It seems people get rid of their piggies when going stage3. Why? Is it ok to run stage3 with 'em?

 

plenty of people have them...some feel they are just as good as any other downpipe.

there are some big power cars running them on stage 3+ power, including evilempires nogaro avant, and i think marc still has them on his 10 second nogaro.

 

Cool! Next ? Looking @ Stage 3 kits, my K03s are fine but if they go I dont want my car sitting waiting for me to find parts to fix it. I want to save money by getting a kit but question the individual parts for each brand. Do I really need all the parts they list in the kit? Are the green #42 or OEM RS4 injectors too small for 100oct file, do I really need #60? I dont want to max out the equipment. Would it be cheaper to buy the parts separate? I already have APR 91oct chip but was told while @ 2bennett that they dont like working with parts from anything other than APR.<<<<I dont have the tools for a stage 3 project. Im obviously overwhelmed. Not looking for a hard core setup. Just want to replace the corresponding stock parts with the next step up without causing harm to any other part. Im trying to learn people, so give me a break.

 

apr is pretty expensive, buying separately can be more cost effective especially if you find some used stuff. and usually you do need all the parts listed or else they wouldn't be there . im not sure about injectors but ive heard a lot of people recommend the 60s so thats what id go with. and as far as piggies go most people upgrade because of the feeling that piggies restrict the engines breathing due to a smaller bore size i guess. i know that im going with asp dp's myself. if your running piggies im sure you know of vast, check them out for stage 3 theyre good people.

 

maybe just go stage 3- first to see if you like...keep stock fueling. avoid APR. they are a great company, but have stopped doing B5 research and development. You would be much further ahead with AWE, EPL, or ASP

 

I'd go with either VAST or EPL. Both do remote tunes as well. And both run larger injectors so your IDC won't be 120%

 

Right on! Im beginning to see what I need to do. Im sure I can do much of the install, except the turbos. The reason I went with APR is because they were only a couple hours drive away, and I learned alot from 2Bennett. Once I do get the stage 3 setup, how does one go about getting the stage 3 remapping done so that it works with each component, parts that can differ from everyone's own stage 3 setup? Keep in mind Im looking to save $ and not drive too far. Ti's why used piggies for $250 and being beside your car while its being reprogrammed is a wise decision. I just dont want to get ripped off by a mechanic or buy anything that will not be compatible with future upgrades. Alright....so, thanks for the thread. By ALL means, EVERYONE post up there Stage 3 parts list.

 

You really can't go wrong with APR. If they are close to you and you don't mind dishing over the money, get their setup and tweak it a bit.

Their race file is very solid.

My file was a custom SSP stage 3 file
85mm MAF
60# injectors
Walbro 255 FP
RS4 accordion hose

On pump I'd pull hard on an APR race stage 3.

 

APR does not give you a lot of bang for the buck. off-the-shelf APR 91oct tunes will run FATS times in the mid-4s. OTS AWE is closer to around 4.0 or under, and tweaked AWE files are faster still.
ASP, EPL will run high 3s on California 91oct, mid 3's on 93 or so.

I'd look for anyone unloading a used fueling kit (there are a number of those floating around). I know someone who's looking to unload a 5-program GIAC/AWE stage 3 ECU. PM me if you might be interested.

To answer your specific questions -- 42# injectors on a stock FPR and fuel pump are right at their limit in a K04'd car running 22-20psi. The type of file (pump vs. race) doesn't matter. In fact, race files actually run a leaner mixture and rarely bump boost up, so you'd be using less fuel. The gains are mostly from timing advance.

If you're going to homebrew, I'd stick with 42# injectors -- you won't be able to pull enough fuel to make 60#ers run right, even at 3-bar. Your trims will be maxed out and you'll run too rich still, unless you get a huge f'ing MAF housing.

I homebrewed on an 85mm MAF, RS4 accordion hose and 42# injectors with GIAC-X K03 code and was running FATS in the 3.7 range in 91 octane, FWIW.

Piggies are fine for stage 3. In addition to Jackson's nogaro avant, Anthony (AH10) has a custom-tuned ASP car that is running low 3's with 91 octane and water/meth injection -- and piggie pipes.

 

Sounds good! That would be great to upgrade the easy stuff, that does require pulling the motor, so I could continue to use my k03s. I most likely wont ever use the water/meth, at most just fill up on 100+oct. As I said, Im not looking to have the best.....just well enough to shut down those pesky american muscle and ricers who seem to always have to drive like an A-hole.(Even when my girlfriend is driving like an old lady) Im able to take 'em, but I dont like have to down shift to do it.