O drivers,

I currently have a 2004 A4 Avant, but I am moving to the US from Canada. Moving a car to the US is a pain, so I'm going to sell the A4 and buy something after I move.

Now, I want a manual transmission. I know, I know, super excellent fast shifting &c &c. I've driven all manner of paddle-shifting high-tech autoboxes, and I still hate them. I want a clutch -- and one that I control, not one that has a spare extra clutch just sitting around waiting to predict what I'm going to do next.

Which brings me to the hard problem. Current-generation A4's won't sell you a manual at all, and on the A3 one can only get a manual transmission with the gasoline engine and FWD. On the A4, I can really feel the difference the quattro makes, despite the front weight bias of the car. The A3 is quite a different car, however, with the transverse engine and everything, so it makes me think that I might not miss the quattro as much.

If anyone has experience with both drivetrains and wants to comment, I'd be most appreciative.

(While I'm at it: given that the A3 mechanicals are not far distant from the VW Golf & Jetta, does anyone have any idea why you can't get an A3 with the TDI engine and a manual transmission? It's making me think that maybe I oughta look at the Golf/Jetta wagon instead.)

 

I have a 2012 A3 and went with FWD so I could get the excellent 6 speed manual. A year later and I don't regret it. The transmission is snick-snick from gear-to-gear and the clutch very progressive. Yeah I miss the quattro all wheel drive now and then but I would have missed the manual all the time. The other plus of the FWD is it gets better gas mileage and is a little lighter. It is tough to find one though.

 

I have the quattro, and on some instances the AWD unit has been disabled without any warning. When it got disabled, I noticed that the car's tires slip excessively during launch (which gets dangerous if trying to make a left turn on an intersection when all one get is tire spins). I also noticed on turns, either slow ones coming out of a corner or fast ones like on highway exit loops, I would get excessive screeching on the inner tires and not able to accelerate around or out of the turn. With quatttro, I would go faster and faster until I start sliding sideways.

Lots of paddle shifter transmissions are nothing more than slushbox with manual shifting capability. The DSG are stick shift transmissions with 2 sets of clutches underneath. When you downshift, it does all the heel and toe/rev matching for you. Now you just have to concentrate on what's important in shifting, which is being in the proper gear, downshifting and coming out of a corner in the proper gear, etc.

 

LWNY,

I think a couple factors may be at work here. First of all if you are used to driving a quattro equipped Audi then you will most likely drive the same way when it is not quattro equipped. So the slip you are experiencing is occuring quite often because you are "expecting" the higher quattro limits. Not having quattro I know not to accelerate hard with the wheels turned from a stop and how the car will behave (more understeer) when coming off/on exits and entrances. Furthermore, I'm sure the FWD tuning of your car is not like that of my FWD only car since your car is normally quattro and the FWD I would bet is more of a limp mode home.

So yes, quattro performs better than FWD, no argument there. Just as a Cayman handles better than any A3.

 

The FWD mode is not a limp home mode since all other performance aspect are the same..power delivery are the same, transmission performance is the same. I've had the car in FWD mode for some time and have learned how to drive it..which is basically don't floor it in low gear unless I want to hear some peeling out, and have to be alot more delicate with the throttle in corners. In snow/rain...basically just drive as if I am going from point A to point B instead of going to have some fun slipping and sliding.

 

Thanks for reminding me of how much I'm missing! I hope the next A3 on the MBQ platform is available with manual AND quattro.

 

Thanks. This is interesting. I didn't even know you could disable the AWD unit! (I don't think you can on my A4, and ISTR that this is because the manuals actually use a more primitive version of Audi's AWD technology. This may be why they no longer offer it in such a configuration.)

Yeah, I know what the difference is, and I've tried the DSG. But there are really three things at work here.

First, I just enjoy the clutch work. But I might get over that.

Second, the much more complicated clutch system sounds to me like a good way to get a steep repair bill in the future, and mechanics I have talked to have indeed told me that when you need to work on them, they're quite a bit more expensive (more time and many more parts). I tend to drive my cars until they up and die, so long-term maintenance costs are important to me.

Finally, I hate shifting with paddles or with the dorky toggle thing on the floor. I just find the interface less comfortable. This probably just shows that I'm getting old and stodgy.

In any case, you confirmed what I was worried about, and I appreciate it. I have a feeling that Subaru is going to get my money instead of Audi. Or maybe I can find a nice old A4 Avant to replace the one I'm leaving behind.

Thanks very much!

 

It cannot be disabled, but gets disabled by a malfunction. Sometimes, things light up on the dashboard, other time, it is only known by VAG-COM. The A4's AWD cannot be disabled because it is mechanical and 'permanent'. The A3's is 'on-demand' and computer controlled.


I know how it is with the stick shift. Getting a good shift is part of the satisfaction. But those are all elementary with DSG and you put your focus on something else like changing gears much more just to stay in the powerband. I know when driving in complicated and twisting road, one tend to stay in one gear with stick shift (who has time to take one hand of the steering wheel, let alone let the gas/clutch off to shift, upsetting the car's balance), so when the road gets a bit more twisty or slower, the engine usually leaves its powerband. With DSG, all one is focused on is the engine's sound to make sure it is screaming, and with your hand at the 3 and 9 oclock position, shift accordingly.

Plus, one thing that could be done with DSG is upshift in the middle of a turn if one is going to fast in the middle of a turn and there is a need to back off the torque to the wheels. An upshift will bring the engine to a part where it has less torque and change the transmission's gear ratio, reeling you back in from the edge of disaster. This is never recommended with stick shift, or even automated single clutch like BMW's SMG, Audi's R-tronic or Lambo or LF-A's dino-transmission since it upsets the balance and would make things worse (that's why they started having flappy paddles fixed to the steering column so you can't reach it when you are in the middle of a turn if your hands are in the usualy 3 and 9 oclock position).

As for repair cost, these are wet multi-plate clutches that has alot less wear and tear than a stick shift's dry clutch plates. Some early ones had reliability issues due to temp sensor, but the main complaint from them is that they are clunky, or not smooth. Of course, given that these were sold as slushbox replacements, the slushbox drivers are not use to the physical engagement of gears and clutches.

 

I have the 3.2 Quattro with DSG. While driving it in manual mode, it is like a shifter kart, especially if you left foot brake. The DSG does make shifting less of a chore, but it also takes away from the visceral feel of a perfectly executed heel and toe downshift. You miss the connection with the character of the car.

As for FWD vs AWD yes the two will be different in how the car behaves in corners. FWD tends towards trailing throttle oversteer entering and power understeer exiting. While AWD tends to understeer entering, quattro lets you apply power earlier and pull you through the apex.