The turbo manufacturers only post compressor maps as a ploy. General rule of thumb is for every 1 lb min of flow you will get 10chp. So if you look at a compressor map, say an old T3 60 trim which uses a compressor that has the EXACT same dimensions as GT2560R you will see that it will flow 35 lb min. HOWEVER the turbine will NEVER handle 35 lb min. In reality it will max out at 25 lb min with a good port job. So even though you can make 35 lb min flow the turbine will never handle it and pumping loss becomes a reality. The MAJOR hp limiting factor when it comes too turbos is the turbine. Not just its size but its design as well.

Something else that most fail to realize is that turbos actually run off of heat. Extreme heat. If a person was capable of controlling the temperature inside the turbine housing you would actually be able to get excellent spool and then cool it down and sustain a set psi. If you have ever seen people wrap tubular turbo manifold and run a large turbo they do this to keep the heat in the exhaust gasses which will dramatically increase spool. I remember on a SC62 setup we did for a customer once on B18C5 and from just wrapping his header we picked up 30lb ft and 18whp at 3800 RPM's as well as hitting max psi 400 RPM's sooner.

 

Thats really interesting, I didnt know it made that much of a difference, thanks for that info man.

 

The downfall to wrapping the header though is if you leak oil on it it will catch on fire. Ceramic coating can have the same result. Other benefits of the wrap is keeping the underhood temps down and improving the scavenging effect in the exhaust.

However it can have faults if your EGT's are not in the proper range but rarely this is a problem.

There are a lot of little things that you can do that do not cost much and they can improve spool and power dramatically. One of the big things I see a lot of people do is use oversized intercooler tubing.

 

Oversized piping will reduce overall boost... Derp.

 

Boost really has nothing to do with making power. It boils down to flow and more importantly how efficient the compressor is. The boost is dependent upon the amount of flow, how efficient the compressor is, and your inlet temps which falls back on compressor efficiency. Larger piping may drop psi levels but at the same time allows for uninterupted flow which keeps inlet temps down. Larger tubing also makes more volume for the compressor to fill and will hurt spool and slow down cylinder fill and hurt fuel atomization where a properly sized intercooler tubing setup will maximize spool, cylinder fill, and fuel atomazation.

 

Too large of piping though will slow down velocity

 

Why I stated slow down cylinder fill and hurt fuel atomization.

I know I have slowed on this project but I'm still going through 100% with it. I'm going to do 2 other mods first before stepping up and pushing for 250awhp. I'm upgrading my intercooler and going with a newer ignition coil setup. Debating how well the giac AWE pc16 tune will handle it and if I need larger injectors.

 

subscribed.

 

Which turbo are you going with? that will really determine the injectors you'd want to use. NAMotorsports has a "One-Click-Kit" for the Frankenturbo setup that includes injectors and a tune. I was goingto post a link but their site has lost a TON of products recently so I called. I'll let you know whats up.

^This OneClickKit is the route I'll be taking with our B6 A4.

 

I have looked at the frankenturbo setup which is nice but 240awhp looks like its max. The compressor it uses is the SAME as the CX7 turbo. The turbine is what dictates how much hp a setup will make. It is the main limiting factor and most do not understand this concept. What the compressor makes the turbine has got to be able to handle if you are making excess of it limits you will actually lose hp.

The CX7 uses the 42mm inducer and 60 mm exducer. The MS3 which is the turbo I plan on using runs the much larger 46mm inducer and 60mm exducer. This compressor combination is the most widely used in the turbo world. Here is the turbos I personally know that use this sized compressor:

K04 Mazdaspeed 3
TD04H 19T
TD05H small 16G
T3 60 trim
GT2560R
GT2860R (not the RS which is 47.2mm and 60mm)
IHI VF everything (the turbos used on the 2.5 liter for both the legacy and Sti setups)
Forced performance T28
Nissan T28 from the Bluebird 276 hp JDM setups (a bit rare)

and several others I am sure to be forgetting.The limiting factor in all these setups is not the compressor as they majority will make 35lb min +. All of these turbos will make 300awhp with the exception of the TD04H 19T and the T3 60 trim and maybe the K04. The T3 60 trim will actually make the 300awhp but you have to swap the stage 1 turbine for a stage 2 or maybe even a stage 1.5. The K04 I am trying to use should be able to get pretty close but its turbine is on the smallish side though it is the largest of the K04 turbines availible.

The frankenturbo turbine housing and it being limited to stock dimensions is going to limit its overall potential. The AR is just not adequate to be pushed higher into the rev range. They helped a lot by adding a better turbine housing but unchanging the turbine nozzle is what hurts its top end and honestly the stock turbo fattens the bottom end plenty. Its the top end that is lacking. The trade off with turbos is either lots of spool and dcent mid range and non existing top end, decent spool fat mid range and decent top end, or no spool with mild mid range and max hp on the top end. The franken turbo is the first of these 3 options. My proposed MS3 setups should be the second which still will make for a decent daily driver but with a little more added fun then a mildly modified stock setup.

I have dealt with turbos for a long time and I am quite confident that my proposed setup will make more overall hp and have a similar spool time as the Frankenturbo while costing significantly less. A new MS3 turbo can be had for less then $600.

I know this is contigent upon me proving this setup but give me the time and let me get everything else I deem necessary in place and I am sure the results will end up speaking for themself.

My current list of mods is :
Carbonio intake
GHL 2.5" cat back
AWE K04 turbo upgrade with PC16
Forged 007 DV
Snub mount


My list of current mods I am going to do with the turbo upgrade is:
Ignition upgrade (either TSI or 4 prong coil packs)
Big front mount intercooler with Samco tubing
3" test pipe and eliminating the stock Cat
Wideband that I already have
Upgraded turbo manifold
RS4 replica body kit

The car will be painted Triple black and I am going to look for a set of S4 seats and brakes and redo the all the bushings, ball joints, and tie rods. The car will then be finished until I get my second block built and I push for 400awhp.

Something else to note that the dyno posted on their site is using water meth injection to make 240awhp. I think the other dyno is more typical of what you will see at 220awhp. If you notice peak torque drops abroptly around 4500 RPM which is a good indicator that the turbine housing is being overun. If the franken turbo was capable of making the same torque at 5500 as it is at 4500 (240 lb ft) you would be making 251awhp on the setup that is making 221peak awhp. If you could make 220 lb ft at at 6000 RPM you would be making the same 251awhp. The franken turbo is around 190 lb ft at 6000 RPM. AT 6500 if you made 220 lb ft you would be making 272awhp.

My point is that giving up just a little bit of spool can really wake up the top dramatically which is what I am trying to achieve with the larger turbine housing and significantly larger compressor. I really believe that I can make the 270awhp without meth injection so I am pretty sure I will have to upgrade fuel injectors.


OH and I can safely run the Mazdaspeed 3 turbo at 22 psi.