I was foolish because I bought the car without getting it to a mechanic for an inspection first...

I have been lurking here for about 3 weeks. I bought a 2004Audi A6 S Line 2.7t with 55K miles on it last week. I thought this would be a perfect car for me because I now have a family but still like driving cars that can perform (I had a 99 Corvette, 87 Corvette, 68 Mustang as my previous cars). The car seemed to run fine except a vibration in the front when braking down from freeway speeds

After my purchase I came to my senses and took the car into a mechanic for an inspection. Because I have monitoring these forums I know that an Audi with 55K miles might need timing belt. Plus the vibrations led me to believe there was an issue withfront brakes or suspension... so I was prepared to spend about 2K getting my new ride tip top...

The Bad news here
The shop (nameless for the time being) quoted me over the phone on Friday $4,750...Here is the break down (I will get a full list with prices Monday)

Camshaft Gaskets Front and Rear are leaking oil
Timing belt Water pump change recommended (along with other items)
Wheel bearing job?

This amount is much more costly than expected so I need to consider all my options...I need some help. Opinions are welcome...Here are some questions/scenarios
1. Get a second opinion. The price seems way high here. Perhaps I am getting ripped off... Can someone recommend a shop in the California East Bay Area (I am in San Ramon)?
2. What are California Lemon laws? I bought the Car AS ISfrom a small dealer that re sells luxory cars from auction.
3. I like the car and would keep it if I had piece of mind but I think 5K is too much to pay for it
4. Should I consider getting some sort of extended warranty to help with these costs?
5. Should I consider getting rid of this car before it becomes a money pit? The car is driveable now I could trade in for another vehicle...

Any ideas or Suggestions

Dump the car, it was obviously abused in its prior life and it is likely to be a money pit. You can have an Audio dealer run the VIN and tell you the cars maintenance history and if all the TSBs have been performed. In the futurestay away from cars that were ever sold at auction, they tend to have a checkered history. Also always have a used car checked out by an independent mechanic before buying it.

Second opinion might help but you should dump the car. Who knows what else is wrong with it? Good luck

Did it have any service records when you bought it?

I would get a second opinion, ecspecially if your have no prior knowledge of the shop you've taken it to.
Hopefully someone can recomend a shop in your area.
Leaking cam seals? is the oil pouring out? ar just a little film of oil?
Shimmy upon braking sounds like warped rotors.
I dont believe bad wheel bearings " CV joints " will give you this sympton.
It sound to me like they are tryng to rip you off.
I do not understand why people would so offhandidly tell you to dump the car, that is just plain ridiculous!
How is this car "obviously abused" BENG

Sometimes a dealer lets you return the car within first week of purchase (doubtful in this case)...I think thats what you mean by dump it. I would never buy a car that doesnt have any kind of warranty...just in case you run into this kind of issue...I think if he ends up spending additional $5k week after he bought the car then I'll be really pissed and the cost of purchase just went up for him.

Assuming...down the road if he wants to sell the car after 2-3 years, he is going to lose money on it.

Shimmy in the brakes is no big deal. If you're worried (warped rotors) then simply replace them. Parts are around $300. Wheel bearings will be obvious when they go out. Lots of noise from the offending bearing. They can be expensive but it is very unlikely that all four went at once.

The timing belt is necessary around 75k. While they (or you) are in there replace the water pump, thermostat, crank seal, serp belt, timing belt idlers. This kit has everything including those camshaft seals.

http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GH21113%2DA

For a replacement belt and brakes I would certainly not dump the car. You should definetely get another mechanic to take a look. I rational mechanic would NOT recomment all wheel bearings like that. If they do that, who knows what else they might try to get by you.


And you asked about the suspension as well. You can tell when you'll need to replace those parts once you hear groaning when you turn.

Yes, I am thinking the 2nd opinion route is best...Can anyone reccomend an AudiService Shop in San Ramon or East bay area?

TO clarify things a bit here are some additional details
Leaking CAM Seals...The mechanic said there was quite a bit of oil but I have not seen any dripping outside or smelled burning oil in the week I had been driving it. I am not really sure where I would look to tell if it is just a thin film....But the mechanic said that all cars this type have this problem to a varying degreee. I think he is charging 2K to fix this issue front and rear...(I have not seen the actual write up yet)
I think you are right about the CV Joints in fact I think he mentioned this...Then he said that it could also be the wheel bearing on the driver front side...He is charging $500 for the brake job plus additional 400 if there is a wheel bearing problem
The mechanic said that they do many things along with the timing belt (water pump, etc etc) I think he is charging $1500 for this...

I am not sure I am comfortable doing all this work (myself...I would consider it if I had some experienced help). I was thinking I would get to know this car by doing small things like Throttle Body Boot etc etc

The mechanic said that apart from these issues the car is in very good shape and he feels that these repairs would make the car reliable to over 100K miles.

My basic decision boils down to losing the Sales tax money (around $1600)+ loss on sale (not sure about this one but I do owe less that KBB Good Condition) now and paying the Sales tax money on another vehicle...Or fixing this vehicle for $4,000 to $4,500...Obivously there are no guaranties either way...But I would be much happier if I could spend about 60% and get the car fixed

And I did not get service records...How does one go about obtaining Service Records from Audi? Is there a charge?

Opinions Please

As far as service records:

If it was serviced at an Audi dealer they should have stamped the maintenance log in your glove compartment. If it wasnt serviced by Audi then its a matter of the previous owner keeping the paperwork for all services and giving them to the dealer when they traded it in.

If you can do your own work you can save a ton of money.
I do my own work, it's the only way I can afford to drive these cars.
Gives me pleasure, working on a Quality built machine.
Beng

Yeah I suppose I will have to take the plunge sometime...I was hoping for something a bit less complicated than timing belt...In my former life I took a 1968 Mustang down to the block and back together...I'm guessing these are a bit more complex...lol

I might have answered my own question about Bay Area Audi Shops...Here's my list based on Research...
East County European Autoworks (In Brentwood) http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191710
Advanced Audi in SF
Streetwerke in Palo Alto (expensive)
BR Racing in Los Gatos
034 Motorsport in Fremont
Griffin Motorwerke in Berkeley
People seem to really like Freddie at East County so I will be giving him a call on Monday morning...

If you have non service rocrods, go to your local Audi dealer with the VIN #, and they will be able to pull the records of all the work done at Audi dealerships. But if the previous owner(s) did not go to AUDI dealers and did not leave any records, then no luck. Did you buy the car from a dealer? if so, they might take it back? Go talk to them. I know of people who were able to return the car. Some dealers don't want bad publicity, trials....nand some even have... decency :)
I would 1) get a second opinion, then 2) if cost is still high, then try and return it. OTHERWISE do the math, what's the most $$$.. selling it and losing $ or paying the repairs.

Oh and never everbuy again, especially an Audi :), a car without paying an specialized indy for a PPI. wihtout history or/and warranty.
Good luck and sorry about the problems.

Very good advice gigi

That looks like the game plan for right now...I did get the Car from a dealer...But a small dealer that sells luxory cars through internet ads...

I did consider going back if the 2nd opinion is too high....

Maybe they would give me a break or work something out even though they have no obligation to. The only thing I could do is threaten to Publically respond to their CL adsand other online ads with details of this sale...Could cause them some problems for business...

After I get the 2nd estimate I will go to them with the details and see what they have to say about it....

But I still hold myself more responsible because I did not get all the facts before I acted...

vibration when braking is usually warped rotors, timing belt doesn't have to be done till 70K on the earliest notice.
2.7T cars have notoriously leaking valve covers, it's no big deal ($20 gasket plus couple hours of your time).

Here's what to do about maintenance records:
1)Pull car fax on the car
2)Call dealers around the locaiton of where the car has been previously registered and ask them for maitenance records.


I bought my A6 with 110K off an auction and got the full maintenance history from 20K to 100K from two different audi dealers.

OK Here’s my $0.02 worth of trivial comments..

Your probably OK because the #1 mechanic said the vehicle was in good shape.

At 55K I would not be surprised that the front brakes were close to needing replacing. $500 is a bit high for pads and rotors but the guy is probably giving you a high number to protect himself. (It is easier to say something cost less than more.) I would suspect $400 would cover it

$400 for a front wheel bearings is a bit high. More like $200 for one. But at 55K it is highly unlikely.

$1500 for a TB etc. is about right.

That leaves $2350 for the oil leaks ---- (do the math!) He’s half way there when doing the TB so I can’t understand this one.


I would not bail out,. But I would do the following –

Certainly check on the repair history –

Get the second opinion or even a third.

Have the front brakes done and wait another 70K for the TB. If the oil leaks are a problem I would have them fixed then. A wheel bearing usually makes a lot of noise when it goes bad-- wait and see if the brakes fix the problem.

Yes, I put away 2K for these initial repairs...But when I was quoted at $4,500 I was thrown a bit.

I am taking the car to Freddie at East Country European Autoworks tonight. If I could get down to 2K and theissues resolvedI will be a happy man...

Should I consider an Extended Warranty for these repairs? It looks like some Warranties cover timing belt etc etc....I think the plans run about 2K and I would be covered for the future...If so, Can anyone reccommend a good Ext Warranty Company?

Pretty much same thing as the others are saying, but here are my thoughts.

- Shimmy sounds like warped rotors, as everyone is saying. You can actually do those yourself if you feel like it; but in reality, other than bugging you a little, it really does not affect the performance/safety of the car. I would wait until the next brake job to replace the rotors and all. As for the bearings, unless you are hearing constant humming while driving, I say it is fine.
- Timing belt and water pump from a mechanic will run you anywhere from $1500 to $2000 if you get it from a repair shop. As for the oil leak, it is typical with these cars. I would not worry about small residue, unless you are seeing drips. Just wait until 75K or so to do the timing belt and deal with it all then and keep your eyes on the oil level. Sometimes these cars burn through 1 qt per 1000 miles, and it is considered normal.

I wouldn't consider your car a lemon. These are just typical issues with A6s. Just keep your eyes open for any drastic changes and change oil with good quality synthetic often. It's will keep your turbos alive. Audis are great cars, but are not cheap to maintain. Consider this the hazing period, and welcome to the brotherhood.

Udpate...

Freddie at East County quoted me at $2,600 for the repairs...
HE was lower than the first estimate by about 2 grand...He also notified me of Some other potential issues with the car...

I did some research and found I could get into an extended warranty for about 2K...

I went back to the dealership with the estimates in hand ($4,500 and 2,600)...And told them about the additional issues. They offered to have their mechanic look inot the issues and give me a quote (they thought it might be around $1,500) at the dealers prefered rate...

I was not satified with this as I was not sure if the mechanic would be looking out for me or the dealers interests. And I was weary of getting stuck in a car that I am upside down by 5K (the warranty + fixes) plus the additional issues identified by Freddie at East county...Intermitent Codes, stripped wheel lug, blown spare tire, incorrect bake pads...Plus mods etc etc

Based on the research and costs asscosiated I had already decided I was going to opt out of this vehicle.I was one week outof signing so no cooling offperiod was available.

I pushed the dealer to cancel the deal very hard...Stateing that both mechanicsopinion that the dealershipnot honest about the condition of the car.I was able to get out of the deal(even though I paid some small fee's). Considering that I would likely lose money on trade in or sale I jumped at he opportunity...I was pleased that they stepped up and took responsibility for the car...And I promised them I would not bad mouththeirbusiness so they will remain nameless


I realize that the 2.7T was not the engine for me...I was somewhat interesed in the mods but more interested in reliability...The 4.2 has enough power stock to keep me happy (for now) and having the CPO 100K warranty is big espcially with the wife...

I like the 2005 interior much more (amaretto)and the car has rear sun shades (bonus for my 8 month old) and Advanced Key (not sure yet about this one)...Overall the car feels more luxorious which pleases me a bit more than the turbos (it is close!)

I am paying more (obviously) but I feelits worth itit seems thiscar will be much more reliable. I am crossing my fingers...

Thank You all for your help...

You will enjoy the 4.2 and the C6 body. Mine has been a lot of fun.

i'm pretty sure that an 05 4.2 is a good bit faster than the 2.7t

and yeah new interior, exterior is really nice.

I spent 114,000 miles in a 2002 2.7t. Now have a 05 4.2. The new C6 is a much better vehicle. I know the 4.2 is faster and delivers better fuel economy when driven normal. All Audis are prone to shake when out of balance on wheels and tires. Also pulsating brakes tend to show up as the vibration you had in the 2.7. The new C6 has been much less prone to this stuff. It has vented discs front and rear. The C5 had solid discs on the rear. I had to turn rotors on old car every 25,000 and replace rotors every 50,000 miles. My new 05 has 50,000 on already and only needs pads, no disc warpage at all in 50,000 miles. Only issues I have had with the C6 has been updates to the MMI and rear trunk latch. The 2.7 at 50,000 miles had a new tranny, cam seals, ecu module, 1 brake disc truing, 1 complete brake job including disc replacement, light switch, hazard switch, 2 sets of tires- 1 set every 25,000 miles till I traded it. The C6 is much easier on tires too. 1 set will go 40,000 miles. The C6 is a way better car than my old C5. I was not even going to get another Audi, but the 4.2 absolutely won me over. Only thing that concerns me now is I am now hearing start up clatter which the dealer swears is normal with the new chain driven cams. It has a hydraulic cam chain tightener that needs pressure from the oil pump. You will love the C5 and the 4.2

ORIGINAL: KnappAttack

I spent 114,000 miles in a 2002 2.7t. Now have a 05 4.2. The new C6 is a much better vehicle. I know the 4.2 is faster and delivers better fuel economy when driven normal.


I agree the stock C6 4.2 is considerablyfaster than the stock C5 2.7t. The C6 was a bigstep forward for Audi.

Isn't your car from India?

Congrats, you'll be happy!

Thanks for all the support guys...Without this resource I would not have been informed enough to makemy decision. I am very happy with my purchase.

I am impressed with the Cars power and fuel efficiency. It's hard to keepthe speedunder 80 on the freeway (as 80 feels like 35).

The only drawback that I notice about the stock 4.2 vs the stock2.7t is that the 4.2 is a bit nose heavy...You can feel this through the turns...The 2.7t seemed a bit more nimble...But the PRO's definately outweigh the CON's...

An even better site for the A6-C6 Audi is www.audiworld.com

More traffic over there for the new chassis.