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96 audi engine build suggestions
ok so i have a 96 2.8 12v that has a knock. the guy who had it before me ran it out of oil so I am guessing that he burnt up the main bearing and a total rebuild is required. So my question if i want 250-300 fwhp am I better off getting a 2.8 30v, vr6, or 1.8T? How hard is the change over for this car, and if it is going to be a real big hassle am i better off doing performance work to the engine i have. If thats the case who makes anything for this engine? How hard is it to turbo or sc this car? Thoughts suggestions coments! Any help is greatly appreciated
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
1.8t wont be hard to get 250-300fwhp. a 2.8 i would stay away from moding. cant put a sc on a 12v only the 30v. you could turbo it but its money and a custom one off job.
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
yeh basically, i have a 96 audi a4 2.8 and im turboing mine in about 6 months or so, theres gonna be alot of money into customizing a turbo and all you can get out of it max is about 330HP, and yes you cant supercharge it unless you spend more money custom making a new manifold...so unless you wanna be different then everyone else like me and dont mind spending extra money then stick with it and PM me and ill give you more details, but if you wanna go cheaper and get a 1.8T then go for it...im with you both ways
Good luck!! |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
1sika4 more details on your turbo please. is this going to be a rear mount turbo like sts or one in the engine bay?
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
actually, me and my friend are making a diagram on how the turbo can be mounted in the front. As of right now its a rear mount from STS turbo's yes. My friend already has it on his car, and it works beautifuly lag is normal, boost is normal its amazing actually. But pretty soon maybe before i get mine will have a full custom work diagram done for front mounted turbo. We already know how and where it can be placed but it would be a really really tight fit. The tubing would be crazy aswell since theres very little room for intercooler and things like that but thats when side mounted intercoolers or top mounted intercoolers can come into play... theres a lot of options and im really dedicated to this project only because i like doing things like this:D
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
vr6 hands down if you want big power, 1.8T if you only want 300whp
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
well your car is a v6 so wil you have 2 turbos in the engine or will you have yoru exhaust flow into one pipe and then into a turob?
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
1 pipe then turbo...and yeh chaos92287 is right, and 1.8ts can only have about 300HP to? wow that sucks i would think they could go alittle more but whatever lol power is power :) But 1 pipe then turbo, it will fit where my stock muffler was, for AWD v6's it fits in the rear where the tips are, which sucks for AWDs :)
heres a video of my friends rear mounted turbo AWD audi v6 its short but he has different sections for this video i guess his camera phone couldnt hold much or something idk you can see the turbo on at the rear if you look closey http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUPytW4uq1k Heres the second video, you can hear the blow-off valve in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50lTR0m0Zmg |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
1.8t can have more than 300whp. i was at 337whp at 21 psi but ran 30 daily and even hit 40 a few times. I DONT RECOMEND DOING THAT BTW
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
lol nice...i have a friend with a 1.8 with 25PSI 322HP AWD Audi but i know they can have more then 300HP i just meant not to much more then 300HP
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
Just do the VR6. No sense in wasting time. LOL. The motor is dirt cheap, it's the other work that takes time if you have it. It's a long list, but if you're serious about potential for future power, Chaos is right with the vr6 being where it's at.
Since you're swapping from a 12v motor, no matter what you go with you'll need a complete harness and new motor mounts, so when in Rome... PS- less than 2 weeks ago I had my 96 a4 with motor out and the car prepped for a swap. I hope you got the car for a song and a dance, because it's a long road, and an expensive one to travel, no matter what motor you are swapping to. Ryan |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
But wait, how big are the vr6 motors? are they about the same size at the normal v6's? because if they are how will a turbo fit? or can they only be supercharged from that point on? because if they can make a vr6 turbo fit in a 96 v6 then i need the turbo layout for that :P
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
So what would be needed to be done to swap in a thirty valve. Is the timing and heads the only thing different or is there ECU and fuel rail issues? Also does anyone know the difference in spec from the US version of the VR6 and a european one?
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: 1SIKA4 But wait, how big are the vr6 motors? are they about the same size at the normal v6's? because if they are how will a turbo fit? or can they only be supercharged from that point on? because if they can make a vr6 turbo fit in a 96 v6 then i need the turbo layout for that :P the VR6's are smaller than a normal V6 and they mount it longitudinally in the bay and but the turbo on the side, If you will direct your sights on 034motorsports you can actually by the parts you need to adapt the VR6 to the Audi chassis. as for the original poster, the 30v uses a different Ecu than the 12v. No I don't know the difference but I do know that if I had the money I would have a BT 12v VR6 sitting under my hood right now. |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: CAB509 ORIGINAL: 1SIKA4 But wait, how big are the vr6 motors? are they about the same size at the normal v6's? because if they are how will a turbo fit? or can they only be supercharged from that point on? because if they can make a vr6 turbo fit in a 96 v6 then i need the turbo layout for that :P the VR6's are smaller than a normal V6 and they mount it longitudinally in the bay and but the turbo on the side, If you will direct your sights on 034motorsports you can actually by the parts you need to adapt the VR6 to the Audi chassis. as for the original poster, the 30v uses a different Ecu than the 12v. No I don't know the difference but I do know that if I had the money I would have a BT 12v VR6 sitting under my hood right now. 1sika4, I'd suggest some research on the vr6 swap. There's alot to cover on that topic. :D |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: 1SIKA4 1 pipe then turbo...and yeh chaos92287 is right, and 1.8ts can only have about 300HP to? wow that sucks i would think they could go alittle more but whatever lol power is power :) ORIGINAL: 1SIKA4 But wait, how big are the vr6 motors? are they about the same size at the normal v6's? because if they are how will a turbo fit? or can they only be supercharged from that point on? because if they can make a vr6 turbo fit in a 96 v6 then i need the turbo layout for that :P http://www.034motorsport.com/gallery...17VR6TACAR.jpg |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
if you are serious about doing a vr6 swap, there is no one better to talk to than Issam from 034. you can contact him on vortex or motorgeek, pretty sure he goes by Wizard-of-OD in both places. he's a great guy, very helpful, and will lay out everything you gotta do.
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
You guys have answered alot of my questions. Okay so lets say that i want to do the Vr6 engine swap and I am going to pull it from a european version jetta and it had a automatic. It is a 97 by the way. So is there a hp difference from this engine to a regular american vr6 i can plainly see that the intake cover has a different design but thats all I can tell and more importantly can this bolt to the manual trans that is in my Audi? What do I have to do to make that work
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
034 carries all the parts you need for the swap and yes it'll bolt up to your tranny. most people get the vr6 from a wrecked passat since its usually the cheapest. trust me when i say you'll get no better help than from Issam. no one on this forum has ever done a vr6 swap, Issam has a couple under his belt.
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
this is the best info i have on the subject
ORIGINAL: chaos92287 Courtesy of Issam (from 034) 1) VR6 Engine = $500US (for the sake of argument) (6) Forged JE Pistons @ 140 a piece = 840 (1) Cylinder Head gasket set = 127.20 (1) Set of AntiFriction Mains & Rod bearings = 200 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=952 (1) Head Stud set = 248 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=799 (1) Main stud set = 155 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=777 (1) Rod bolt set = 120 (1) 034 Motorsport VR6 flywheel = 450 (1) 034 Motorsport VR6 starter motor = 450 (1) VR5 adapter plate = 235 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=665 (1) 034 MS fuel rail = 95 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...oducts_id=1221 (1) Valve spring set + retainers = 285 http://www.034motorsport.com/product...roducts_id=618 (1) VR6 turbo manifold = 150US (1) VR6 intake manifold = 800US (1) 034EFI Stage IIc = 1750 (1) Set of techtonics cams 288* = 495 (1) Garrett GT3582R = 1395 Total so far = 8295.20 yeah the 12v vr6 engine shouldn't run you more than 250, so that would bring the price down to 8 g's but you also gotta add a FMIC, bov, wg, piping, and minor custom work to subframe, etc...and we haven't even started talking about suspension and bbk. so if you have a car already pretty much built to BT specs, you would be spending around 8 g's, a completely stock a4 were looking around 12-14 g's. |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
I don't mean to be a wrench in the wheel but whats the difference between the v6 and the vr6? Both are audi engines? I'm assuming your talking about the 12valve v6 and the 30v vr6?
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
vr6 motor is a very narrow 12v v6 - as chaos said it's nearly an inline setup. because of this, and the fact it will mount longitudinally inside an a4, you get tons of room on the sides for a large large turbo. the nice thing with the vr6 motor as well is they were very common. find a wrecked passat, and chances are you'll find a vr6. because of this, you can get one for $250 complete, and build a monster out of it.
they are becoming more common, but dynos on these things are 600+hp. if you buy a shell car or high mileage car for say 2gs, and the spend 9gs on the swap, you have a MONSTER for around $11k. an absolute monster. -Ryan |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
^learned alot from that last thread i see:D
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: duburban I don't mean to be a wrench in the wheel but whats the difference between the v6 and the vr6? Both are audi engines? I'm assuming your talking about the 12valve v6 and the 30v vr6? the vr6 and b5 v6 are both 2.8l but thats about the only similarity. the v6 comes in 12v and 30v, and the vr6 comes in 12v and 24v. the 12v vr6 has one camshaft, while the 24v has 2. if you want over 1000hp, a 24v vr6 and gt40 could get the job done |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
Thanks for catching me up. You'll be changing compressions ratios for the turbo setup? ?
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
damn thats alot of drama, im glad im not that serious about power im cool with my 300HP :) but ehh yeh ok well i guess since it sits differenlty then ill just stay away from that point of thought...
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: rsrbljan vr6 motor is a very narrow 12v v6 - as chaos said it's nearly an inline setup. because of this, and the fact it will mount longitudinally inside an a4, you get tons of room on the sides for a large large turbo. the nice thing with the vr6 motor as well is they were very common. find a wrecked passat, and chances are you'll find a vr6. because of this, you can get one for $250 complete, and build a monster out of it. they are becoming more common, but dynos on these things are 600+hp. if you buy a shell car or high mileage car for say 2gs, and the spend 9gs on the swap, you have a MONSTER for around $11k. an absolute monster. -Ryan I think I might need to start looking for a used VR6 for fun then because if I can find a decent one for that price, I might be tempted to buy it and slowly build it up while in school and then finish it up as a grad present to myself maybe. hmmmmm, ideas, ideas, now you got me thinking |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
if i had a garage, there would already be an a4 shell in there
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RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
tell me about it. I'm going to start shopping here in a few weeks. the way i see it is once my 12v finally eats it, it'd have about 80% of the part together for the swap. if the 12v doesn't eat it and i have everything together then i swap it. i just HAVE to do something since I've had my motor out once. i feel like I teased by putting a 12v back INTO an a4.
and chaos, yeah i did quite a bit of reading on the vr6. more from a builder standpoint. i'm about a qweek out from calling 034 and seeing their opinion on my build thoughts. - Ryan |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
do it, then let me drive it, then let me use your garage and your knowledge to maybe put one together for me(probably wishful thinking, since this is my DD).
Well at least do it for your self and let me drive it:D but seriously, I can't wait till next year when my car is up with me in C-bus, then we'll get some meets going. |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
ORIGINAL: rsrbljan tell me about it. I'm going to start shopping here in a few weeks. the way i see it is once my 12v finally eats it, it'd have about 80% of the part together for the swap. if the 12v doesn't eat it and i have everything together then i swap it. i just HAVE to do something since I've had my motor out once. i feel like I teased by putting a 12v back INTO an a4. and chaos, yeah i did quite a bit of reading on the vr6. more from a builder standpoint. i'm about a qweek out from calling 034 and seeing their opinion on my build thoughts. - Ryan |
RE: 96 audi engine build suggestions
the 12v with a gt3582r based soley on the 034 support for that setup. PLUS since it's gone through a round of tuning previously at 034, I was gonna see what they could do for me on getting a starter tune preloaded. It's such a unique setup, I don't trust any dyno shops locally to make the tune. I have done minor fuel trim adjustments in some piggyback systems, but I've never tuned a complete standalone, and I don't want what I don't know to hinder the project.
-Ryan |
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