My experience with multiple codes, EPC, CEL, and DIY
#1
06-22-2016, 07:35 PM
My experience with multiple codes, EPC, CEL, and DIY
Hello from North Carolina, USA.
I have a 2008 B7 Cabrio, and, generally speaking, I love it.
About six months ago, however, she started to test the limits of our relationship. Intermittently, I would start the car, and it would crank four or five times before starting, and the EPC light came on. Then, about five seconds later, the CEL. Since she had just gone out of extended warranty, I did what anyone would do: I cursed effusively for ten minutes, and then went and bought a code reader. (There is no Audi dealership within an hour of me, and the "foreign car guys" around here are good, but expensive.) The wired code reader just gave me repetitive nondescriptive codes, which I cleared, and then she ran fine for a few days, until it happened again. And again. And again.
Each time, the codes flew immediately after starting the car -- not while it was in motion, or even in gear. The common codes were P0244 (Turbo Wastegate Solenoid Valve Low Circuit); P0441 (Evaporative Emissions Control Circuit Malfunction); P0089 (Fuel Pressure Regulator); and a couple of others. I bought a Bluetooth OBDII reader and used my phone to read and clear the codes frequently.
Finally, I bought a Turbo Wastegate Solenoid Valve, an Evaporative Emissions Control Valve, and a fuel line regulator, and had a local guy install the parts for me. Total cost: about $ 800.00. I felt pretty confident that I had diagnosed and fixed the problems. Fate, that incredible bastard, had other ideas.
Two days after the check cleared, the lights all came back on and I was back to square one. When the EPC is on, as you know, the car is in cripple mode, and cannot accelerate faster than a 1991 Hoverglide Assisted Living Scooter for Very Old People, but will eventually move and get up to 60 mph, but not much more.
I did some snooping here and elsewhere in the aetherweb, and found that the consensus was that a relay was bad (644 or 641, depending on when Audi relabeled the part number), and that the relay controlled the fuel pump, which should have been supplying juice to the engine before I cranked it, thereby getting the electrics (i.e., valves) up to speed immediately.
I realize that this technical jargon may be over the heads of many participants here, but you're just going to have to suck it up.
So, I bought one 644 relay from a vendor on eBay for 7.98 plus shipping. That's right -- ABOUT EIGHT ******* DOLLARS -- instead of the enormous amount I spent earlier. I then went to YouTube and found a video of a guy who was removing the ECU in order to send it to some terrorist organization in order to reprogram it. (I am generalizing -- I don't know if they are a terrorist organization, but they have beards, so that's enough in Donald Trump's America to trigger Code Yellow.) The relay panel in the B7 is UNDER the ECU, because that's just convenient for German engineers.
So, with the help of my neighbor, who owns the only other B7 in my entire town (I'm not kidding), we did the surgery last Thursday (six days ago). The problem is that the panel has TWO 641/644 relays, and the article or post I read did not specify which to replace. Having such luck as I have had my entire life, we replaced the left one first. The codes went out, and I was ecstatic. We put the car back together, and 45 minutes later, the codes came back on when I was going to go to the grocery store to buy ingredients for a romantic dinner for my wife. I cursed yet again.
We took it apart, replaced the RIGHT relay, and put the removed relay into the left slot. The codes went out.
It has been six days, and she starts on the first try every try, and I now get to drive in Sport Mode consistently for the first time in about six months. With the top down. Which is the whole reason I bought the car in the first place.
So, what is the lesson? Several: (A) If you have the money, Learn German, Buy Vag Com software, become friends with Hans down at the dealership; (B) If you don't -- never assume a CEL is mechanical in any way. It is very likely electrical, and can be fixed cheaply; (C) Buy a code reader and Google any codes that your app can't identify; (D) Make mushroom risotto. Like, really take the time to make it right. She will ******* love it. The wife, not the car.
I have a 2008 B7 Cabrio, and, generally speaking, I love it.
About six months ago, however, she started to test the limits of our relationship. Intermittently, I would start the car, and it would crank four or five times before starting, and the EPC light came on. Then, about five seconds later, the CEL. Since she had just gone out of extended warranty, I did what anyone would do: I cursed effusively for ten minutes, and then went and bought a code reader. (There is no Audi dealership within an hour of me, and the "foreign car guys" around here are good, but expensive.) The wired code reader just gave me repetitive nondescriptive codes, which I cleared, and then she ran fine for a few days, until it happened again. And again. And again.
Each time, the codes flew immediately after starting the car -- not while it was in motion, or even in gear. The common codes were P0244 (Turbo Wastegate Solenoid Valve Low Circuit); P0441 (Evaporative Emissions Control Circuit Malfunction); P0089 (Fuel Pressure Regulator); and a couple of others. I bought a Bluetooth OBDII reader and used my phone to read and clear the codes frequently.
Finally, I bought a Turbo Wastegate Solenoid Valve, an Evaporative Emissions Control Valve, and a fuel line regulator, and had a local guy install the parts for me. Total cost: about $ 800.00. I felt pretty confident that I had diagnosed and fixed the problems. Fate, that incredible bastard, had other ideas.
Two days after the check cleared, the lights all came back on and I was back to square one. When the EPC is on, as you know, the car is in cripple mode, and cannot accelerate faster than a 1991 Hoverglide Assisted Living Scooter for Very Old People, but will eventually move and get up to 60 mph, but not much more.
I did some snooping here and elsewhere in the aetherweb, and found that the consensus was that a relay was bad (644 or 641, depending on when Audi relabeled the part number), and that the relay controlled the fuel pump, which should have been supplying juice to the engine before I cranked it, thereby getting the electrics (i.e., valves) up to speed immediately.
I realize that this technical jargon may be over the heads of many participants here, but you're just going to have to suck it up.
So, I bought one 644 relay from a vendor on eBay for 7.98 plus shipping. That's right -- ABOUT EIGHT ******* DOLLARS -- instead of the enormous amount I spent earlier. I then went to YouTube and found a video of a guy who was removing the ECU in order to send it to some terrorist organization in order to reprogram it. (I am generalizing -- I don't know if they are a terrorist organization, but they have beards, so that's enough in Donald Trump's America to trigger Code Yellow.) The relay panel in the B7 is UNDER the ECU, because that's just convenient for German engineers.
So, with the help of my neighbor, who owns the only other B7 in my entire town (I'm not kidding), we did the surgery last Thursday (six days ago). The problem is that the panel has TWO 641/644 relays, and the article or post I read did not specify which to replace. Having such luck as I have had my entire life, we replaced the left one first. The codes went out, and I was ecstatic. We put the car back together, and 45 minutes later, the codes came back on when I was going to go to the grocery store to buy ingredients for a romantic dinner for my wife. I cursed yet again.
We took it apart, replaced the RIGHT relay, and put the removed relay into the left slot. The codes went out.
It has been six days, and she starts on the first try every try, and I now get to drive in Sport Mode consistently for the first time in about six months. With the top down. Which is the whole reason I bought the car in the first place.
So, what is the lesson? Several: (A) If you have the money, Learn German, Buy Vag Com software, become friends with Hans down at the dealership; (B) If you don't -- never assume a CEL is mechanical in any way. It is very likely electrical, and can be fixed cheaply; (C) Buy a code reader and Google any codes that your app can't identify; (D) Make mushroom risotto. Like, really take the time to make it right. She will ******* love it. The wife, not the car.
Last edited by rjmatty; 06-23-2016 at 09:21 AM.
#2
06-22-2016, 09:38 PM
Great info! Having the same issue with 07 A4 2.0T Cabriolet. Initially I got the following codes P0171, P0243, P0444 and P2400. So I replaced the N75 valve and diverter valve. Reset the codes and one day later got the CEL and EPC lights again. Scan the codes again and I got P0458, P0245, P2401 and P2295. According to auto zone code readings, it calls for a "Relay-Air Pump", however I don't believe the "Air Pump" description is the correct. Is the relay you replaced a 4 pin 40 amp relay? I ended up buying the relay since it was cheap to give a shot. The issue that I am having is removing the driver's side wiper in order to remove the cover for the ECU. Once I get that stupid wiper off I will replace the relay and hopefully I get luck and the CEL and EPC lights won't come back.
#3
06-23-2016, 09:19 AM
That sounds exactly like my situation. I think the relay replacement will fix it.
As far as the wiper removal, the driver's side one took more persuasion than did the passenger side one. If you have a small pry bar, like a cat's paw, it helps with leverage as you wiggle the arm loose. Just make sure to use a lever point that is against metal, not glass or the plastic cowl just under the windshield.
I found that the technique in this video worked. When in doubt, if there is not an Audi video on YouTube, look at VWs, especially Jettas, for similar approaches. The trick, in my case, was not to wiggle the arm up and down (that is, vertically against the windshield), but in and out (toward the windshield), creating a little bounce effect. With the cat's paw, it came off after a few minutes. Just be patient, and don't grab or push too hard. Keep your hands on the main metal part of the arm.
As far as the wiper removal, the driver's side one took more persuasion than did the passenger side one. If you have a small pry bar, like a cat's paw, it helps with leverage as you wiggle the arm loose. Just make sure to use a lever point that is against metal, not glass or the plastic cowl just under the windshield.
I found that the technique in this video worked. When in doubt, if there is not an Audi video on YouTube, look at VWs, especially Jettas, for similar approaches. The trick, in my case, was not to wiggle the arm up and down (that is, vertically against the windshield), but in and out (toward the windshield), creating a little bounce effect. With the cat's paw, it came off after a few minutes. Just be patient, and don't grab or push too hard. Keep your hands on the main metal part of the arm.
#4
06-30-2016, 01:49 PM
Thanks for information RJMatty. I tried everything and the arm wouldn't come out, so I ended up having to borrow a windshield wiper arm pulley in order to remove it. Now that the difficult part of the project is done, I moved on into the ECU box. After opening the box, I noticed I had 2 relays marked as "614" instead of the 641 & 644 you referenced. However, since my car is one year older than yours I figured you could have an updated part number. Long story short, I purchased two new relays and replaced them both as I didn't know which one was causing the problems. I have been driving the car for a week now and the CEL and EPC lights haven't come back on. I am confident that this issue is now resolved. Thanks for the post.
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