IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
#1
04-15-2007, 08:05 PM
IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
[align=center]sence the dsg hasnt been around long enough... if i decide on geting the DSG how do i know that down the line a few years later thousands of miles later... how am i sure that the DSG isnt gonna be a problem .. no one has had this car with the DSG long enough to no that this transmission isnt gonna be a problem later on... can any one clear this up for me? im a little sketchy about geting the DSG
-thanks =]
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-thanks =]
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#2
04-15-2007, 08:48 PM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
Although I'm no longer an owner I'll chime in.
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
Hope this helps
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
Hope this helps
#3
04-15-2007, 08:59 PM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
ORIGINAL: A3Night
Although I'm no longer an owner I'll chime in.
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
Hope this helps
Although I'm no longer an owner I'll chime in.
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
Hope this helps
#4
04-15-2007, 10:45 PM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
ORIGINAL: audiismypassion
helped alot thanks for all the advise.. as of now i think i want to get a MT because i plan on keeping my caar more then 50K miles haha thanks for all the help
ORIGINAL: A3Night
Although I'm no longer an owner I'll chime in.
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
Although I'm no longer an owner I'll chime in.
I had my car for about 18k miles before it was totaled. In that time, I spend at least 17500 miles in stage II APR. Now, my experieces are anything far from normal but I did notice several things.
As I went up in mileage, I noticed no significant issues with the DSG transmission. Every shift was crisp, clutch bites hard, and the no issues with upshift/downshift in terms of the transmissions abilities. However, once you add the human element into it (me), I found that I can easily confuse it at will. For example, if I modulate the throttle a bit weird (ie car wants and knows to shift at 2.5k and at the last second I want it to shift at 4k) I usually get rough shifts. Also, during normal driving if I decide to change my style and drive spiritly in tip mode, I can make the DSG hesitate when I request a downshift (ie. I come into the corner driving like a granny and decide to go through it like a porsche). This hesistation usually lasts as long as 2-3 seconds and during this time no gear is selected and the throttle does not respond until the tranny desides on the gear.
Of course, these are all quirks. THe transmission adapts to your driving style and then predicts what you want to do next. As long as you have these in mind, you can easily avoid those two issues.
HOWEVER!
I did notice something just recently. I got a chance to drive in a similarly equipped A3 (swau's with all the mods I had minus boost guage) with less mileage but still stage II. During that time I noticed his transmission had at least 10-15% more bite!!! So what does that mean? It could possibly mean that DSG can deteriotate over time with high performance mods. Now I really can't say for sure but I was worried enough when shopping for a replacement A3 or GTI I knew I didn't want DSG.
I can't say how long the DSG will last. However, there are facts that DSG in the 2.0T's are rated for less torque. Also, the DSG transmissions are factory sealed making all upgrades to clutch packs a little more difficult not to mention costly. If you plan to mod the heck out of the car, its probably best to stick with manual. THe only reasons I would get DSG again is if I dont plan to keep the car more than 50k miles.
Please dont take this the wrong way. I'm writing this in hopes that any MT lover that wants to try DSG will realize my words and possibly take several more test drives with the sales person gagged and taped up in the boot before making a decision. I also might add that DSG is amazingly fast. If driver skill variable is taken out, the DSG tranny will definatly give you a significant advantage in the twisties and track days as virtually 60% of the task is automatically taken car for you. This reason alone is why I was satisfied with the DSG. But as you all know, I got bored with it too. It was great while it lasted, but I needed something that would reward & punish driver skill.
* Audi TT and A3. Audi have named the DSG "S-Tronic" in newer models.
* Bugatti Veyron 16.4 (* not a Borg Warner DSG, but marketed as one due to parent company)
* SEAT Altea, Toledo, and León
* Å*koda Octavia
* Volkswagen Passat, Volkswagen GTI/R32, Touran, Eos, and Jetta/Bora.
#5
04-15-2007, 11:22 PM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
Yeah, the DSG is an amazing piece of engineering. I find Richard's information very valuable, but you need to do more checking on investigating on your own. Time will tell how good the transmission holds up to the use and abuse. I purchased the manual transmission because that is what I prefer, and I knew that I would be modifying it heavily and wasn't sure about the torque handling capabilities of the DSG. For the "normal" driver, I wouldn't have any hesitation suggesting the DSG, just be sure you know what you want from your car.
Cheers!
Cheers!
#6
04-15-2007, 11:53 PM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
DSG is not new. It's been on the TT before the A3. Just like a traditional manual, it can run into problems. Mechanically, it's not that much different than a manual with a wet clutch.
As the previous 2 posters have said, do more research and stop using CAPS in your title.
Seriously, watch this:
http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
As the previous 2 posters have said, do more research and stop using CAPS in your title.
Seriously, watch this:
http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
#7
04-16-2007, 01:00 AM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
ORIGINAL: JohnS1
I think you need to educate yourself a lot more on DSG then accept one viewpoint and jump to a conclusion. DSG doesn't degrade quickly, but driving a car and shifting the car constantly at redline (or driving hard) is rough on any transmission. I suggest you really pan through many long term testing available online of cars that use DSG before forming a opinion. There are DSG transmission in the following vehicles:
* Audi TT and A3. Audi have named the DSG "S-Tronic" in newer models.
* Bugatti Veyron 16.4 (* not a Borg Warner DSG, but marketed as one due to parent company)
* SEAT Altea, Toledo, and León
* Å*koda Octavia
* Volkswagen Passat, Volkswagen GTI/R32, Touran, Eos, and Jetta/Bora.
I think you need to educate yourself a lot more on DSG then accept one viewpoint and jump to a conclusion. DSG doesn't degrade quickly, but driving a car and shifting the car constantly at redline (or driving hard) is rough on any transmission. I suggest you really pan through many long term testing available online of cars that use DSG before forming a opinion. There are DSG transmission in the following vehicles:
* Audi TT and A3. Audi have named the DSG "S-Tronic" in newer models.
* Bugatti Veyron 16.4 (* not a Borg Warner DSG, but marketed as one due to parent company)
* SEAT Altea, Toledo, and León
* Å*koda Octavia
* Volkswagen Passat, Volkswagen GTI/R32, Touran, Eos, and Jetta/Bora.
#8
04-16-2007, 02:09 AM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
ORIGINAL: A3Night
But as I stated before, DSG can possibly deteriotate over time with high performance mods.
But as I stated before, DSG can possibly deteriotate over time with high performance mods.
#9
04-16-2007, 03:12 AM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
ORIGINAL: A3Night
My theory was not stated in the sense that DSG will fail... rather what I was trying to get across to the OP is his options. In reading his previous posts, he wants a car which will be fun to drive and to do a few mods. Once you add mods to the car, you nullify all long term testing results as you alter several variables. Now, if you stay stock I have no doubts that the tranny will last as long if not longer than a MT due to the fact that the computer will be making perfect shifts where the avg driver is bound to screw it up every now and then. But as I stated before, DSG can possibly deteriotate over time with high performance mods.
My theory was not stated in the sense that DSG will fail... rather what I was trying to get across to the OP is his options. In reading his previous posts, he wants a car which will be fun to drive and to do a few mods. Once you add mods to the car, you nullify all long term testing results as you alter several variables. Now, if you stay stock I have no doubts that the tranny will last as long if not longer than a MT due to the fact that the computer will be making perfect shifts where the avg driver is bound to screw it up every now and then. But as I stated before, DSG can possibly deteriotate over time with high performance mods.
I would hope that DSG is beefy enough to handle the extra stress of some mods for a good long time. But time will tell. Good subject to discuss.
There are always people arguing about manual versus DSG online. A amusing one with many posts is this recent vwvortex forums discussion "Does no one see a problem with DSG?"
For the new guy I would suggest reading this DSG info from the TT owners club (2004) to better understand DSG from Audi servicing perspective when DSG was new. A few years later it looks like DSG has been pretty reliable.
#10
04-16-2007, 03:31 AM
RE: IMPORTANT QUESTION ABOUT DSG
thanks for all the help i will look in on i omre on my own .. but it was just a question that was on my mind for a while ... sorry about the caps in my subject thing haha i put it on caps to catch your attention and i can see that its working haha