AWD Inop.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,637
From: NEPA / NYC
burn out on dry ground... if you can get your fronts spinning and keep them spinning it's not working.
if you can't burn out well pull the fuse and try it again.
There is a huge difference... the tires will break loose under boost in 1st and second gear without dropping the clutch, if your awd wasn't working you would know it.
if you can't burn out well pull the fuse and try it again.
There is a huge difference... the tires will break loose under boost in 1st and second gear without dropping the clutch, if your awd wasn't working you would know it.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,678
From: Colchester, VT
Haldex service is every 20K miles, not 40, and to confirm that yours isn't working, there is a procedure..
I have a functioning stock control unit with supposedly very few miles on it (maybe 15,000). Not super interested in selling it (yet), as I want to see what I can do to mod it, and/or the haldex limited slip coupling it controls, but of course, money talks.
There is also the option of upgrading to one of the performance units, but that comes at a price. 'Blue' controllers used to be had for around $750, but now they're more like $1000. Blue has more aggressive programming, allowing more power to be sent to the rear vs stock. If you drive your car hard, you'll notice a difference, and will like it. If you don't drive hard, don't waste your money.
I'll mention that I've also had the actual clutch pack (the limited slip coupling, aka LSC) go bad on me. I could spin 4 wheels in very slippery conditions (snow/ice) but on a wet road and an aggressive start, the fronts would spin, but the rears wouldn't. Clutch slippage.
Function-test of the Haldex coupling.
- Rollout in circle
Aim: Check the function of the coupling and the response on the car. Is to be done on level ground.
1. Drive in circle with minimum turning radius at a speed of about 10 km/h.
Disengage the clutch and close the throttle.
Let the car roll to full stop.
2. Drive in circle with minimum turning radius at same speed as in case 1.
Disengage the clutch and run up the engine to 3000 - 4000 rpm.
Let the car roll to full stop.
* If the coupling is working the car will stop in about half the distance in case 2 compared with case 1.
* If there is no difference in the two cases there is a malfunction of the coupling. The problem could be caused by the coupling or by missing signals from the car. A further inspection has to be done to be able to determine the cause of the malfunction.
* If a noise from the HLSC is noticed when turning or driving in circles the oil in the coupling is damaged. The damage can be caused by overheating or by water in the oil.
- AWD test on car lift. (all wheels free to turn.)
Aim: Check the function and the control of the coupling.
1. Pull the handbrake.
Disengage the clutch.
Start the engine.
Put the gearbox in 2:nd gear.
Let the engine idle.
Engage the clutch.
* Engine is supposed to stop when the clutch is engaged. (HLSC controlled as in handbrake start.) If engine do not stop, disengage the hand brake immediately. Otherwise there is a risk of seriously damage on the HLSC.
2. Disengage the handbrake.
Disengage the clutch and start the engine
Put the gearbox in 2:nd gear.
Let the engine idle.
Engage the clutch. At least one front wheel and one rear wheel is supposed to turn.
Pull the handbrake for 2 seconds.
* Front wheel is supposed to turn while the rear wheels are supposed to stop when the brake is pulled. Engine is supposed to run all the time. (HLSC controlled as in handbrake turn.) Don't exceed the 2 seconds or repeat the test for more than 5 times during a 5-minute period. Otherwise there is a risk of seriously damage on the HLSC.
- Rollout in circle
Aim: Check the function of the coupling and the response on the car. Is to be done on level ground.
1. Drive in circle with minimum turning radius at a speed of about 10 km/h.
Disengage the clutch and close the throttle.
Let the car roll to full stop.
2. Drive in circle with minimum turning radius at same speed as in case 1.
Disengage the clutch and run up the engine to 3000 - 4000 rpm.
Let the car roll to full stop.
* If the coupling is working the car will stop in about half the distance in case 2 compared with case 1.
* If there is no difference in the two cases there is a malfunction of the coupling. The problem could be caused by the coupling or by missing signals from the car. A further inspection has to be done to be able to determine the cause of the malfunction.
* If a noise from the HLSC is noticed when turning or driving in circles the oil in the coupling is damaged. The damage can be caused by overheating or by water in the oil.
- AWD test on car lift. (all wheels free to turn.)
Aim: Check the function and the control of the coupling.
1. Pull the handbrake.
Disengage the clutch.
Start the engine.
Put the gearbox in 2:nd gear.
Let the engine idle.
Engage the clutch.
* Engine is supposed to stop when the clutch is engaged. (HLSC controlled as in handbrake start.) If engine do not stop, disengage the hand brake immediately. Otherwise there is a risk of seriously damage on the HLSC.
2. Disengage the handbrake.
Disengage the clutch and start the engine
Put the gearbox in 2:nd gear.
Let the engine idle.
Engage the clutch. At least one front wheel and one rear wheel is supposed to turn.
Pull the handbrake for 2 seconds.
* Front wheel is supposed to turn while the rear wheels are supposed to stop when the brake is pulled. Engine is supposed to run all the time. (HLSC controlled as in handbrake turn.) Don't exceed the 2 seconds or repeat the test for more than 5 times during a 5-minute period. Otherwise there is a risk of seriously damage on the HLSC.
There is also the option of upgrading to one of the performance units, but that comes at a price. 'Blue' controllers used to be had for around $750, but now they're more like $1000. Blue has more aggressive programming, allowing more power to be sent to the rear vs stock. If you drive your car hard, you'll notice a difference, and will like it. If you don't drive hard, don't waste your money.
I'll mention that I've also had the actual clutch pack (the limited slip coupling, aka LSC) go bad on me. I could spin 4 wheels in very slippery conditions (snow/ice) but on a wet road and an aggressive start, the fronts would spin, but the rears wouldn't. Clutch slippage.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
From: Milwaukee
I'll mention that I've also had the actual clutch pack (the limited slip coupling, aka LSC) go bad on me. I could spin 4 wheels in very slippery conditions (snow/ice) but on a wet road and an aggressive start, the fronts would spin, but the rears wouldn't. Clutch slippage.
How did you find this out? Was it due to lack of halidex oil changes?
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,349
From: Everywhere
just out of curiousity, how did you manage to tell your rear wheels werent "spinning" or "moving"? i find it weird that you can just tell, maybe its me though.
maybe find an awd dyno around and see if the rear rollers even spin, then i guess its fair to say the awd is messed up
maybe find an awd dyno around and see if the rear rollers even spin, then i guess its fair to say the awd is messed up
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 33
My dad and I run a GM shop here with one rack and a few engine assembly rooms... I happend to have it on the rack in gear, fronts spin, rears dont. They should. Also I got stuck in snow this weekend and someone outside the vehicle said rears werent spinning.
2nd Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
From: Milwaukee
I had someone watch me on snow to verify my rears spun. However, you can really notice the backend going sideways when your rears are working. Spin the tires at about 8mph with the rpms around 5k in 1st and the backend goes sideways on me everytime when in the snow.
5th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,678
From: Colchester, VT
I opened up my door and looked at the tire NOT spinning when I diagnosed my car.
If you haven't already, scan the car for codes. If its the controller, it should throw a code saying something like 'Haldex memory module malfunction'. From MY memory, thats what my code was. Replaced the controller, and problem solved.
Jake, figuring out my clutch pack was slipping involved noting that the wheels WANTED to spin, but under load, wouldn't perform. I was using a year old Blue controller at that point, and I wasn't throwing any codes, so I assumed it wasn't the controller. Did a little research and found a bunch of people on vortex with R32's that were having the clutch slip problem as low as 30K miles. My car had 130,000 miles at that point, and I assumed it wouldn't be outrageous for the thing to just be worn out.
I don't have any service records for haldex changes with the car, but if the dealer I used to have to go thru back in NY was any representation of the majority of dealers, they weren't doing Haldex changes unless you specifically asked for one. So, anyone lazy, or not reading the manual, could potentially put 100,000+ miles on the original fluid, which certainly can't help the system any.
If you haven't already, scan the car for codes. If its the controller, it should throw a code saying something like 'Haldex memory module malfunction'. From MY memory, thats what my code was. Replaced the controller, and problem solved.
Jake, figuring out my clutch pack was slipping involved noting that the wheels WANTED to spin, but under load, wouldn't perform. I was using a year old Blue controller at that point, and I wasn't throwing any codes, so I assumed it wasn't the controller. Did a little research and found a bunch of people on vortex with R32's that were having the clutch slip problem as low as 30K miles. My car had 130,000 miles at that point, and I assumed it wouldn't be outrageous for the thing to just be worn out.
I don't have any service records for haldex changes with the car, but if the dealer I used to have to go thru back in NY was any representation of the majority of dealers, they weren't doing Haldex changes unless you specifically asked for one. So, anyone lazy, or not reading the manual, could potentially put 100,000+ miles on the original fluid, which certainly can't help the system any.
