Audi A8 vs. VW Phaeton....thoughts??
 

I have been set on looking for an A8 then I came across a Phaeton. I am assuming the engine (v8), transmission and awd system are the same. Any other thoughts on maintenance differences or problems?

Pretty much the same car but has all of the 04 A8's faults, so its not very reliable in terms of design. If you want to buy an A8 that won't cause you much trouble then go with a 05+ A8, Phaetons aren't even made anymore, plus they don't look as nice IMO.

I am not sure I could afford an '05 A8. I was looking at 2000-2004 A8L. I want to spend under $15k.

Phaetons were imported to the US '04-'06. They are SUPPOSED to be available again in the US for the '09 model year.

If your looking to spend less than 15K for an A8 go with a D2 pre 03 so you can afford the repairs down the road. The D3 04+ will most likely bankrupt you unless you have an extra $4k a year to spend on repairs. Although the D3 usually costs around $5,000 to fix the transmission.

So auditech79... Are you saying the D2 model years are the cheaper ones to maintain, if your budget minded? In the D3 models, aren't the bugs worked out(mostly)?

The D3's have more recalls and TSB repairs then any audi ever released! The bugs are mostly all worked out in the 06+ models but you would still spend 40k+ for one.
A D2 A8 is the easiest to work on, parts are cheaper, and the quality is just as good as a D3 A8. The only thing you have to look out for on the D2 is the tranny, other than that the car is bulletproof.

So since I'm looking to buy CPO in two years or so (2010-2011), if I read you right the 06+ model years may be the right way to buy? The D2 to my understanding the tranny would have to be "recoded" correct and is this an expensive process?

If your looking to buy in a couple of years you could get an 05 probably in the high 20 thousands which would be a good deal. Right now the 04's are in the high 20's. The 05 has lots of improvements that the 04 A8 needed, there aren't many (if any) problems on the 05 A8, im looking to pick up an 05 A8 in the next two years as well. The 06 just has better goodies on it like; and upgraded MMI, FSI engine with more power and better gas mileage, back up camera as standard equipment in most cases etc.
As for the D2 and the transmission, if it has been serviced every 60k and hasn't been driven with any leaks then it should be ok. The problems with the D2 transmissions are usually caused by poor maintenance and not checking for leaks which happen pretty frequently on that car for some reason..

I like phaeton rear lights more than a8, but i hate phaeton gear knob - very annoying for me. I'd choose a8 without a doubt

As I recall, the Pheaton does not have the aluminum space frame which adds lots of weight. If you want a car that drives smaller, the Pheaton would probably feel more like a tank than the A8. Resell value is no comparison. Maybe a Ronin Style S8 from days old would be a good car to look into. You can get them under 20 and they are real cool.

Word, old school S8's are sex on wheels ;)

A8 all the way.

Try finding a D2 S8......
 

The Phaeton is still a cool looking car, but the A8 blows it away, and I'd rather have less weight to carry.

Resale may not be an issue, but I would guess that the resale value rate (% drop every year) is greater than the Phaeton - even when you buy it with substantial drop to then already.

I'd love to have a 99-00 S8, but they are not easy to find. Saw one on the interstate in Atlanta - looked like new, black on tan.....beautiful. I liked Auditech's description, "sex on wheels."

Any more maintenance issues with the S8 over the A8?

No, the S8 and A8 share the same issues.

We went the other way. Since a low mileage A8 was still out of our comfort zone pricewise and the phaeton depreciated so tremendously we bought a '05 V8 phaeton with 34k miles for under 25 thousand. It's admittedly not as sporty as the A8 but more luxurious and rare. We love the looks of the big VW as does everyone we know.

Auditech79, bulletproof? This would be fabulous news to me. I have a 98 with 162K. Great car. Just had tranny rebuilt by a reputable vendor. You posted in '07. It's now '09. Do you still have the same opinion?

Lets start off with the debate. I have driven both cars extensively to point out first. Every phaeton that I came across used had major issues with it, as in been in accidents or over 3 owners or been at auctions. Even without that I have heard many electrical problems that the A8 didn't suffer. When I test drove it the Phaetons glove box wouldn't even pop. The seats in the phaeton are top among any car it compares with. The Nav system is CD so it is very slow, but besides that the car is feature rich and very elegant. Inside that is. Outside the back is awesome looking in my opinion but the front looks bloated like a passat ate a Jetta. Also it has horrible gas mileage because it is an all steel frame borrowing from the Bentley frame. I probably would have gotten the Phaeton if it were available in good condition. But I couldnt find any and I even drove a few states away to look at them. Congrats on finding a nice one, have you had any problems with yours? And good thing you didnt get the 04!

Good to see this debate going. I'm still considering the 06-08 Audi A8 but started reading about the repair cost. Now I'm looking @ VW Pheaton as a second option. What was the last model year of this car? Anyone know why VW discontinued it?

It was discontinued because it did not catch on in the U.S. and did not sell nearly enough cars. And since the Phaeton is older and less popular it will also cost a lot more. Like I said I wouldn't get the Phaeton because of the difficulties I've experienced just test driving them. If you get an A8 just don't get an 04 if you don't have to. And I suggest finding a good place to have your maintenance done besides the ripoff stealer.

Hasn't changed, ive seen D2's with more than 400,000 on the clock.

If i remember right the Phaeton only comes is one wheel base 118," while the A8 offers two wheelbase sizes. I also think that the body of the VW is steel, not aluminum further increasing the weight factor. The final nail in the coffin is......NO MMI!!!! How could you spend so much loot on a car on not have the multi media interface!

I dont know about your market, but here in Europe,motly mid european countries most of Phaetons are already written off because they were all the time on service depos..
I cant remeber I saw any of those here recently, even in Germany...:(
shame, to build oversized VW Passat with great engine and stick that price tag, and still doesnt performe well .
Most of the buyers took Q7 or A8 for Phaeton

If you don't mind me asking, what auto maker do people tend to drive out there in croatia? More german, japanese, or euopean? Sure isn't american LOL!

youre right.
our elders were worshipers of germans (MB, BMW, Audi), less other european cars (italina-french),japanese and korean are in last 20 years up in sale..
Americans?huh, only Chrysler is here, shame...
Chevrlet is also , but they sell ex Deawoo models...so we dont have any original states cars, but younger people like them a lot. like new charger, mustang , etc .

But company cars are mostly german, top are Audi, then MB and BMW... vw PHAETON was seen on streets, but then..misteriously disapeared, hehe it looked like a oversized Passat which is not a good design and they broke down a lot...but its "people's car" bigger brother of Golf..another crapy car ..hehe

Thats about what i figured, however i would imagine a few car enthusiasts have a few corvettes shipped there, maybe even a cobra or two.

1) I think the Phaeton is more similar to Bentley than an Audi - as such, it has quirks, but also a unique presence about it especially in terms of its feel
2) I know this is an Audi forum, but I am pretty sure you can get a very nice S class for that budget, which may end up being a little more reliable for you in the long run ( I think they less mechanically sophisticated than an A8 and are also more common, so less stuff to break, and easier to replace bits if need be)

Sure a Phaeton is pretty cool, but with the other cars on the market it doesn't compare. If the Phaeton had a nicer front end, an MMI, and a DVD based nav system instead of CD based it would be a great car, one that I would buy no doubt.
2) While you could get an s class, what comes with owning a merc, especially an S class. Is the big sticker that should be planted on your forehead saying you have money but no sense of style, or brains. As the S class is commonly bought by over ego'd men buying it for the badge when the cars an ugly slope!
of course IMO, but im sure its shared ;)

Fair enough. But that is what makes them so easy to own - they are made for the mass market.

Funny I haven't checked back to this site in almost a year. I finally do and I see one of my threads near the top. I am still looking.

stop looking, buy Audi ... be a man :-)

04 a8l
 

I looked at both cars and opted for the Audi. My feeling that although the VW was slightly better looking, it would a white elephant upon resale. I do have a question for Auditech79, you mention that this year has many problems and you would not buy one. Knock on wood, I have over 85K on mine and it has been flawless. I absolutely love the car and find reasons to drive it everyday. It might not be the best car on the road, but I don't think there is a better one. What types of problems should I be on the lookout for?

What problems should you look for?
Well when i mean i wouldn't buy one, i didn't mean I (myself) wouldn't buy one, i was just putting myself into the position of the buyer and saving them a headache.
Its good you haven't had any problems yet but most of the problems on the 04 are minor and are just annoying.
Such as: MMI glitches which need re-flashing, MMI screen motors that fail all the time, trunk hinges are out of date which tend to bend, trunk motors that break because of bent hinges, and the worst of all of them is the coolant line that runs over the oil filter. The "pipe" that runs over it is just that, a pipe. It should be a flexible hose so you can get the filter out, you can't do it with an 04 (early 05). The dealer is supposed to replace it with a rubber line which isn't too difficult, however most techs are lazy and money grubbing whores, so they bend the pipe out of the way with a crow bar (myself included :( ) just enough to get the filter out. Most of the time thats just fine because it doesn't have to move much to get enough clearance, however if its bent over too far you can break a fitting that requires ENGINE REMOVAL to change it out, which would be super expensive unless you can prove who did it, when buying it used its almost impossible. So look out for coolant leaks on the passenger's side of the vehicle.