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-   -   MetalMan's 1.8T FrankenTurbo (F4H-L, F21) Build Thread (https://www.audiforums.com/forum/nitrous-super-chargers-turbos-26/metalmans-1-8t-frankenturbo-f4h-l-f21-build-thread-177020/)

MyA4Mobs 08-20-2012 06:48 PM

Wow how can you get away with a .040" gap???
Pleeeeeeaase dyno soon so I can deside whether to go K04 pc16 or Frankenturbo.

MetalMan 08-20-2012 08:05 PM

2.0T coil packs put out a stronger spark than 1.8T coil packs. This allows the gap to be raised while still keeping a spark that won't blow out from forced induction :) has something to do with the fact that newer engines have to run a larger gap to produce a more efficient burn, thus producing less emissions and improving MPG.

Dyno has to wait on my tune to get tweaked. For my tune to get tweaked, I need to install the new (fourth one) wideband O2 sensor and find some time to do some pulls (on the street) to take data from VAG-COM and my wideband gauge. Then I have to compile the data and send it to United Motorsports.

IMO don't go for the K04... it will disappoint compared to a well-running FrankenTurbo setup.

MyA4Mobs 08-21-2012 02:48 PM

Definitely looking into a frankenturbo. Any thoughts on a c2 motorsports tune either stage 3 or 5? Looks doable especially for that price...

MetalMan 08-21-2012 08:55 PM

Just curious why you're specifically considering C2 Motorsports? I looked at them when I was weighing my options, but they don't mention that they will customize your tune. For the same $600 as C2 Motorsports Stage 5 (550cc / 3in MAF) you can get a United Motorsport Stage 3 tune (630cc / 3in MAF):
Audi B5 A4 AEB1.8T Performance Software | UnitedMotorSport.net
You can get 4 Siemens 630cc injectors that will fit directly on your AEB head for only $200 brand new (doubt you can get 550cc injectors for that cheap). I had really great service from Jeff @ UM, too. He said that this AEB Stage 3 tune is what he daily drives.

MyA4Mobs 08-21-2012 11:46 PM

I definitely want to keep my options open as well. In all honesty I guess I just want a tune that I don't have to mess with even if I loose a little power because of it. Is that stage 3 tune something I would have to tweak and mess with over and over?
I really wish these companies had some sort of power estimates...

MetalMan 08-22-2012 11:40 AM

The United Motorsport tune doesn't necessarily require tweaking. In fact I've been running on the standard UM Stage 3 tune for 6 months now... I want to tweak it mainly because my engine runs a bit lean between 1800-2300 RPM under mild load, but also to increase power availability. Since I've been running it 6 months now it's safe to say this tune doesn't need to be tweaked.

The only thing these companies can tell you with regards to power is what their tune is "capable" of (which in many cases will be the limit of the injectors and/or MAF sensor). The power you make will depend on many things... (turbo, IATs, ambient conditions, fuel used, etc.)

MyA4Mobs 08-22-2012 01:27 PM

Ok understood. Say I was in the same boat as you and wanted to get it tweaked also. What would I need to do to provide them with the necessary data to make an adjustment? Or could I have them copy your tweaked tune once you have given them data? Think it's a problem that I'm apr tuned right now also?
Oh and what kind of gas mileage have you been getting for the last 6 months?

MetalMan 08-22-2012 07:54 PM

To tweak your tune, you need VAG-COM to log the following (this is from Jeff @ United Motorsport):
Fueling: 01, 02, 031 (please provide wideband info vs. RPM for fueling adjustments)
ignition: 010, 020
boost 03, 114,115
do not use 'advanced measuring blocks'


One of the most important things is the wideband data which will come from an additional wideband sensor/gauge... and then being able to correlate that wideband data with RPM.

As for using my tweaked tune, I'm sure it could be done, but every engine will be different. The idea is to optimize the tune for the specific components used on the car, and also for the condition of the engine, etc.

May I suggest buying an additional ECU to send in to get tuned? You can often find used (stock) ECUs for about $80 shipped, which really doesn't add much to the overall upgrade cost when factoring in turbo, FMIC, exhaust, tune, injectors/FPR, etc. Then once you upgrade you could sell your APR ECU for something like $250-350. Jeff @ United Motorsport has even told me that the Stage 3 tune can be run on a stock car (assuming you're running 630cc injectors, 3bar FPR, and 3in MAF housing).

EDIT: here is my MPG graph. This starts right when I installed the FrankenTurbo.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...i%20A4/MPG.png
GIAC PC-16 is at 133,500 miles, "hillbilly tuning" is at 135,673 miles. From 138,855 to 139,260 miles the engine was bone stock (after that everything for the upgrade turbo went back in). The United Motorsport tune went in at 139,680 miles and my car is currently at 142,900 miles.

MyA4Mobs 08-23-2012 12:05 AM

Wow that MPG isn't even bad..
How can I get an ECU that is exactly for my car? When I sent it into APR they were complaining about the fact that it was an early ECU from 98 but eventually they got it all worked out.

I'm getting an AEM wideband soon, so if I got that and a VAG-COM what else would I need? Seems like logging data might be beyond my capabilities haha. Completely understand what you're saying though as far as getting a custom tune completely perfect for your exact car and setup.

If I knew how to log I might just follow your footsteps though throughout this build.

Thanks for all the solid info by the way... Nice to talk to someone that has already done what I plan to achieve.

MetalMan 08-23-2012 12:22 AM

In that MPG graph you can see that when my average miles per day goes down, my MPG goes down... that means more city driving, less highway. City driving absolutely kills MPG for me; I'd probably average 18-19 MPG with my conservative driving if there were enough lights (keep in mind I live in SoCal). If my driving were purely highway I could average 28MPG @ 70mph.

I constantly try to improve gas mileage. Engine brake all the time, let off the gas 1/4 mile or so before coming up to a red light, normally I don't hit more than 0-2psi while accelerating, and keep plenty of distance between my car and the car in front of me. This behavior also allows my brakes to last longer, and in general is far better for the car/environment/wallet. Not to mention it makes driving far less stressful. Naturally I gotta throw in a 2nd gear WOT pull every once in a while though ;)

There are 2 main requirements for an ECU: 1) it has the same part number as your ECU (some people have successfully tried ECUs with different part numbers), and 2) it needs to have the same coding as your ECU. 1) is easy, if you get VAG-COM and go into the Engine module it will tell your ECU part number (so you wouldn't have to go under the hood to find out). 2) is also easy, because with VAG-COM you can recode an ECU to match the coding on your current ECU. There is a DIY on this recoding procedure in the DIY section.

VAG-COM has a neat built-in logging feature. You simply specify the directory to save the file to and click Start, after selecting from a list the items which you are going to log (timing, fuel, air flow, etc). My wideband can hook up to a PC and the manufacturer provides software for logging.

So the only other thing you'll need for logging is a laptop with Windows.

And BTW I'm glad you're asking questions!


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