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Simple or not?

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Old Jun 6, 2006 | 04:23 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

GIAC has more experience and has been doing this longer than APR I think.
 
Old Jun 6, 2006 | 05:19 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Simple or not?


ORIGINAL: evoic

All of that info is great and it's appreciated......only one problem:

I have an 06' A4 with Quattro and 2.0T engine. (B7)

Different animal and I still can't find info on GIAC's upgrade performance for my model. []

Never mind - found the info:

The latest generation performance software from GIAC is the new standard. X-chip now available

Silky smooth drivability, with gobs of power everywhere. This software upgrade really gives the heavy A4 sedan a nice kick in the pants with a dyno verified 31 crank horsepower and 28 crank torque increase with S-chip and 41 crank horsepower and 75 crank torque increase with X-chip, as measured on our AWD Mustang chassis dyno, on 93 octane pump fuel. That's an incredible 250hp and ~260tq at the crank on S-chip and 260hp and 305tq at the crank on the X-chip!

Single flash programs only available at this time, with switching capability between race fuel, stock, valet, and security kill programs soon to be released.
It seems that the bigger boost for my year / model will come from APR.
The GIAC chip offers 31hp/28ftlb's with 93+, but I'll only be using 91+, so I expect the results to be a bit lower. Maybe somewhere in the 220hp / 220ftlbs area?

With the APR chip, I'll be getting 232hp/273lb-ft total at 91+ octane fuel. If I'm understanding this correctly - it offers similar hp gains and considerably more torque. (66ftlb's above stock)
All of this is IN ADDITION to the fact that APR lets you hide the mod from the dealership.

Did I miss something or does APR have a leg up on GIAC for the B7 models?
For now APR does have the leg up on GIAC. But, GIAC is also a trusted and known company that provides a quality product.
APR seems to have gotten the jump, but also notice that APR is pricey. It's $600 just for the basic program. You have to add about $150 more just to be able to switch to one other program such as stock. I think I've seen the price drop to $500 for the base program, but that's still about $650 to have software that will switch to non detect mode, and it's $750 not on sale. It seems to be a very reliable product with real world dyno proving it's real, but it costs.

Look into REVO as well. They seem to be right there with APR in terms of power output and flexibility, but they cost less. I believe the REVO base program is $399 (?) I was sent an email saying that they now do offer an optional "key" to switch back to stock. The "key" looks like the A4 key fob with no metal key. It connects to the diag port (access in dash port) and you press a button, it loads the stock program and you're off. Then, once your service visit is done you insert the "key" and load your power program and you're off.
The APR software uses the cruise control buttons to select between the programs, so it's more convenient in that you don't have to have the "key" to change things.
I like the REVO idea better though. I like being able to load the program I want and only load that program. The APR software seems to load all the programs you want and you simply then select which one you want to use. But, that implies that the power software is in there somewhere, and that scares me cause it means they might be able to find it if they looked for it. However, I'm not sure if that's ture or not.
My sense is that the REVO "key" stores the software and you just load the program you want, thus there is only one program at a time vs. multiple programs sitting in the ECU/ECM.

We get 93 octane in the Chicago area regularly so no need for 91 or 93 programs.
As far as traveling to places with lower octane fuel, modern cars have "knock sensors" so even if you use a lower octane fuel while traveling the engine is till safe as the computer will control fuel and boost to control any detonation/knock issues if they arise.

Let us know which one you're going with. If you can go for the free tryouts of both the REVO and APR to see if there is a difference.
I'm also curious about MPG and what the differences between all the various software there may be, if any.
Post if you find that too.
Happy hunting and modding.
 
Old Jun 6, 2006 | 05:44 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

Thank you 2.0TS ! !

AWESOME post. I will look into that and will be sure to report back here with any info that I find.
I'm probably more interested in REVO's way of doing things as well, but I intend to study all 3 brands as much as possible before I make a choice. However things turn out - I'll put the info here so that hopefully it helps the next person that comes along......


***Edit
After some quick research, it looks like REVO pricing is $499 for the 2.0T engine and an additional $199 for the Serial port switch. Ouchie.
 
Old Jun 6, 2006 | 11:24 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

I talked to one of the Tech guys at a local Euro-tuner shop and here's what I learned.....

REVO's upgrade offers more lower-end torque and has a bit more grunt when you hit the gas. Good for racing, bad for traffic.
What happens is, when you are stuck at low-speeds (rush hour) it will constantly spool up and upshift, then immediately spool down and drop you back into the lower gear if you have a tiptronic. This is due to the shift-points that Audi has on the tiptronic transmission.
He said it can be quite an adventurous ride and not usually the fun kind.

As for the APR upgrade, the tech advised that it has a much smoother and linear acceleration and gives approximately the same increase in HP and Torque as the REVO, GIAC, and NeuSpeed upgrades. It is also better suited to work with the Tiptronic in the 2.0T.

As for pricing:

APR Upgrade - $599 + Mode Shifter - $149 + Security Feature - $59 = $807

REVO Upgrade - $499 + Mode Shifter - $199 = $698

These prices are without tax. The shop I spoke with said that they waive the 8.25% CA sales tax if you pay cash.
Either option can be installed in around 30 minutes.
 
Old Jun 7, 2006 | 03:13 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: Simple or not?


ORIGINAL: evoic

I talked to one of the Tech guys at a local Euro-tuner shop and here's what I learned.....

REVO's upgrade offers more lower-end torque and has a bit more grunt when you hit the gas. Good for racing, bad for traffic.
What happens is, when you are stuck at low-speeds (rush hour) it will constantly spool up and upshift, then immediately spool down and drop you back into the lower gear if you have a tiptronic. This is due to the shift-points that Audi has on the tiptronic transmission.
He said it can be quite an adventurous ride and not usually the fun kind.

As for the APR upgrade, the tech advised that it has a much smoother and linear acceleration and gives approximately the same increase in HP and Torque as the REVO, GIAC, and NeuSpeed upgrades. It is also better suited to work with the Tiptronic in the 2.0T.

As for pricing:

APR Upgrade - $599 + Mode Shifter - $149 + Security Feature - $59 = $807

REVO Upgrade - $499 + Mode Shifter - $199 = $698

These prices are without tax. The shop I spoke with said that they waive the 8.25% CA sales tax if you pay cash.
Either option can be installed in around 30 minutes.
Yup, those prices are what I'm encountering.
When there were actual "chips", it was a physical mod. However, it was also less expensive as you could just swap out the chip or have a second ECU to plug in. Oddly, on APR's website it say that the upgraded software is "not detectable" and it doesn't say you have to have or pay anything more than the $599.
I'm going to email the companies directly and ask if that is true, then why the added "options". I don't need multiple programs. I just want one and I would like the dealer to not be able to detect it.

That's interesting about the auto trans and power increase.
I've read a lot of people love the REVO as they find it's very linear and smooth as well. But, it seems more people with manuals get the upgrade.
I've seen some dyno's and it looks to me that both the REVO and APR have big lower rpm spikes and smooth midrange, with not a lot on top.
So, I'm surprised at the comments about shifting.
In traffic you're not going to be giving much throttle to get the turbo to spool much anyway.
I would take advantage of APR's and REVO's 5 hour test, and give both a try. That way you can see for yourself what you like.

Let us know what you decide.
 
Old Jun 8, 2006 | 06:35 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

I'm definitely leaning towards APR, but I'm curious to see what type of response you get from them regarding the additional money for having the option to switch back and forth.
 
Old Jun 8, 2006 | 03:42 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

Here's the info. I got.

APR guy says I need the software ($599) + dual programs, for stock ($149) + security lockout, to keep them from accessing ($59)
Total for APR to get software, stock program and non detection= $807

REVO guy says I need the software ($499) + the SPS switch module ($199) to switch programs, no detection.
Total for REVO software and SPS program switcher= $698

Both will have addtional sales tax.

The dealers are not too far from me and less than an hour between each other. I would want test drives before I buy.
 
Old Jun 8, 2006 | 03:48 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

dude, seriously, they are all essentially the same. Pick which ever tuner can give you the appropriate future upgrade path and go with it.
 
Old Jun 8, 2006 | 03:59 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Simple or not?

I have no future upgrade path, this is all I will be adding to the car, and the information that I got back is that the two chips are not essentially the same......
See post #34 above regarding low-end torque and turbo-spooling.

All of the majors (GIAC / APR/ NEUSPEED / REVO / UPSOLUTE) offer similar numbers on paper.
Numbers on paper are one thing, real-world performance is what we are trying to determine.
Torque, acceleration, noise, turbo lag, MPG, reliability, etc.
 
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