Bleeding Brake fluid...and then some...
 

Finally getting around to working on my brakes and will be putting in new stainless steel lines.
I've looked over the Bentley service manual instructions for bleeding the brake fluid, but things are still a little unclear.

I bought this bleeder from ECS tuning but I'm not sure how or when to apply it...
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/image...7/600/2637.jpg

So far, as I understand it, I should..
1)Open the bleeder screws and catch the fluid
2)Open the fluid reservoir and pump the breaks with the engine running until the fluid in the reservoir lowers to the hydraulic clutch supply hose
3)....?
I don't really understand the process because the manual uses a different kind of bleeder. Also, it says that for manual transmissions you must also bleed the clutch slave cylinder- I have no idea how to do this. Essentially, I want to bleed the fluid, do the brake job and lines, and then refill with new fluid. Can anyone give me some guidance?? It would be much appreciated as I am trying to do the job today, on the only day with +temperature weather for a while.

P.S. Also, should I be applying loctite on any bolts after the job? and, what torque should I replace the rotor bolts to? (I know the wheels are at 90 ft-lbs, but the manual and DIY's don't mention the rotors)

YGPM - I was having forum issues and couldn't answer it here earlier:)

I am not familiar with your car but have been using the Motive for years and I really like it. I put the car on stands and take all the wheels off to gain easy access to all of the bleeder valves. Cover the area around the reservoir with towels to catch any spills. Next suck the reservoir out with a turkey baster or vacuum pump. Then I fill the reservoir about half full (above the outlet for the clutch master if you have one). Cover the area around the reservoir with towels to catch any spills. Pour the remaining fluid in the Motive bleeder (assuming you started out with a new litre of fluid). Screw the pump into the Motive bottle then screw the Motive adapter onto the master cylinder reservoir. You may have to roll the Motive around a little to get the hose kink free. Now pump the Motive up to about 15 lbs while keeping the bottle tilted toward the pick up tube in the bottom of the bleeder bottle. Now go around to each wheel starting with the furthest first (see the manual). I put a hose attached to a pop bottle on the nipple once I break it loose. Next, open the bleeder valve slowly until fluid is running out in a stream, keep it going until clean brake fluid is coming out with no bubles in it. At this point you should check that there is still pleny of fluid in the bleeder bottle. If not, read below about removing the Motive components without making a mess. If there is plenty of fluid, say more than half of what you began with, proceed to the next closest wheel and repeat. Each one will produce clean fluid sooner. Before you get to the last wheel, bleed the clutch slave first. At the wheel closest to the master cylinder (the last one) bleed it until clean fluid appears, then rotate the Motive bottle so the pick up tube is out of the brake fluid. This allows air in the bottle to purge the fluid in the line going to the reservoir, you can watch this happen. Keep this up just until you can see the level in the reservoir is at the Max mark, then unscrew the pump from the Motive bottle to relieve the pressure. If you skip this step you will have brake fluid all over place when you take the adapter off of the master cylinder reservoir.

I like to use the ATE Super Blue and Super Gold, alternating each time so you can tell when new fluid is coming out. (Paticularly for track cars that get frequent changes, you can't tell by how dirty it is.)

It is a little easier if you have an assistant who can monitor the bottle and pump it up if necessary. If you get a bleeder port that won't bleed by loosening the screw, just press on the brake pedal gently to get is started. This is rarely needed if the car has been maintained.

See the pic of the catch bottle. You don't need end of the tube to be in the used fluid as in the user friendly pedal pumping method.

Good luck,

Lou

Hey man,
Glad to find you here b/c I really couldn't find anything about this.This info is REALLY HELPFUL AND MUCH NEEDED. I have a few questions though, so please bare with me.

For starters, does the motive pump fluid into the system at a pressure? or does it suck/pump it out and into the motive bottle? (based on what u've said, I'm thinking that it pumps it in, but I just want to make sure). If it is used to fill the system, then what would I use to remove the fluid from the system when I am installing new brake lines and removing the calipers??
Second, if I don't have a vacuum pump (-which I don't-), how else can I get the brake fluid out of the reservoir?
Also, when you refer to the 'master cylinder reservoir', are you describing the same brake fluid reservoir (I think so...just wanna be sure)?
You said to bleed the clutch slave before bleeding the last wheel. How do I bleed the slave? just disconnect its hose from the reservoir?
I know some of these may sound obvious...in fact, they may ALL be.lol. But I just wanna be clear. All-in-all, thanks a million. And anyone else, if you have info, please chime in as well.

Yes the Motive provides the "motive force" or pressure to move the brake fluid through the lines etc. Some use a vacuum pump attached to the bleeder screws to suck the fluid out. This works but not nearly as well as the Motive, I have both and would never go back to sucking the clean fluid to the brakes. I could go on and on about the advantages but trust me, pushing the fluid out is better all the way around.

If you don't have a vacuum pump/reservoir you can buy a $.99 turkey baster at the local grocery store. Have a rag in your other hand to catch what will drip out. I bought my vacuum pump at a West Marine store for $55, it is marketed for changing the oil through the dipstip on boat motor without access to the drain plug. It works great on lawnmowers too. I am on my third one. Everytime I loan it to someone they buy me a new one and keep mine.

Yes the "master cylinder reservoir" is the same thing as the "brake fluid reservoir" I should have used the same terms.

There should be a bleeder screw on the clutch slave also. It may be a little smaller but similar in shape. Unfortunately I don't know your car well enough to say where it is or how hard it is to get at. I suggested doing it before the last wheel since you may be under the car to get at it. If so, it is more convenient to prepare for removing the Motive equipment by bleeding from the front wheel nearest the bleeder. The world probably won't come to an end if you don't even bother with the clutch since it does not see the heat that the brakes do. I flush my Porsche's brake fluid alot and only do the clutch every other time.

Lou

For starters, does the motive pump fluid into the system at a pressure? or does it suck/pump it out and into the motive bottle?

>>if it screws onto the top of the resevoir like it looks it does, then it pressurizes the fluid and forces it out thru the bleeder nipples on the brakes. that makes it so that you dont have to pump the brakes to do this.

Second, if I don't have a vacuum pump (-which I don't-), how else can I get the brake fluid out of the reservoir?

>> with a turkey baster. $0.98 at walmart, cant go wrong. i didnt feel like going to walmart so i took a small piece of plastic tubing and put it into a 2 liter bottle, put a shop vac on the top of the bottle, or even suck on it with your mouth (your girlfriend can give you pointers), and it will suck the fluid into the bottle. any vacuum source will work. doesnt have to be fancy. function over form.


Also, when you refer to the 'master cylinder reservoir', are you describing the same brake fluid reservoir (I think so...just wanna be sure)?

>>yes they use the same resevoir and the same fluid. start bleeding at the wheel furthest from the resevoir (normaly passenger rear) and work to the wheel closest to the resevoir, normaly front drivers side.


You said to bleed the clutch slave before bleeding the last wheel. How do I bleed the slave? just disconnect its hose from the reservoir?

>>theres a bleed nipple on the slave cylender like on the brakes, its the same procedure.

Great!!! Thanks a lot guys. This helps me a whole lot.

I don't trust that bleeder. Not even 10psi and it cracked the brake reservoir

^I definitely don't want that!! Maybe I'll use my current already cracked at the top reservoir when I fill up with bleeder, and then when it gets up through the master cylinder I'll install the new one and just top it up. Anything wrong with that?

Okay so I think I might do that...I'll use the motive to pressurize and bleed all lines and the cylinder and then right when the reservoir is about to fill up, i'll remove the old one (catch any spilling fluid in a towel/bowl), temporary plug the cylinder nipple and any other that connect to the reservoir, and then install the new reservoir before I top it up.

Only concern is that the old reservoir was cracked and a liquid plastic bond was used to deal it, and it's already peeling. Would this compromise the pressure?

Maybe I'll just take my chances, but I'll be furious if the motive ruins the reservoir b/c I just paid $100 for it.