Cold start misfire P0304.
#1
08-30-2009, 11:05 AM
Cold start misfire P0304.
Well now that the kids are back in school I'm back on it.
Recap;
I have a cold start misfire on one cylinder,no 4. It misfires only after sitting for a while or overnight. It will misfire about 40 times then go away and run fine all day and restart fine as well, until sitting overnight. (it does not misfire all day long) however if your engine misfires all day,pull the valve cover and mic the cam lobes and inspect your lifters for wear or collapse.
I have tested and swapped my brand new coils, and the ECM signal.
I have cleaned and volume tested my injectors and the signal.
I checked my cam lobes and lifter buckets all working and in spec.
I have disconnected the knock sensors and still get a misfire from the crank speed sensor. I know it's real I can feel it bumble.
I have 205 psi in that cylinder in the morning all others are 187 psi.
I have tried seafoam and water through the intake to clean any carbon but it changed nothing.
So I shoved a bottle brush in the cylinder after sitting overnight and found it had a slight amount of oil in it. ( a little oil will seal the rings even more and create higher compression and that can cause detonation).If anyone has ever had this problem with their lawn mower and your arm was nearly ripped out of the socket you might understand that concept. Since that cylinder has higher compression I know the valves are sealing. I think it's the valve seals leaking overnight. I have ordered 15 new seals for that head (3.0 V6 )and also new lifters for cylinder 4 and a head gasket, etc,etc... I'll be pulling the head within two weeks. I'm going to replace all that crap and give it a good cleaning. Unfortunately I won't have the time to do both heads in one weekend so I'll just have to wait for the others to fail. However it is possible to do the lifters and valve seals with the head on. I'm just not absolutely sure how the oil is getting in there so I'm pulling the head off.
Wish me luck. I'll do my best to document it.
Recap;
I have a cold start misfire on one cylinder,no 4. It misfires only after sitting for a while or overnight. It will misfire about 40 times then go away and run fine all day and restart fine as well, until sitting overnight. (it does not misfire all day long) however if your engine misfires all day,pull the valve cover and mic the cam lobes and inspect your lifters for wear or collapse.
I have tested and swapped my brand new coils, and the ECM signal.
I have cleaned and volume tested my injectors and the signal.
I checked my cam lobes and lifter buckets all working and in spec.
I have disconnected the knock sensors and still get a misfire from the crank speed sensor. I know it's real I can feel it bumble.
I have 205 psi in that cylinder in the morning all others are 187 psi.
I have tried seafoam and water through the intake to clean any carbon but it changed nothing.
So I shoved a bottle brush in the cylinder after sitting overnight and found it had a slight amount of oil in it. ( a little oil will seal the rings even more and create higher compression and that can cause detonation).If anyone has ever had this problem with their lawn mower and your arm was nearly ripped out of the socket you might understand that concept. Since that cylinder has higher compression I know the valves are sealing. I think it's the valve seals leaking overnight. I have ordered 15 new seals for that head (3.0 V6 )and also new lifters for cylinder 4 and a head gasket, etc,etc... I'll be pulling the head within two weeks. I'm going to replace all that crap and give it a good cleaning. Unfortunately I won't have the time to do both heads in one weekend so I'll just have to wait for the others to fail. However it is possible to do the lifters and valve seals with the head on. I'm just not absolutely sure how the oil is getting in there so I'm pulling the head off.
Wish me luck. I'll do my best to document it.
#3
08-31-2009, 01:30 PM
Heres my parts list for Both heads-2002 3.0L W/O chain adjusters.
2) Exhaust gasket -manifold to Cat, $15.50
2) Exhaust manifold gasket, $13.50
2) Intake manifold gaskets, $43.50
8) Head Bolts, $127.50
2) Head Gasket, $105.50 WOW
2) Water pipe O-Ring, $13.00 WOW
2) Cam Follower/lifter Exhaust, $37.50
3) cam follower/Lifter Intake, $62.25
4) EGR/Kombi valve gaskets-OEM # 06C131120A, $19.00
2) EGR/Kombi valve gasket-OEM # 078131120K, $8.00
30) Valve Stem Seals,15per head - $52.50
2) Valve cover gaskets- $35.00
2) Cam sensor gaskets-$21.94 WOW
2) Variable timing adj gaskets-$21.94
4) Valve keepers,in case I loose one-$7.00
1) Water temp sensor, easier now than later-$14.75
4) Cam pulley oil seals,06C103085-from Audi $20.00
3) Bottles G12 plus coolant
Shop supplies
1) High Temp RTV silicone
1) Valve grinding compound
1) Assembly lube
1) Liquid wrench
Special Audi tools required;
Timing kit, clamps etc.
3452 Polydrive driver-head bolts.
2) Exhaust gasket -manifold to Cat, $15.50
2) Exhaust manifold gasket, $13.50
2) Intake manifold gaskets, $43.50
8) Head Bolts, $127.50
2) Head Gasket, $105.50 WOW
2) Water pipe O-Ring, $13.00 WOW
2) Cam Follower/lifter Exhaust, $37.50
3) cam follower/Lifter Intake, $62.25
4) EGR/Kombi valve gaskets-OEM # 06C131120A, $19.00
2) EGR/Kombi valve gasket-OEM # 078131120K, $8.00
30) Valve Stem Seals,15per head - $52.50
2) Valve cover gaskets- $35.00
2) Cam sensor gaskets-$21.94 WOW
2) Variable timing adj gaskets-$21.94
4) Valve keepers,in case I loose one-$7.00
1) Water temp sensor, easier now than later-$14.75
4) Cam pulley oil seals,06C103085-from Audi $20.00
3) Bottles G12 plus coolant
Shop supplies
1) High Temp RTV silicone
1) Valve grinding compound
1) Assembly lube
1) Liquid wrench
Special Audi tools required;
Timing kit, clamps etc.
3452 Polydrive driver-head bolts.
Head gasket -----$ 42.99
Intake mani gasket ---$ 17.54
Exhaust mani gasket ----$ 3.95
Valve Cover gasket ----$ 15.29
Cam sensor gasket ---- $ 2.66 (ElringKlinger)
etc, etc...
WOW again. Please, don't tell me you get them from Blau...
#4
08-31-2009, 09:42 PM
Sure I looked them up. Right AFTER I placed my order.
The waterpipe o-ring isn't 13.00 it's 3.00 for two. I messed up. The sensor gaskets I ordered OEM because everyones pictures were not of the actual part and I don't have cam chains so the gaskets are larger. I think they are reusable but at 117K I figured they've done their living.
I do like their prices at autohaus az I noticed they were a few bucks cheaper on everything. Next time I'm ordering through them. How is their shipping?
The waterpipe o-ring isn't 13.00 it's 3.00 for two. I messed up. The sensor gaskets I ordered OEM because everyones pictures were not of the actual part and I don't have cam chains so the gaskets are larger. I think they are reusable but at 117K I figured they've done their living.
I do like their prices at autohaus az I noticed they were a few bucks cheaper on everything. Next time I'm ordering through them. How is their shipping?
#6
08-31-2009, 09:58 PM
You know I am usually so **** about shopping things. I just looked up some of the parts and they have entire gasket sets for the seal job I could have saved about $100 if I went with them.
Funny I forgot about them and this morning I remembered you had ordered through them. That's when I was checking. Well I guess I'm just going to have to deny My wife, kids and the dog food for a week to make up for it. Actually it probably only be like two days the kids eat like animals
Funny I forgot about them and this morning I remembered you had ordered through them. That's when I was checking. Well I guess I'm just going to have to deny My wife, kids and the dog food for a week to make up for it. Actually it probably only be like two days the kids eat like animals
#8
08-31-2009, 10:40 PM
Jack, for some people $ 100 doesn't mean that much.
However, for me it does. It equates with 3-4 days worth of groceries.
I suppose I'm **** too, about saving money. If I can find the same product (same brand) cheaper at a different place, then I'm all for it.
I adjusted the old proverb "time is money" to my liking: spending time to compare prices actually saves me money.
Probably I don't always find the lowest prices around when buying something, but at least I try to check at least a handfull of places before making my decision.
And god forbid, I neither suggest you didn't shop around, nor that you don't give a damn about $ 100 bucks.
The prices just looked a little high to me, especially seeing the head gasket one. I knew AA has better prices than that.
Oh well... there's always a "next time" for everything.
Please keep us posted as you start/do the work.
However, for me it does. It equates with 3-4 days worth of groceries.
I suppose I'm **** too, about saving money. If I can find the same product (same brand) cheaper at a different place, then I'm all for it.
I adjusted the old proverb "time is money" to my liking: spending time to compare prices actually saves me money.
Probably I don't always find the lowest prices around when buying something, but at least I try to check at least a handfull of places before making my decision.
And god forbid, I neither suggest you didn't shop around, nor that you don't give a damn about $ 100 bucks.
The prices just looked a little high to me, especially seeing the head gasket one. I knew AA has better prices than that.
Oh well... there's always a "next time" for everything.
Please keep us posted as you start/do the work.
#9
08-31-2009, 10:47 PM
I like finding 3 different places that have everything I need, then fill the cart from all three places.. the overall lowest wins.
#10
08-31-2009, 11:27 PM
Ya I rushed it, I was Hot and tired. Thanks for looking out for me though. Right now $100 is hard to come by. I'm trying not to think about it. I'll have to hurt myself like the Elf guy in Harry Potter.
I effed up.
I effed up.