New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
#1
03-21-2005, 11:54 PM
New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
Im buying a 2000 2.7T Quattro, getting a great price on it but it's got 106k on the engine and turbos. Car drives great, no noticable problems spooling, and the whole thing seems pretty tight. On the other hand, i know the the bottom line is 106k is a lot of miles. Two questions: anyone had any experience with an A6 with that much travel? and two: think the engine could handle the APR chip? Anyone with insight, thanks in advance.
#2
03-22-2005, 04:17 PM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
The turbos are more suspect than the engine. I would do my best to find out the service history of the car to determine if it was taken care of or neglected.
I have 50K miles on my 2.7T and I am concerned about chipping / Flashing it. 106K miles?? I would not push my luck. The turbos will take a dump for sure. You will be essentially doubling the boost with a chip/flash that is a lot of stress on an old turbo.
Suggestion? Contact these guys and see if they can freshen up / upgrade you're turbos. I might go this route too. I have used them in the past with an RX-7 turbo and their upgrade took my close to stock RX-7 from 180 HP to 260 HP and the turbo ahas been alive on 3 different cars now. I have sold it to a friend who later upgraded and sold it to another friend.
http://www.majesticturbo.com/
These guys are really cool and might be able to suggest an upgrade or at the least a rebuild. Plan on about $500 per turbo for a rebuild. Prices vary depending on condition of the turbo.
I have 50K miles on my 2.7T and I am concerned about chipping / Flashing it. 106K miles?? I would not push my luck. The turbos will take a dump for sure. You will be essentially doubling the boost with a chip/flash that is a lot of stress on an old turbo.
Suggestion? Contact these guys and see if they can freshen up / upgrade you're turbos. I might go this route too. I have used them in the past with an RX-7 turbo and their upgrade took my close to stock RX-7 from 180 HP to 260 HP and the turbo ahas been alive on 3 different cars now. I have sold it to a friend who later upgraded and sold it to another friend.
http://www.majesticturbo.com/
These guys are really cool and might be able to suggest an upgrade or at the least a rebuild. Plan on about $500 per turbo for a rebuild. Prices vary depending on condition of the turbo.
#3
03-22-2005, 11:43 PM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
hey, thanks. yeah my biggest question with this car was definately the turbos. at the price this guy's giving it to me, i'm pretty much expecting to replace/upgrade the turbos within the next 10k miles. the rest of the car is in immaculate shape, just replaced the timing belt and all. the cost of turbo replacement was definately something i've factored into my price range. I was thinking about the stage3 APR turbos, and ill definately check out that majestic site. what's the history of the engines themselves?? can an engine that old handle the boost? thats the only thing i dont really have a good idea about with this car. but i do understand that the turbos are most likely on their last legs. anyone had experience with elevated boost in a 100k old engine??
#4
03-23-2005, 04:45 AM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
Check it's history and maintenance records, that's the first thing you need to do. Don't even think about APR before you know the history or replace the turbos. That car has an average of 25k miles per year, it was driven a lot. There is also some "small stuff" you need to look out for (leaks, control arms, hoses)
I suggest that you pick up the KO4's (OCT is a big no no) and replace the stock turbos. ECS tuning has them for $2200 and then look around for an indy shop to install them.
IMO, people choose wrong about tuning their cars. Instead of "preparing" the engine first, ( better turbos, DV's, intake, brakes, suspension, etc.) they go cheapest route, they just install a mod. chip. Most of them end up upgrading their turbos because after the mod chip, thy blow the turbos (wonder why???)
If you want a short (expensive) stint then just chip it, if you want to keep your car, upgrade first.
Supposedly, the APR mods are" more conservative" then others. That's one of the rumors people listen to and ignore what the increased boost does to their turbos. I strongly advise you not to add more workload to those old, already overwhelmed turbos.
Do you think that the previous owner(s) took proper care of the turbos? ( warm up/cool down the car before/after driving, taking it easy until the oil is warm enough, etc.)
I suggest that you pick up the KO4's (OCT is a big no no) and replace the stock turbos. ECS tuning has them for $2200 and then look around for an indy shop to install them.
IMO, people choose wrong about tuning their cars. Instead of "preparing" the engine first, ( better turbos, DV's, intake, brakes, suspension, etc.) they go cheapest route, they just install a mod. chip. Most of them end up upgrading their turbos because after the mod chip, thy blow the turbos (wonder why???)
If you want a short (expensive) stint then just chip it, if you want to keep your car, upgrade first.
Supposedly, the APR mods are" more conservative" then others. That's one of the rumors people listen to and ignore what the increased boost does to their turbos. I strongly advise you not to add more workload to those old, already overwhelmed turbos.
Do you think that the previous owner(s) took proper care of the turbos? ( warm up/cool down the car before/after driving, taking it easy until the oil is warm enough, etc.)
#5
03-23-2005, 11:57 AM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
I think the previoius owner took great care of it. It was serviced regularly, he just replaced a good deal of stuff in the engine, ill get more details. The only other guy to drive it was a 54 yr old lawyer, who drove an hour and a half on the highway each day to and from work. So the miles are easy, and im pretty confidant he took care of the vehicle.
If i take this to an indy shop what kind of specific things should i have him work up about the engine, to test its durability and all that. Like i said, i budgeted for replacing the turbos within the next couple of months. thanks for the heads up to do that before the chip, makes sense. ill check out that site you mentioned. someone told me they have to drop out the engine to replace the turbos = exxxxpensive labor. is that the case?
If i take this to an indy shop what kind of specific things should i have him work up about the engine, to test its durability and all that. Like i said, i budgeted for replacing the turbos within the next couple of months. thanks for the heads up to do that before the chip, makes sense. ill check out that site you mentioned. someone told me they have to drop out the engine to replace the turbos = exxxxpensive labor. is that the case?
#6
03-24-2005, 05:13 AM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
Unfortunately, it is. Check with some more knowledgeable people here. I have heard people say that the turbos can be replaced without but nobody ever actually said exactly how. AFAIK, the turbos can't be accessed without extensive labor. It is very expensive.
Now, some (stupid
members here may disagree with me, but turbos need to be warmed up and cooled down before and after every single ride, unless you have warranty Hence, Audi owners started to install turbo-timers to prolong the turbo's life.
The stock K03's run at 0.7 bar in stock mode. The limit is 1.3 bar. But even in stock mode sometimes it will spike to 1.2 bar. A chip that runs at 1.0 bar WILL spike at 1.35 bar. Most chips run normal @ 1.2 and who knows what they spike at? Anybody think I'm kidding? Try driving the A4 a bit aggressive and then in dark, pop the hood. If you never knew where the turbo is, you'll know then.
When you take the car to your local indy shop, have them closely inspect all intake hoses. Look for oil leaks. Check the oil level often. What type/weight of oil did they put in? Check the TBB and the BPV's. God forbid the timing belt ( not just the belt, the tensioner and the water pump too) hasn't been replaced yet. If not, you need to do that RIGHT NOW. Find somebody with a VAG tool and check the data out. What's the oil temperature after 10 mins on the freeway? Any loud "whirring" noise when you accelerate from say, 1k rpm's to 3-4k rpm? Do you hear a sound of "rushing air" when you accelerate coming from under the hood?
Now, some (stupid
members here may disagree with me, but turbos need to be warmed up and cooled down before and after every single ride, unless you have warranty Hence, Audi owners started to install turbo-timers to prolong the turbo's life.The stock K03's run at 0.7 bar in stock mode. The limit is 1.3 bar. But even in stock mode sometimes it will spike to 1.2 bar. A chip that runs at 1.0 bar WILL spike at 1.35 bar. Most chips run normal @ 1.2 and who knows what they spike at? Anybody think I'm kidding? Try driving the A4 a bit aggressive and then in dark, pop the hood. If you never knew where the turbo is, you'll know then.
When you take the car to your local indy shop, have them closely inspect all intake hoses. Look for oil leaks. Check the oil level often. What type/weight of oil did they put in? Check the TBB and the BPV's. God forbid the timing belt ( not just the belt, the tensioner and the water pump too) hasn't been replaced yet. If not, you need to do that RIGHT NOW. Find somebody with a VAG tool and check the data out. What's the oil temperature after 10 mins on the freeway? Any loud "whirring" noise when you accelerate from say, 1k rpm's to 3-4k rpm? Do you hear a sound of "rushing air" when you accelerate coming from under the hood?
#8
03-24-2005, 02:53 PM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
ORIGINAL: audi_first
Unfortunately, it is. Check with some more knowledgeable people here. I have heard people say that the turbos can be replaced without but nobody ever actually said exactly how. AFAIK, the turbos can't be accessed without extensive labor. It is very expensive.
Now, some (stupid members here may disagree with me, but turbos need to be warmed up and cooled down before and after every single ride, unless you have warranty Hence, Audi owners started to install turbo-timers to prolong the turbo's life.
The stock K03's run at 0.7 bar in stock mode. The limit is 1.3 bar. But even in stock mode sometimes it will spike to 1.2 bar. A chip that runs at 1.0 bar WILL spike at 1.35 bar. Most chips run normal @ 1.2 and who knows what they spike at? Anybody think I'm kidding? Try driving the A4 a bit aggressive and then in dark, pop the hood. If you never knew where the turbo is, you'll know then.
When you take the car to your local indy shop, have them closely inspect all intake hoses. Look for oil leaks. Check the oil level often. What type/weight of oil did they put in? Check the TBB and the BPV's. God forbid the timing belt ( not just the belt, the tensioner and the water pump too) hasn't been replaced yet. If not, you need to do that RIGHT NOW. Find somebody with a VAG tool and check the data out. What's the oil temperature after 10 mins on the freeway? Any loud "whirring" noise when you accelerate from say, 1k rpm's to 3-4k rpm? Do you hear a sound of "rushing air" when you accelerate coming from under the hood?
Unfortunately, it is. Check with some more knowledgeable people here. I have heard people say that the turbos can be replaced without but nobody ever actually said exactly how. AFAIK, the turbos can't be accessed without extensive labor. It is very expensive.
Now, some (stupid
members here may disagree with me, but turbos need to be warmed up and cooled down before and after every single ride, unless you have warranty Hence, Audi owners started to install turbo-timers to prolong the turbo's life.The stock K03's run at 0.7 bar in stock mode. The limit is 1.3 bar. But even in stock mode sometimes it will spike to 1.2 bar. A chip that runs at 1.0 bar WILL spike at 1.35 bar. Most chips run normal @ 1.2 and who knows what they spike at? Anybody think I'm kidding? Try driving the A4 a bit aggressive and then in dark, pop the hood. If you never knew where the turbo is, you'll know then.
When you take the car to your local indy shop, have them closely inspect all intake hoses. Look for oil leaks. Check the oil level often. What type/weight of oil did they put in? Check the TBB and the BPV's. God forbid the timing belt ( not just the belt, the tensioner and the water pump too) hasn't been replaced yet. If not, you need to do that RIGHT NOW. Find somebody with a VAG tool and check the data out. What's the oil temperature after 10 mins on the freeway? Any loud "whirring" noise when you accelerate from say, 1k rpm's to 3-4k rpm? Do you hear a sound of "rushing air" when you accelerate coming from under the hood?
Good points, I assume incorrectly sometimes that money is no object when people talk about modding. Chipping you're car will be expensive when you decide to shell out the money depends on you. If you prep the car for the added stress it will be before if you decide to just chip it then you will be fixing things and then carrying on about how crappy the car is. As tempting chipping the car is I have put it off and probably will not do it at all. These cars are not cheap to fix or modify for that matter.
Good 1st mod? Boost guage to see WTF is going on with you're turbo's. I agree Warming up and Cooling down are crucial to turbo life I was however, somewhat impressed to find out the the 2.7T motor has a secondary water pump that comes on after the car is off to aid in cooling down the turbo's. Very impressive.
Personally I am going to do the exhaust soon. That will free up some horsies. Turbo cars love freer breathing exhausts.
#9
03-24-2005, 04:49 PM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
yeah thanks for the input. Im definately going to take it easy, figure out what the hell is going on under the hood with boost before i do anything crazy. if the engine looks strong, ill probably end up going with the ko4 RS4 turbos as a first upgrade, seems like a pretty sound investment/strong turbos. its probably the little stuff that ill do as well the dv valves, gaskets, hoses and whatever. not too expensive, and will definately prolong the life. im not going to chip it until i shore up the engine with newer componants, as First suggested. better take time and pay money now than blowing the thing up and dumping thousands into it later.
#10
03-24-2005, 05:38 PM
RE: New 2000 2.7T Buyer.. - Engine holds up?
question, what do u guys mean by cooling th turbos down?
i understand warming everythign up, but like how do u cool it proper, wouldnt u just leave the car off and go inside and they would just cool down or is there something u actually have to do to cool them?
i understand warming everythign up, but like how do u cool it proper, wouldnt u just leave the car off and go inside and they would just cool down or is there something u actually have to do to cool them?