Exhaust and where to get it.
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 948
From:
Exhaust and where to get it.
Im just curious which exhaust is best for an 1.8t A4. I would want probebly a cat back (or turbo back if the price is right). I dont like a brash, loud, annoying sound that can be heard miles and miles away... a deep, low rumble would be nice. Can anyone recommend REMUS? Also, a more important issue.. is there a place in the San Jose area that wont charge me an arm and a leg to install the exhaust. I have been to a few places and they either wont install customer parts for insurance reason or they charge way too much.
Thanks!
Thanks!
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,684
From: Columbs, Ohio
RE: Exhaust and where to get it.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,276
From:
RE: Exhaust and where to get it.
APR has a nice exhaust and i believe they sell it with the mid muffler removed. Custom is cool but all these companies spent countless hours desiging these exhaust systems so they will be easy to install, nice hp gains and a quality look. I have milltek with a techtonics tuning 2.5" DP with my mid muffler removed and replaced with 2.5" straight piping. The sound is awsome its only noticeable when you get on it or whenever the turbo spools to higher psi. I have a labree test pipe that i have yet to install but ill get to it one day, i need a VAG just incase my MIL CEL eliminator doesn't work but supposedly it does.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 217
From:
RE: Exhaust and where to get it.
evila4,
in my opinion buy remus, if you want performance buy borla, why? because i think, do the thinks with the right people, the buy exhaust from an exhaust maker
read this:
Top line performace ( all-out )
===================
Supersprint: Italian made, high quality, but there are compatability
problems that may arise. Great Power benfits, but only if cat is
removed. Power benefits are well diminished with the inclusion of the
cat. Stainless steel (lasts forever). A bit loud (this is subjective),
but a very good reputation. Costs $$$ expensive but I don't know
exact numbers
Borla: I have no additional info. But stainless is always a good way
to go.
Supertrapp: Very popular, especially in autoX and solo. Stainless is
always a good bet. But most find Supertrapp too loud for everyday use.
Single muffler system with an upstream glasspack (I think)
Second Line performance ( not quite all-out )
=======================
[Note: This is in no particular order--jan]
TechTonics: USA made (OR). High quality, popular in autoX. Very decent
power numbers (varies with engine type). Designed for use with cat.
Available with a stainless steel option. Caution, this stainless steel
option is not what it seems. The mufflers are still aluminized, only
the pipes are stainless. Still, a very good system for the money.
Single muffler system with glass-pack. approx $240 USD, $290 USD for
the stainless. Definately louder than stock.
[From ND]: Tectonics system is nothing special, just bent steel pipe
with a cheap muffler. You could have a good muffler shop bend you up
a system. Add a resonator and a turbo muffler from the same manufacturer
they use and you got the same thing.
[Fraom Jan: See my comments under Autotech]
AutoTech Sport Tuning: [Addition by Jan] USA made. I had an opportunity
to compare both a TT exhaust for a 16V Golf 2 (~350US$) and an AST 304SS
exhaust for a Golf 3 (~400US$ in late 95).
The concept for both mufflers were similar:
A set of bent SS tubes, a Dynomax muffler, a bunch of clamps and assorted
hardware.
Where the two differed was:
The TT exhaust had a resonator, the AST did not.
The AST tubes were thicker then the TT tubes (~2.6mm vs ~1.5 mm)
The TT tubes showed some surface rust on the inside.
The ODs were both 5.6 cm, the IDs were ~5.2 cm for AST vs ~5.4 cm on the TT
TT used a Dynomax Ultra Flow 3 1/4 x 7 3/4" #17279 muffler, while AST
used a slightly different model #17277 (not much apparent difference
between the two).
Compare the welds on AST's muffler & tip on the bottom of the pic
with TT bent tube and resonator in: <img src="exh_ast_tt_1.gif">
The welds on the AST look cleaner.
AST welded their nice chromed tip directly to the Dynomax muffler (which
means that you'll have to cut it off if you ever replace the muffler), while
TT delivered a plane bent tube (I *may* have been missing a part
because I could not figure out how to connect it to the muffler).
The clamps were stock quality (band type) on the AST vs std "U" wire type clamps
on TT's
AST welded the hangers on the tubing (see pic) vs TT who welded some of
the hangers on their clamps.
I don't know whether comparing two exhaust systems is representative
for all their exhaust systems, but AST's system seemed nicer.
Naturally, I could not compare how these two actually performed, compare
them to other exhaust systems out there, how loud they'd be,
how long they actually last and so on.
Gillet: German Made. Very High quality. Designed for European Pro-
Rally, this means it's next to indestructable. Very Good power
benefits (although not the best) with little change in sound at normal
or idle gas. Stainless steel construction INSIDE the mufflers. This is
where most systems suffer the worst corrosion/rust damage, unless you
live where roads are salted in the winter. Complete bolt on two muffler
system plus a baffle pipe between the cat and mid muffler. Nice subtle
round black end pipe (available in dual tip as well). Gillet is an OEM
in Germany, and I believe at some point for US made VW's as well. To
quote almost every source, "You can't go wrong with Gillet".
Cost: between $370 and $420 USD depending on your source. Note: Make
sure when purchasing to get the chain hangers, the Gillet is a HEAVY
system and will break normal exhaust hangers. These are made by VW
motorsport and are available at most tuning shops. They run from $9-15
per, (you'll need three). Also you'll need an adapter depending on
your engine type. Nice deep tone at idle. Nice deep GROWL on the gas.
[From ND]: Very high quality system from Germany with limited fitment as
they have no US offices and are imported by a few companies. No warranty
reconized as only covered by what the few importers will offer. High
priced and worth the money.
Sebring: German Made. VERY HIGH quality, slightly better power than
the Gillet (it is noticeable). Sebring builds for AMG in Germany, they
are also OEM for high end Mercedes and others as well. Solid Stainless
inside and out and costs it too (ouch!). I have no specifics on this
system, but if you've got money to burn, you can't go wrong here. Just
be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$$. You'll never need another system
again.
[From ND]: Very high priced. High quality. Limited fitment as designed for
European models. US offices from importer. Lifetime Warranty
ABT: available through JT automotive only. ABT is a very reputable
high perfomance tuner in germany, and has just started bringing stuff
into the states (I think). Their system is solid stainless inside and
out (big bucks) and will last a very long time. As far as perfomance
goes, one can only assume that it's worth the money, as I was unable
to get any numbers out of the guys at JT. However, they claim that
ABT builds the mufflers, although from all other sources ABT is only a
tuner and has their mufflers built by someone else. Unfortunately, no
one else has tested the system in the states except European Car on
the the ABT GTI. (Maybe someone can write to EC for some more detailed
info). My own opinion: Wait untill it's been in the market longer, and
try to find out more about it. Really Big $$$$ but they look really
slick, dual chrome tip (if that's what you want)
Eurosport: I know nothing about this system, apart from the fact that
it is not stainless and that some people have claimed it's loud.
New Dimension [added by Jan]: They are also in the process of fabricating
exhaust systems. I don't have sufficient feedback about these as yet.
Medium Performance ( simple systems )
==================
ANSA: I don't know too much about this system except that it's not
stainless, it's loud, and little or no power gains are there.
Leistritz: German Made, decent quality. Leistritz is OEM in germany. The
performance system that is sold in the US is simply a single turbo
muffler with a wide fat tail pipe. Non-biased shops have tested it and
claim that there is little performance to be had, just a slight
cosmetic change and a louder buzzy sound. Maybe it does work, but a
number of independent sources refute this. cost: approx $275 USD.
[From ND]: From Germany with US offices to back their 2 year warranty
direct fit for every model of VW. Leistritz is OEM on most German cars
and is one of the best mid priced systems. All systems have 2 year
warranty and come complete with all needed hardware.
Remus [From ND]- Very high priced and questionable fitment and hp gains. I only
have limited experience with their system. [From Jan: I am not sure they
should be categorized under "medium performers". Remus mufflers
are jewels compared to some of the other mufflers, at least on looks.
I don't have enough info on their performance, reliability, etc]
Hor: Unknown manufacturer but is nearly identical to Listritz, cost is
similar too.
Stock: VW OEM stock mufflers are pretty damn good at what they do, and
the lifetime warantee is not bad either. Some would argue that that is
all one needs (yeah right!). A good, but $$$$, bet.
Low End Performance ( Sub-standard systems )
===================
Your choice: Sears, Midas, Meineke... Caveat Emptor. They work, but
that's it. and if you're reading this list, you're probably not
interested in any of these options.
in my opinion buy remus, if you want performance buy borla, why? because i think, do the thinks with the right people, the buy exhaust from an exhaust maker
read this:
Top line performace ( all-out )
===================
Supersprint: Italian made, high quality, but there are compatability
problems that may arise. Great Power benfits, but only if cat is
removed. Power benefits are well diminished with the inclusion of the
cat. Stainless steel (lasts forever). A bit loud (this is subjective),
but a very good reputation. Costs $$$ expensive but I don't know
exact numbers
Borla: I have no additional info. But stainless is always a good way
to go.
Supertrapp: Very popular, especially in autoX and solo. Stainless is
always a good bet. But most find Supertrapp too loud for everyday use.
Single muffler system with an upstream glasspack (I think)
Second Line performance ( not quite all-out )
=======================
[Note: This is in no particular order--jan]
TechTonics: USA made (OR). High quality, popular in autoX. Very decent
power numbers (varies with engine type). Designed for use with cat.
Available with a stainless steel option. Caution, this stainless steel
option is not what it seems. The mufflers are still aluminized, only
the pipes are stainless. Still, a very good system for the money.
Single muffler system with glass-pack. approx $240 USD, $290 USD for
the stainless. Definately louder than stock.
[From ND]: Tectonics system is nothing special, just bent steel pipe
with a cheap muffler. You could have a good muffler shop bend you up
a system. Add a resonator and a turbo muffler from the same manufacturer
they use and you got the same thing.
[Fraom Jan: See my comments under Autotech]
AutoTech Sport Tuning: [Addition by Jan] USA made. I had an opportunity
to compare both a TT exhaust for a 16V Golf 2 (~350US$) and an AST 304SS
exhaust for a Golf 3 (~400US$ in late 95).
The concept for both mufflers were similar:
A set of bent SS tubes, a Dynomax muffler, a bunch of clamps and assorted
hardware.
Where the two differed was:
The TT exhaust had a resonator, the AST did not.
The AST tubes were thicker then the TT tubes (~2.6mm vs ~1.5 mm)
The TT tubes showed some surface rust on the inside.
The ODs were both 5.6 cm, the IDs were ~5.2 cm for AST vs ~5.4 cm on the TT
TT used a Dynomax Ultra Flow 3 1/4 x 7 3/4" #17279 muffler, while AST
used a slightly different model #17277 (not much apparent difference
between the two).
Compare the welds on AST's muffler & tip on the bottom of the pic
with TT bent tube and resonator in: <img src="exh_ast_tt_1.gif">
The welds on the AST look cleaner.
AST welded their nice chromed tip directly to the Dynomax muffler (which
means that you'll have to cut it off if you ever replace the muffler), while
TT delivered a plane bent tube (I *may* have been missing a part
because I could not figure out how to connect it to the muffler).
The clamps were stock quality (band type) on the AST vs std "U" wire type clamps
on TT's
AST welded the hangers on the tubing (see pic) vs TT who welded some of
the hangers on their clamps.
I don't know whether comparing two exhaust systems is representative
for all their exhaust systems, but AST's system seemed nicer.
Naturally, I could not compare how these two actually performed, compare
them to other exhaust systems out there, how loud they'd be,
how long they actually last and so on.
Gillet: German Made. Very High quality. Designed for European Pro-
Rally, this means it's next to indestructable. Very Good power
benefits (although not the best) with little change in sound at normal
or idle gas. Stainless steel construction INSIDE the mufflers. This is
where most systems suffer the worst corrosion/rust damage, unless you
live where roads are salted in the winter. Complete bolt on two muffler
system plus a baffle pipe between the cat and mid muffler. Nice subtle
round black end pipe (available in dual tip as well). Gillet is an OEM
in Germany, and I believe at some point for US made VW's as well. To
quote almost every source, "You can't go wrong with Gillet".
Cost: between $370 and $420 USD depending on your source. Note: Make
sure when purchasing to get the chain hangers, the Gillet is a HEAVY
system and will break normal exhaust hangers. These are made by VW
motorsport and are available at most tuning shops. They run from $9-15
per, (you'll need three). Also you'll need an adapter depending on
your engine type. Nice deep tone at idle. Nice deep GROWL on the gas.
[From ND]: Very high quality system from Germany with limited fitment as
they have no US offices and are imported by a few companies. No warranty
reconized as only covered by what the few importers will offer. High
priced and worth the money.
Sebring: German Made. VERY HIGH quality, slightly better power than
the Gillet (it is noticeable). Sebring builds for AMG in Germany, they
are also OEM for high end Mercedes and others as well. Solid Stainless
inside and out and costs it too (ouch!). I have no specifics on this
system, but if you've got money to burn, you can't go wrong here. Just
be prepared to spend a lot of $$$$$. You'll never need another system
again.
[From ND]: Very high priced. High quality. Limited fitment as designed for
European models. US offices from importer. Lifetime Warranty
ABT: available through JT automotive only. ABT is a very reputable
high perfomance tuner in germany, and has just started bringing stuff
into the states (I think). Their system is solid stainless inside and
out (big bucks) and will last a very long time. As far as perfomance
goes, one can only assume that it's worth the money, as I was unable
to get any numbers out of the guys at JT. However, they claim that
ABT builds the mufflers, although from all other sources ABT is only a
tuner and has their mufflers built by someone else. Unfortunately, no
one else has tested the system in the states except European Car on
the the ABT GTI. (Maybe someone can write to EC for some more detailed
info). My own opinion: Wait untill it's been in the market longer, and
try to find out more about it. Really Big $$$$ but they look really
slick, dual chrome tip (if that's what you want)
Eurosport: I know nothing about this system, apart from the fact that
it is not stainless and that some people have claimed it's loud.
New Dimension [added by Jan]: They are also in the process of fabricating
exhaust systems. I don't have sufficient feedback about these as yet.
Medium Performance ( simple systems )
==================
ANSA: I don't know too much about this system except that it's not
stainless, it's loud, and little or no power gains are there.
Leistritz: German Made, decent quality. Leistritz is OEM in germany. The
performance system that is sold in the US is simply a single turbo
muffler with a wide fat tail pipe. Non-biased shops have tested it and
claim that there is little performance to be had, just a slight
cosmetic change and a louder buzzy sound. Maybe it does work, but a
number of independent sources refute this. cost: approx $275 USD.
[From ND]: From Germany with US offices to back their 2 year warranty
direct fit for every model of VW. Leistritz is OEM on most German cars
and is one of the best mid priced systems. All systems have 2 year
warranty and come complete with all needed hardware.
Remus [From ND]- Very high priced and questionable fitment and hp gains. I only
have limited experience with their system. [From Jan: I am not sure they
should be categorized under "medium performers". Remus mufflers
are jewels compared to some of the other mufflers, at least on looks.
I don't have enough info on their performance, reliability, etc]
Hor: Unknown manufacturer but is nearly identical to Listritz, cost is
similar too.
Stock: VW OEM stock mufflers are pretty damn good at what they do, and
the lifetime warantee is not bad either. Some would argue that that is
all one needs (yeah right!). A good, but $$$$, bet.
Low End Performance ( Sub-standard systems )
===================
Your choice: Sears, Midas, Meineke... Caveat Emptor. They work, but
that's it. and if you're reading this list, you're probably not
interested in any of these options.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 948
From:
RE: Exhaust and where to get it.
Very nice review of mufflers but I thought REMUS was up there, I have heard nothing but good things about it.
Does anyone know about any shops in the Bay Area that have a really good deal as far as installing them.
Does anyone know about any shops in the Bay Area that have a really good deal as far as installing them.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 217
From:
RE: Exhaust and where to get it.
yes it is : Remus [From ND]- Very high priced and questionable fitment and hp gains. I only
have limited experience with their system. [From Jan: I am not sure they
should be categorized under "medium performers". Remus mufflers
are jewels compared to some of the other mufflers, at least on looks.
I don't have enough info on their performance, reliability, etc]
have limited experience with their system. [From Jan: I am not sure they
should be categorized under "medium performers". Remus mufflers
are jewels compared to some of the other mufflers, at least on looks.
I don't have enough info on their performance, reliability, etc]