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who would you vote for in 08
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,388
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RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: Toff_the_Toffee
but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president,
but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president,
Look at it this way, it is easier to get rich in the US if you start poor than in any other country. So someone like Perot, that didn't come from money at all can end up running for President. That is less likely to occur in other countries. And money alone won't get one elected either. Perot lost and Forbes will always lose. Kerry lost and his wife had money to surpass Bush.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
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RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: pturbo
So unlike all of the other countries of the world - where the penniless and powerless end up as top dog.
Look at it this way, it is easier to get rich in the US if you start poor than in any other country. So someone like Perot, that didn't come from money at all can end up running for President. That is less likely to occur in other countries. And money alone won't get one elected either. Perot lost and Forbes will always lose. Kerry lost and his wife had money to surpass Bush.
ORIGINAL: Toff_the_Toffee
but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president,
but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president,
Look at it this way, it is easier to get rich in the US if you start poor than in any other country. So someone like Perot, that didn't come from money at all can end up running for President. That is less likely to occur in other countries. And money alone won't get one elected either. Perot lost and Forbes will always lose. Kerry lost and his wife had money to surpass Bush.
"So someone like Perot, that didn't come from money at all can end up running for President. That is less likely to occur in other countries." You mean like Briatain, France, Italy, India, Australia, Norway, Denmark, Spain, Canada, etc...
Blah blah
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2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,050
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RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: Toff_the_Toffee
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Just google greatest democracy and see what comes up.... This is not an attack on the US by the way, but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president, and that the other poster is right, that there will not be a black, or female president for a long time.
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Just google greatest democracy and see what comes up.... This is not an attack on the US by the way, but an attack on the fact that in the US, only the obscenely rich can become president, and that the other poster is right, that there will not be a black, or female president for a long time.
Sen. Clinton is clearly the leader for the dems. that may change with dean running the dem party... but not likely..
And several polls show Dr.Rice as the most wanted front runner for the repulican party, so. we shall see. That is not to say either of them will make it.
personally Rice, Giuliani is my dream ticket.
I've looked into supporting a PAC for Rice here in my home state. There is more I have to look at. Most likely i will join one of the local rice for pres groups and move that group to a PAC.
I'm also picking up a book this weekend by Dick Morris. Hillary vs Condi the next great election.
Truely Condi is very well qualified for the job. More so than any other rep canidate. I know that is a personal conclusion but look at her qualifacations before you look at her Race or her gender.
And OH god don't let cheny run....
ug we would never get the white house for 30 years.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
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RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: Grouse
And OH god don't let cheny run....
ug we would never get the white house for 30 years.
And OH god don't let cheny run....
ug we would never get the white house for 30 years.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,388
From:
RE: who would you vote for in 08
Jeez Toff -
You need to put down your copy of today's Guardian fiction report and relax. When you talk about the US, you are just shy of foaming and screaming "Great Satan!". Which is odd, since we adore our fine British allies. Perhaps spend some more energy on trying to maintain the fiction that other countries always chose their leaders from the poor masses. [8D]
You need to put down your copy of today's Guardian fiction report and relax. When you talk about the US, you are just shy of foaming and screaming "Great Satan!". Which is odd, since we adore our fine British allies. Perhaps spend some more energy on trying to maintain the fiction that other countries always chose their leaders from the poor masses. [8D]
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
From:
RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: pturbo
Jeez Toff -
You need to put down your copy of today's Guardian fiction report and relax. When you talk about the US, you are just shy of foaming and screaming "Great Satan!". Which is odd, since we adore our fine British allies. Perhaps spend some more energy on trying to maintain the fiction that other countries always chose their leaders from the poor masses. [8D]
Jeez Toff -
You need to put down your copy of today's Guardian fiction report and relax. When you talk about the US, you are just shy of foaming and screaming "Great Satan!". Which is odd, since we adore our fine British allies. Perhaps spend some more energy on trying to maintain the fiction that other countries always chose their leaders from the poor masses. [8D]
. The point that the Presidents have been Very Rich white men, is a valid point and I agreed with it. I thought that was the point of a democracy? People can discuss things? Maybe you should not take the view that questioning things, or not taking the party line is unpatriotic. Anyway, I digress... I was asked, I provided... As such you tell me to put down my guardian paper... I love the US, just as I love my home country. Don't try to make out I am some American hating Johnny Foreigner...Oh, and I never said everyone else gets their leaders from the poor masses, just that the route to politics is open to people more than it is in the US. PM John Major was the son of a circus family, and John howard, leader of the opposition was froma jewish family that emigrated during the war. Not rich. Thats what i was saying.
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2nd Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,050
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RE: who would you vote for in 08
um is that whole thing directed at me....
I never eluded to all that.
I was commenting on one line only, I should have deleted the rest of your quote to clarify... here is the line i was replying to.
quote:
I think i made my point clearly that these two Ladies are currently the front runners, or Wanted front runners by their parties. It is not in my book so inconceivable to have either of these two as the front candidates in the presidential election. For their points both are very well qualified, and in their individual parties both are the front leaders.
Now Dean is running the dem party. He ousted McClellan. (sp) Who was Clinton point man for 12 years? Dean Does not like Sen. Clinton. He has said some nasty comments about her since he became the head of the DNC. How ever Sen. Clinton still is a power house, She draws votes like a super sucker does porta potties. She can win this dem. nomination with out too much trouble.
DR.Rice, is accomplished through out her life. Her foreign policy is bar none some of the singular best work in the last 1/2 century. Her business acumen and domestic policies are also highly regarded.
Here is what a dem has to say. And what ever else you thing about dick Morris, He knows his stuff.
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/expo...is/020905.html
To stop Hillary, draft Condi
As she tours the continent after her Senate confirmation, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is like a rock star — her every movement, her every meeting covered by an adoring media.
America’s first black female secretary of state is doing in public what she has always done in private — speaking frankly about America’s priorities and the realities of the post-Cold War world. As she jokes with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, loosening up his dogmatic anti-American policies, lectures Russia about freedom and warns Israel of tough decisions ahead, one thing is obvious: A star is being born.
Traveling without the entourage customary for secretaries of state, on time, mapping out in advance her first six months of travel, Rice is a new force in American politics.
As the Republican Party casts about for a viable presidential candidate in 2008 to keep Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) out of the White House, attention will inevitably focus on Rice, the woman who may stand between Clinton and the presidency.
Since Bush’s success in Iraq has laid the basis for negotiation in the Middle East, there is every prospect that Rice may preside over a diplomatic triumph in catalyzing the discussions between Sharon and Abbas. The firm American stand in Iraq will also make more likely success in Korea and Iran, all of which would add to the prestige of Rice.
The political fact is that a Rice candidacy would destroy the electoral chances of the Democratic Party by undermining its demographic base. John Kerry got 54 percent of his vote from three groups that, together, account for about a third of the American electorate: African-Americans, Hispanics and single white women. Rice would cut deeply into any Democrat’s margin among these three groups and would, most especially, deny Clinton the strong support she would otherwise receive from each of them.
Rice’s credentials for a candidacy are extensive and will grow throughout her tenure at the State Department. As former chancellor of Stanford University, she would have much in common with the pre-political careers of Woodrow Wilson and Dwight Eisenhower, presidents of Princeton and Columbia universities. Her service as national security adviser during a war and her current efforts as secretary of state demonstrate her ability to handle crises and to conduct herself with dignity and impact on the world stage.
As a social conservative and deeply religious person, she would face no bar in winning the votes of the Christian right, so crucial to winning the Republican nomination. Unlike former New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani (R) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) — both of whom could probably win in November — she would be very attractive to the pro-life, anti-gun-control, anti-affirmative-action base of the GOP.
America longs to put the period on the disgraceful chapter in our nation’s history that began when the first slave arrived at Jamestown, Va., more than 400 years ago. We also want to send a message to every girl, and every African-American or Hispanic baby, that there is no ceiling and that you can rise as far as your ability will carry you. The day Condi Rice is sworn in as president, regardless of the fate of her administration, that message and the punctuation of our history of racism will be obvious.
Of course, she isn’t running — nor is there any indication that she is harboring thoughts of a candidacy. But as her visibility increases, so will her viability. It may just be possible to draft Condi into the race. A real presidential draft movement hasn’t happened since 1952, when Republicans urged Eisenhower to get into the race. A draft-Condi movement seems almost antiquated in this era of ambitious and self-promoting candidates, but it may well fill a deep need in the electorate to vote for someone who is running in response to a genuine call of the people.
Condi Rice is a work in progress. Her rise has been impelled by her merits and achievements rather than any efforts on her part to curry favor in the media. She is still working and still progressing. But keep your eye on this political star. It is rising and may one day be ascendant.
Morris is the author of Rewriting History, a rebuttal of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) memoir, Living History.
I never eluded to all that.
I was commenting on one line only, I should have deleted the rest of your quote to clarify... here is the line i was replying to.
quote:
that there will not be a black, or female president for a long time.
I think i made my point clearly that these two Ladies are currently the front runners, or Wanted front runners by their parties. It is not in my book so inconceivable to have either of these two as the front candidates in the presidential election. For their points both are very well qualified, and in their individual parties both are the front leaders.
Now Dean is running the dem party. He ousted McClellan. (sp) Who was Clinton point man for 12 years? Dean Does not like Sen. Clinton. He has said some nasty comments about her since he became the head of the DNC. How ever Sen. Clinton still is a power house, She draws votes like a super sucker does porta potties. She can win this dem. nomination with out too much trouble.
DR.Rice, is accomplished through out her life. Her foreign policy is bar none some of the singular best work in the last 1/2 century. Her business acumen and domestic policies are also highly regarded.
Here is what a dem has to say. And what ever else you thing about dick Morris, He knows his stuff.
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/expo...is/020905.html
To stop Hillary, draft Condi
As she tours the continent after her Senate confirmation, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is like a rock star — her every movement, her every meeting covered by an adoring media.
America’s first black female secretary of state is doing in public what she has always done in private — speaking frankly about America’s priorities and the realities of the post-Cold War world. As she jokes with German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, loosening up his dogmatic anti-American policies, lectures Russia about freedom and warns Israel of tough decisions ahead, one thing is obvious: A star is being born.
Traveling without the entourage customary for secretaries of state, on time, mapping out in advance her first six months of travel, Rice is a new force in American politics.
As the Republican Party casts about for a viable presidential candidate in 2008 to keep Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) out of the White House, attention will inevitably focus on Rice, the woman who may stand between Clinton and the presidency.
Since Bush’s success in Iraq has laid the basis for negotiation in the Middle East, there is every prospect that Rice may preside over a diplomatic triumph in catalyzing the discussions between Sharon and Abbas. The firm American stand in Iraq will also make more likely success in Korea and Iran, all of which would add to the prestige of Rice.
The political fact is that a Rice candidacy would destroy the electoral chances of the Democratic Party by undermining its demographic base. John Kerry got 54 percent of his vote from three groups that, together, account for about a third of the American electorate: African-Americans, Hispanics and single white women. Rice would cut deeply into any Democrat’s margin among these three groups and would, most especially, deny Clinton the strong support she would otherwise receive from each of them.
Rice’s credentials for a candidacy are extensive and will grow throughout her tenure at the State Department. As former chancellor of Stanford University, she would have much in common with the pre-political careers of Woodrow Wilson and Dwight Eisenhower, presidents of Princeton and Columbia universities. Her service as national security adviser during a war and her current efforts as secretary of state demonstrate her ability to handle crises and to conduct herself with dignity and impact on the world stage.
As a social conservative and deeply religious person, she would face no bar in winning the votes of the Christian right, so crucial to winning the Republican nomination. Unlike former New York Mayor Rudy Guiliani (R) and Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) — both of whom could probably win in November — she would be very attractive to the pro-life, anti-gun-control, anti-affirmative-action base of the GOP.
America longs to put the period on the disgraceful chapter in our nation’s history that began when the first slave arrived at Jamestown, Va., more than 400 years ago. We also want to send a message to every girl, and every African-American or Hispanic baby, that there is no ceiling and that you can rise as far as your ability will carry you. The day Condi Rice is sworn in as president, regardless of the fate of her administration, that message and the punctuation of our history of racism will be obvious.
Of course, she isn’t running — nor is there any indication that she is harboring thoughts of a candidacy. But as her visibility increases, so will her viability. It may just be possible to draft Condi into the race. A real presidential draft movement hasn’t happened since 1952, when Republicans urged Eisenhower to get into the race. A draft-Condi movement seems almost antiquated in this era of ambitious and self-promoting candidates, but it may well fill a deep need in the electorate to vote for someone who is running in response to a genuine call of the people.
Condi Rice is a work in progress. Her rise has been impelled by her merits and achievements rather than any efforts on her part to curry favor in the media. She is still working and still progressing. But keep your eye on this political star. It is rising and may one day be ascendant.
Morris is the author of Rewriting History, a rebuttal of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-N.Y.) memoir, Living History.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,388
From:
RE: who would you vote for in 08
ORIGINAL: Toff_the_Toffee
Don't try to make out I am some American hating Johnny Foreigner...
Oh, and I never said everyone else gets their leaders from the poor masses, just that the route to politics is open to people more than it is in the US. PM John Major was the son of a circus family, and John howard, leader of the opposition was froma jewish family that emigrated during the war. Not rich. Thats what i was saying.
Don't try to make out I am some American hating Johnny Foreigner...
Oh, and I never said everyone else gets their leaders from the poor masses, just that the route to politics is open to people more than it is in the US. PM John Major was the son of a circus family, and John howard, leader of the opposition was froma jewish family that emigrated during the war. Not rich. Thats what i was saying.
You should brush up on your US Presidential history to uncover just how many have come from very humble beginings. You mention John Major. I mention Harry Truman. You mention John Howard. I mention Richard Nixon. The list is rather long and you will run out of names before I do, even if you are jumping from country to country and I am just using the US. Do you think that Andrew Jackson was born with a silver spoon in his mouth? How about Bill Clinton?
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
From:
RE: who would you vote for in 08
We can throw names about all we want, you have 42 to play with, and I have 51 to play with, and I'm sure that would take weeks to do. The fact remains that it does take millions to run for president. Do you think Kerry would have run if his wife never had millions? it costs a friggin fortune to run for president. Whetehr they were born with cash, or earned it through some fashion, it still takes huge sums to run. Other countries election runs tend to be far less low key, and far less showbiz, and require a hell of a lot less money, and asa result, you have a far broader spectrum of people who can run. Are you saying that the Bush family didn't use their financial clout to get their son into power? Why is it there are dynasties of 'power hungry' families? Anyway, thats a tangent. My response to you was based on your presumtion that it is easier to get rich in the US, and that it is easier to run for president because of this. I never agreed with you, and you don't agree with me, but thats life, and thats a democracy. Funny how I become a gardian reader becasue I never agreed with you?
Anyway, i'm off to bed, as its 2:45 AM here, and I'm friggin knackered...
Anyway, i'm off to bed, as its 2:45 AM here, and I'm friggin knackered...