the VAST one

Also when you get the chip get the intake spacers deffinitly a great Idea

I have an APR chip on the way (91 octane since that's all we get her in SoCal[&:]), along with a Samco TBB, and a pair of 710Ns for my 2000 A6 2.7T.
What spark plugs would you guys recommend for everyday driving in L.A. traffic with some highway fun thrown in? Also what is the optimum gap? TIA!

I should be installing within the next couple of weeks. I'try to take a bunch of pix and post.

^ cool, get a few coil packs now, so you're ready when they start going.

NGK - Spark Plugs (#PFR6Q)
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/images/dis/1050/600/1050.jpg

ORIGINAL: GDET09

This is all really good advice for anyone who wants to mod the 2.7t such as myself. Im considering the APR over the GIAC. Sort of a newb question sorry, but whats a TBB? Im thinking it has to do with the timing belt? Where could I get the TT dv's?


It is the throttle body boot which is prone to failure on our cars, Samco makes an upgrade. Or replace it long with the front plastic bipipe withe APR bipipe which connects directly to the throttlw body, no boot, It is one solid piece... no expansion with temprature....
I like it,

YOu can get the 710N;s from the dealer or various websites like ecstuning, they are 44$ vs 120-16 for aftermarkets ones see libnk below and chose.
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/pagebuild_v2.cgi?make=Audi&engine=2.7T&model=C5%20 A6&submodel=Quattro&category=Engine&subcategory=In take

ORIGINAL: trapped
Good Response Gigi, You have been a big help for me and your advice is great! I have a local shop that will do custom piggies for $125, but the o2 sensors are not relocated so it will most likely throw a CEL. Does that fault code eraser fix that?
As for an air filter I added the K&N drop in and it was a PITA but no real power gains. I have noticed the turbo spool is a little more noticable and god I love that sound.

What is the Throttle Body allignment program?

Also I am thinking of putting 2.5" stainless cat-back straight back to new magnaflow mufflers (oval tips) How much should I expect to pay for that alone? I can't afford a Militech cat back or anything like that so a custom is all I can do!
Thanks in Advance :D

Thanks. I would be careful of local shops doing this for 125$, it is a lot of work... YUO need the 02 bungs relocated, then get the slcack from you stock O2 sensor wires and you won't have any problems at all. Seriously, I would pay more and get VAST's unless you are 100% sure about the guys who is going to do the work. The fault cide eraser will make your cel go away but if you have a )2 issue, it'll come back.
I have the K&N drop in as well and can't feel any difference at all. but I did not expect any so no biggy.
The throttle body alignment allows yuo to do just that... I had to do mine after the battery was disconnected for a while, idle was off too. That fixed it. People typically do this with a VAGCOM.
Not sure how much you'll pay for yuor catback but some members here or on Audizine ahve done it... varies per shop.. maybe 500-700??

ORIGINAL: Slurm

Is there a potential problem with doing engine back upgrading with a biturbo motor? Do the stock DP's/Catback act as a bottleneck if the boost is increased via chipping? I wasnt sure if there were any backpressure related problems if you dont first change your exhaust setup.

I want the power, but i want a daily driver to hehe.


Mine is a daily driver and I haul the kids around with it. No issues. Especially with the APR chip, which is so smooth and has stock drivability.
Getting piggy pipes or DPs will definitely help though by reducing the heat build up behind the turbos.
APR chip for stage 1 goes to 1.0 bar so nothing insane...some stage 3 guys are at 23-25 lbs of boost!

hey guys! im back! want to say thanx for all the input provided. Alot of good info. i come from muscle car scene, priveously had a 11 sec 500 horse cobra that is gone now:(, so i dont know much about audis but will do my research.
So by far thats the things that im thinking of and please correct me if im wrong:
1. Work on the exhaust setup (i want those turbos to last), im more of a custom exhaust guy so i would get with my local trusted shop to see what they can do. Thinking more of just cuting out the cats keeping O2 housing in the place, and replacing muflers with 2.5 magnapacks. im just afraid it would be to loud.
2. After done with exhaust, get throtle body spacer, replace those bipies with APR peace and put a drop in K&N.
3. Deverter valves.......now here the thing: i heard that u can actualy run blow off valse but just those with the closed cerculation (closed at idle). I simply like them more for that released air sound. But dont know what beeter performance wise and safety.
4. Get the software. I like the one when i can switch beetwen the programs, APR i think (want to get 2 modes- 91 and 110). Also look for trany chip, i got a tip so i gues VAST would do it.
5. get beeter sparks and coils just for safety.
6. Hit the 1/4 and unleash the fury on all the ricers!!!!!!

ORIGINAL: formulagigi

ORIGINAL: Slurm

Is there a potential problem with doing engine back upgrading with a biturbo motor? Do the stock DP's/Catback act as a bottleneck if the boost is increased via chipping? I wasnt sure if there were any backpressure related problems if you dont first change your exhaust setup.

I want the power, but i want a daily driver to hehe.


Mine is a daily driver and I haul the kids around with it. No issues. Especially with the APR chip, which is so smooth and has stock drivability.
Getting piggy pipes or DPs will definitely help though by reducing the heat build up behind the turbos.
APR chip for stage 1 goes to 1.0 bar so nothing insane...some stage 3 guys are at 23-25 lbs of boost!



Did you have the chip done before changing your exhaust?

yes.
chip
then piggies

then exhaust

Thanks Gigi. I think ill save up for an APR bipipe and then save for the Vast piggies and tuning. (they are about 3 hours from my place)

Gigi do the Piggies still allow you to pass inspection? Also is there any need to buy new o2 sensor or do the stock ones still work.

Absolutely, no problem with inspection b/c VAST adds two new O2 bungs pass the precats relocating the O2 sensors.
The stock O2s work fine, but you'll need to work on getting the slack out to reach the new bungs.
Getting those piggies one is work, especially on TIP A6's. Gotta unbolt the subframe.

I just dont know if vast's piggies are worth the $400 now. My local shop will do it for 125 + 50 for software which will allow it to pass emissions. Its a tough choice for someone on a budget like me

what's that 50 for software to pass emission??????

Evidently there is a software that eliminates the CEL for good... I have seen it on test pipes on the A4. The way I understand it (explained to me by the shop owner) The piggies w/out relocated o2 sensors throw CEL's p1131 and p1113. The software takes thoes codes and makes them dissapear for good. I'm not sure about it which is why I am still considering Piggies. I would like to save a few $ to get some suspension, but I don't know if its worth it.

Hey Gigi, is the bipipe a pretty easy install?

Not really difficult since most the components can be accessed from the top and the passenger side headlight has to be removed.
Take a lok at these very clear instructions and determine if it is something you want to do yourself. http://www.goapr.com/Audi/support/bipipe_installation.pdf

Hey, thanks for the link!

That looks pretty easy. Ill probably pick one up when I get my economic stimulis check. =P

ORIGINAL: Slurm

Hey, thanks for the link!

That looks pretty easy. Ill probably pick one up when I get my economic stimulis check. =P
I think you should get the piggies first, as they cost the same as the bipipe, and you will get more benefits out of them. The installation however seems very involved. Instead of the bipipe I ordered the Samco TBB for about $70.00 and it should last a lifetime.
I am looking for a link with the steps required.

i was thinking of getting the piggies and the ecu tuning at the same time and having Vast install the piggies while im there, but that will most likely not happen until next spring. But i figured i could get the bi pipe, new DVs and a drop in filter for now.

Dont you have to send your DP's back to Vast to get 300 bucks back (to make them 350)? I figured i could save some shipping by just driving up, and im not sure if i have the proper equipment to install them myself.

You are right on shipping yourstock piggies back to VAST, so yes you could save a bit by driving to them and having them perform the install for you.
Fow what I have read the drop in filter doesn't get you much, so you may want to focus on the low hanging fruit first: DV ($75.00 for 2 x 710n), TBB ($75.00 for a Samco), APR chip $600 for an APR), new plugs ($75 for a set of 6 NGK Platinum). These should be done kinda together so you'll run trouble-free. Then the piggies should be next... about $400 + install (several hours@ $xx.00 each).

K&N filter is bad for MAF
O2 relocate is better the a CEL reset software (you gas milage will go out the window)
any metal DV will give you the woosh sound you are looking for (blow offs are a bad idea)

I mean the Pre-oiled K&N filter will be fine. I have had mine on for about a month now with no problems at all. The reason the K&N is potentially bad it when people over oil it. I would recomend the filter for 2 reasons. 1st is the air flow... obvious, but 2nd if you have ever changed the filter you know what a PITA it can be opening the airbox and re-clipping thoes clips (I think the devil himself designed that POS clip on the back of the airbox that you can only get to if you hands are the size of a f***ing 5 year old....) anwayIt is an annoying thing. So if you have to change the filter anyway why not put one it you will never have to change.

So if you have to change the filter anyway why not put one it you will never have to change.
You never have to REPLACE it but... you still need to clean and oil it just as you would otherwise put in a new stock filter.

Yeah I realized that, but I probly wont have to do again because the car will most likley be sold before that.

Yeah i think you only need to oil it like every 50,000 miles?

Any recomendations on the TBB? I'm considering the Samco TBB. How's the APR Bipipe?

ORIGINAL: GDET09

Any recomendations on the TBB? I'm considering the Samco TBB. How's the APR Bipipe?



Someone correct me if im wrong but basically:

If your on more of a budget or would just rather save a few hundred bucks, get the Samco. If you want a rock solid part (not that the Samco isnt) and have expendable income, get the BiPipe.

Right on, but I hear that even stage 3 cars run samco and the bipipe's build quality is going down hill. I was seriously considering tv bipipe untill I read about someone who's bipipe broke. I figure the samco will hold up and even it it breaks its still not 300 bucks

Back to the matter of Chip tuning:

If i take my car in to get the APR chip (for example), I would be paying 599 bucks, plus if i wanted the flipswitch (wheres that go anyways? vag-com?) im adding another 150 bucks for 2 programs (1 stock and 1 93 octane) and im adding the fault code erase/TB alignment for another 50 dollars.

Im up to 800 dollars for a chip tune, and since im taking it to someone they would charge me like....100 for the install?

Also: since I have tiptronic, what happens to my current sport mode when I chip? Will it no longer make a diff whether I have the car in D or S (it'd be cool if throwing it in S would be what initiated the higher octane software, but i realize that needs done on startup)? AND since I have tip, could I do the apr chip AND later do the giac tip chip for faster shifting, or would that yield incompatibility with the software?

If a hummingbird is flying at 11 kmph going south and.....perhaps i've asked enough questions already....

I know im probably asking ubernoob questions, but i just want to know how this whole thing goes down and how much money I need to set aside.

No worries I recently had this done. The apr chip cam be installed at a dealer for free. It gets loaded through the obd port. Then to switch programs you hold the cruse control button for a few seconds and it switches. Its easy I'm not sue if you pay for install with the switch but to load programs should be free. I would still consider buying GIAC i love my apr, but it is smooth and I like that kick in the ass from GIAC chip

so i have a 2001 audi a6 2.7 and if i got

DV, Samco TBB, APR ECU, and a K&N filter then later piggie dp's
i should be okay right?

why is not worth getting cold air intake on this car?

any idea what the 0-60 or 1/4 mile would be after all this is done?

You will be great! Alot of people on here are running that exact combo on the 2.7t. I have all but piggies and samco (mine is in great condition stock) and I love it.

ORIGINAL: jyojiman

so i have a 2001 audi a6 2.7 and if i got

DV, Samco TBB, APR ECU, and a K&N filter then later piggie dp's
i should be okay right?

why is not worth getting cold air intake on this car?

any idea what the 0-60 or 1/4 mile would be after all this is done?



YOu will be fine and you should be at 340+ crank hp ~400lbs TQ Iam guessing (with piggies). I would definitely do the piggies, not only do they had power and torque, butthey also help reduceheat build up ebhind the turbos, therefore increasing reliability.
Add an exhaust and you are what is caled stage2+.

0-60 varies from car to car I noticed from various posts and also 6pd seem to be faster by 1/2 sec it seems.
If you are a tip stage 2+, I would guess you'd be at 5-5.5 sec to 60mph, 13.5-14.5 sec dpedning on your 60ft and how well you can drive your car. Launching the tip is tricky.
The VAST tip chip would help shave a few tenths I think.

ORIGINAL: Slurm

Back to the matter of Chip tuning:

If i take my car in to get the APR chip (for example), I would be paying 599 bucks, plus if i wanted the flipswitch (wheres that go anyways? vag-com?) im adding another 150 bucks for 2 programs (1 stock and 1 93 octane) and im adding the fault code erase/TB alignment for another 50 dollars.

Im up to 800 dollars for a chip tune, and since im taking it to someone they would charge me like....100 for the install?

Also: since I have tiptronic, what happens to my current sport mode when I chip? Will it no longer make a diff whether I have the car in D or S (it'd be cool if throwing it in S would be what initiated the higher octane software, but i realize that needs done on startup)? AND since I have tip, could I do the apr chip AND later do the giac tip chip for faster shifting, or would that yield incompatibility with the software?

If a hummingbird is flying at 11 kmph going south and.....perhaps i've asked enough questions already....

I know im probably asking ubernoob questions, but i just want to know how this whole thing goes down and how much money I need to set aside.


{Quote from trapped: No worries I recently had this done. The apr chip cam be installed at a dealer for free. It gets loaded through the obd port. Then to switch programs you hold the cruse control button for a few seconds and it switches. Its easy I'm not sue if you pay for install with the switch but to load programs should be free. I would still consider buying GIAC i love my apr, but it is smooth and I like that kick in the ass from GIAC chip}

To the above I would say that not all models/years can be loaded with the software via the OBD port, sometimes the chip has to be physically installed/soldered. Also some shops do charge a small install fee for the chip for their tech time.

As for your tiptronic question, the ECU chip has NOTHING to do with your Sport mode. They'll remain as his.
if you do the VAg COM TIP recode (32) though, your D mode becomes essentially like your S mode.

ORIGINAL: trapped

Right on, but I hear that even stage 3 cars run samco and the bipipe's build quality is going down hill. I was seriously considering tv bipipe untill I read about someone who's bipipe broke. I figure the samco will hold up and even it it breaks its still not 300 bucks


Have has the bipipe for 2+ years and 20K+ miels, no issues to speak of. Quality is fine. And I am sure there is a warranty.
I like my bipipe.

ORIGINAL: white fish

K&N filter is bad for MAF
O2 relocate is better the a CEL reset software (you gas milage will go out the window)
any metal DV will give you the woosh sound you are looking for (blow offs are a bad idea)


Have had a K&N filter on my A6 since NOv 05 and no issues at all. My friend has one on his A6 too, no issues. he had one on his B5 S4, no issues. Many more have them...
The only problem is when someone removes them to clean them and uses too much oil and don't remove the excess before re-install. User error, not a K&N filter issue.

Also I have metal Dvs and have no woosh sound.. got robbed, uh :) I think a CAI would increase that sound. I really don't hear much of anything form the DVs. I ahve had Hyperboost metal DVs and APR R1's. No sound from either set.

Gigi don't think your driving fast enough.... thats wierd though I guess only the Forge's make that noise. I really am glad I don't have it. I borrowed my friends 1.8t for a day (avant, needed to move stuff) and he had a BOV and it got really anoying.

ORIGINAL: Slurm
Dont you have to send your DP's back to Vast to get 300 bucks back (to make them 350)? I figured i could save some shipping by just driving up, and im not sure if i have the proper equipment to install them myself.


yes and no. there are two ways you can do this if you are not local to them:
1- Send them your own cores on Monday (think I paid $25), Mike at VAST gets them Wednesday morning, will turn them into piggies (gutting them, relocasting O2 bungs pass the precats, and fixing what he thinks needs to be touched up i.e. flanges) same day and return them to you, so Friday you get them back (priced is SHIPPED) and get your shop to install them unless you can DIY it.

2- They send you done pigggies and you pay the prioce plus CORE fee of 300, then you return your cores once you shop (or you) has installed the "used new" piggies.

I did option 1 and paid $335 or 345 then all in and I felt better using my own cored rather than someone else's. My choice plus I did not liek having t front the extra $300, which I'd rather spend on install right away.

If you are local or can drive there, then no issues.

ORIGINAL: formulagigi

ORIGINAL: Slurm

Back to the matter of Chip tuning:

If i take my car in to get the APR chip (for example), I would be paying 599 bucks, plus if i wanted the flipswitch (wheres that go anyways? vag-com?) im adding another 150 bucks for 2 programs (1 stock and 1 93 octane) and im adding the fault code erase/TB alignment for another 50 dollars.

Im up to 800 dollars for a chip tune, and since im taking it to someone they would charge me like....100 for the install?

Also: since I have tiptronic, what happens to my current sport mode when I chip? Will it no longer make a diff whether I have the car in D or S (it'd be cool if throwing it in S would be what initiated the higher octane software, but i realize that needs done on startup)? AND since I have tip, could I do the apr chip AND later do the giac tip chip for faster shifting, or would that yield incompatibility with the software?

If a hummingbird is flying at 11 kmph going south and.....perhaps i've asked enough questions already....

I know im probably asking ubernoob questions, but i just want to know how this whole thing goes down and how much money I need to set aside.


{Quote from trapped: No worries I recently had this done. The apr chip cam be installed at a dealer for free. It gets loaded through the obd port. Then to switch programs you hold the cruse control button for a few seconds and it switches. Its easy I'm not sue if you pay for install with the switch but to load programs should be free. I would still consider buying GIAC i love my apr, but it is smooth and I like that kick in the ass from GIAC chip}

To the above I would say that not all models/years can be loaded with the software via the OBD port, sometimes the chip has to be physically installed/soldered. Also some shops do charge a small install fee for the chip for their tech time.

As for your tiptronic question, the ECU chip has NOTHING to do with your Sport mode. They'll remain as his.
if you do the VAg COM TIP recode (32) though, your D mode becomes essentially like your S mode.




So does this mean the Sport mode becomes pointless?

yes or redundant, which is fine by me. Who cares, really... D is kinda crappy anyway and doesn't save $ in gas. I did a week comparo driving in S only...

but again this has nothing to do with the ECU chip that adds power. So you can go with that with no worries.