Lexus SC400 Down, Audi A6 Up
Thanks for hanging in there with me guys.
OGBULLYLOCDAWG: Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if they showed an actual pic for the proper chain placement on both sides.
hxgaser: No, I didn't change the TB tensioner. I will next time I'm there though. Prior owner changed TB, & water pump, but not tensioner pulley or tensioner.
Since my codes flag camshaft position sensor G40 (bank 1) & misfires on cylinders 1-2-3, then something must be wrong on bank 1 side. I come up with 3 possibilities:
On page 3, post 25 I show a pic of bank 1 cams with marking showing how chain is on. View is looking forward. My counting method shows 15 rollers between notches. Bentley mentions that notch on exhaust cam is offset slightly toward inside (toward intake cam or chain span). They seem to also count the roller outside the offset on the exhaust cam. So in my pic, roller 16 (or 1, depending if you count R-L vs L-R) would be the one adjacent to 15, but on other side of the mark. So, based on this, I thought I had 16 roller on bank 1.
Attached pics show Bentley info. They count #1 on exhaust cam...sorry for the confusion with my pics. If you guys know I'm wrong on my total counting, please explain. I have a new cam position sensor coming to check that out, otherwise I suspect I'll be disassembling again to check TB timing & recheck (maybe tweak) bank 1 cam chain count.
FYI, I've checked resistance & voltage for camchain solenoids, speed sensor, & got to readup on checking cam position sensors again. So far, no smoking gun.
On a possibly related subject, has anyone seen this type of discrepancy on engine RPM signal from VAG-COM, vs instrumentation tach?
VAGCOM test Output
Thursday,22,December,2011,16:58:56:31354
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.1
Data version: 20111209
Address 01: Engine (4B0 907 551 K)
16:58:53 Group 094: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Intake)
2240 /min Engine Speed (G28)
Cam Ctrl. ON Adjustment Status
System Not OK Result Bank 1
System Not OK Result Bank 2
My comment: Instrumentation tach showed ~3100 rpm . Inconsistent rpm values from vag-com (engine speed G28) vs instrumentation tach.
If I haven't put you to sleep yet, then another update is that I removed the Bosch 5.3 ABS controller & sliced the top off, & yes I have a loose connection on one of the aluminum wires, as described on other sites. Don't trust myself soldering on this "dainty" electronics, but I have conductive silver epoxy ordered to use the alternate (no heat) approach.
Later.
OGBULLYLOCDAWG: Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if they showed an actual pic for the proper chain placement on both sides.
hxgaser: No, I didn't change the TB tensioner. I will next time I'm there though. Prior owner changed TB, & water pump, but not tensioner pulley or tensioner.
Since my codes flag camshaft position sensor G40 (bank 1) & misfires on cylinders 1-2-3, then something must be wrong on bank 1 side. I come up with 3 possibilities:
- cam chain on wrong # of rollers
- cam position sensor(G40) is bad
- TB slipped a notch on bank 1 sprocket
On page 3, post 25 I show a pic of bank 1 cams with marking showing how chain is on. View is looking forward. My counting method shows 15 rollers between notches. Bentley mentions that notch on exhaust cam is offset slightly toward inside (toward intake cam or chain span). They seem to also count the roller outside the offset on the exhaust cam. So in my pic, roller 16 (or 1, depending if you count R-L vs L-R) would be the one adjacent to 15, but on other side of the mark. So, based on this, I thought I had 16 roller on bank 1.
Attached pics show Bentley info. They count #1 on exhaust cam...sorry for the confusion with my pics. If you guys know I'm wrong on my total counting, please explain. I have a new cam position sensor coming to check that out, otherwise I suspect I'll be disassembling again to check TB timing & recheck (maybe tweak) bank 1 cam chain count.
FYI, I've checked resistance & voltage for camchain solenoids, speed sensor, & got to readup on checking cam position sensors again. So far, no smoking gun.
On a possibly related subject, has anyone seen this type of discrepancy on engine RPM signal from VAG-COM, vs instrumentation tach?
VAGCOM test Output
Thursday,22,December,2011,16:58:56:31354
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.1
Data version: 20111209
Address 01: Engine (4B0 907 551 K)
16:58:53 Group 094: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Intake)
2240 /min Engine Speed (G28)
Cam Ctrl. ON Adjustment Status
System Not OK Result Bank 1
System Not OK Result Bank 2
My comment: Instrumentation tach showed ~3100 rpm . Inconsistent rpm values from vag-com (engine speed G28) vs instrumentation tach.
If I haven't put you to sleep yet, then another update is that I removed the Bosch 5.3 ABS controller & sliced the top off, & yes I have a loose connection on one of the aluminum wires, as described on other sites. Don't trust myself soldering on this "dainty" electronics, but I have conductive silver epoxy ordered to use the alternate (no heat) approach.
Later.
Assuming the cam chain's on OK, I'll toss some other ideas by anyone, but I suspect these are less likely the cause.
Cam chain stretch. I know chains (in general) can stretch slightly with extended usage, but how likely is this. Is cam chain stretch a common issue? Car has ~130K miles on it. Haven't seen much discussion on this topic, so I suspect it's unlikely...or at least, not common.
Cam Chain Tensioner Guide Wear. When I had tensioners out before I noticed that there was minor (IMO) wear indications from the chain on the guides.
FYI, waiting on the new cam position sensor to check that part before pulling valve covers & front end to recheck timing.
Cam chain stretch. I know chains (in general) can stretch slightly with extended usage, but how likely is this. Is cam chain stretch a common issue? Car has ~130K miles on it. Haven't seen much discussion on this topic, so I suspect it's unlikely...or at least, not common.
Cam Chain Tensioner Guide Wear. When I had tensioners out before I noticed that there was minor (IMO) wear indications from the chain on the guides.
FYI, waiting on the new cam position sensor to check that part before pulling valve covers & front end to recheck timing.
I haven't heard of the chain stretching... FYI, I was dealing with the user named, KIMI with the same issue about a few years ago. It ended up being the wrong tooth count on the cam chain tensioner. You may want to contact him about to see exactly what happened.
My mechanic said if the timing jumped, the engine should shaking, rough idle. My one was not this case and he changed 2x CPS on driver side (mine has 4 CPS, 2 on ea side) and good to go. I got 8 codes:
17548 / 17522 / 17755 / 16684 / 16688 / 16690 / 16689 / 17930
and 1 day b4 CEL steadily ON, I got a couple CEL flashing, ea time about 12-15 sec. then disappears. Only difference I felt after CEL on, was RPM went up about 200 rpm when stopping in red lights, usually 650 then moved to 850rpm
I saw a post suggested, before changing the CPS, try to clean the elec contacts of the sensor plugs to see if that's the cause.
17548 / 17522 / 17755 / 16684 / 16688 / 16690 / 16689 / 17930
and 1 day b4 CEL steadily ON, I got a couple CEL flashing, ea time about 12-15 sec. then disappears. Only difference I felt after CEL on, was RPM went up about 200 rpm when stopping in red lights, usually 650 then moved to 850rpm
I saw a post suggested, before changing the CPS, try to clean the elec contacts of the sensor plugs to see if that's the cause.
Last edited by bigdadi; Dec 30, 2011 at 05:39 AM.
I went thru the Bentley checks for camshaft solenoid & cam position sensors. Even ran the "check activation test" that cycled thru the various solenoids & you can hear them function (nice feature). All measurements within spec, except for when I used Vag-com for Checking phase position of CMP sensor. The results of this shown below, and indicate bank 1 phase is way out of spec.
Address 01: Engine (4B0 907 551 K)
13:13:23 Group 093: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Phase Position - Bank 1 && 2)
760 /min Engine Speed (G28)
34.6 % Engine Load
22.0°KW Phase Position Bank 1
-5.0°KW Phase Position Bank 2
Bentley says spec is 0 +/- 6 deg KW (whatever units that means). So Bank 2 is within spec but bank 1 way out at 22.
Removed bank 1 VC & disassembled front end to TB (again). Crank @ timing mark (didn't install lock pin yet, but will) & cam sprocket flanges straight horizontal (w/ big holes toward inside). Cam alignment bar in the mail, as late Xmas gift to myself. Intake & exhaust cam alignment notches perfectly aligned to the reference mark ( ^), and chain count (16)agrees with pic from Bentley. I'll post both side by side after I download from camera. So far no smoking gun. Bentley mentions checking that cam rotor ring, beneath cam position sensor is properly mounted. I'll check this next. This is a stamped sheet metal cup with the rectangular cutout on it for the cam position sensor. If I remember right, it has tang on it that need to align with a notch or hole on the intake cam. I can't imagine I assembled that wrong, but will recheck when I get my cam lock bar.
Side note: I got the conductive silver epoxy in the mail. May wait to try the ABS repair later this week at work where they have some lighted magnifiers.
Address 01: Engine (4B0 907 551 K)
13:13:23 Group 093: Continuous Camshaft Adjustment (Phase Position - Bank 1 && 2)
760 /min Engine Speed (G28)
34.6 % Engine Load
22.0°KW Phase Position Bank 1
-5.0°KW Phase Position Bank 2
Bentley says spec is 0 +/- 6 deg KW (whatever units that means). So Bank 2 is within spec but bank 1 way out at 22.
Removed bank 1 VC & disassembled front end to TB (again). Crank @ timing mark (didn't install lock pin yet, but will) & cam sprocket flanges straight horizontal (w/ big holes toward inside). Cam alignment bar in the mail, as late Xmas gift to myself. Intake & exhaust cam alignment notches perfectly aligned to the reference mark ( ^), and chain count (16)agrees with pic from Bentley. I'll post both side by side after I download from camera. So far no smoking gun. Bentley mentions checking that cam rotor ring, beneath cam position sensor is properly mounted. I'll check this next. This is a stamped sheet metal cup with the rectangular cutout on it for the cam position sensor. If I remember right, it has tang on it that need to align with a notch or hole on the intake cam. I can't imagine I assembled that wrong, but will recheck when I get my cam lock bar.
Side note: I got the conductive silver epoxy in the mail. May wait to try the ABS repair later this week at work where they have some lighted magnifiers.
Here's cam chain alignment that makes me think I have the 16 count correct. But what can be throwing the phasing off on bank 1. Cam lock bar isn't here yet, but will verify flange alignment when it comes. FYI, we had changed cam position sensor with new one before disassy & problem stayed the same.
from the pics it appears that you have it spot on. did you recheck the rotor ring? my gut tells me that your problem is there somewhere. even though you have everything lined up the ECU thinks that something is misaligned because of a faulty reading from the CPS due to an issue with the rotor ring.
i seem to remember mentioning somewhere at the beginning of this thread that by the time you were finished you would be our resident expert on this. Seems like you are getting there.
good luck
i seem to remember mentioning somewhere at the beginning of this thread that by the time you were finished you would be our resident expert on this. Seems like you are getting there.

good luck
Removed & checked Rotor ring beneath CPS & it is installed correctly, where the tab aligns into slot on camshaft. I got my "official" cam lock bar over the weekend and used it to check cam positions b4 I had removed TB. When it was installed in flange holes on bank 2 it did not align perfectly to get into holes on bank 1 flange. Was ~1/4 dia of the small hole out on the outside hole. So cam alignment wasn't exactly perfect based tool check. I'll loosen sprockets & redo TB now using the cam lock bar. This seems less angular misalignment than if it had jumped a TB tooth, but I don't know how sensitive this timing could be.
Anyway, I'm making progress on another project...Bosch ABS module repair (I hope). As I've mentioned before, ABS light & brake lights indicated on dash & vag-com showed no communication to ABS. So I cut it open & found break in 2 of the aluminum wires right at the bend location. small stuff I certainly could not have repaired this if I didn't have access to lighted magnification equipment & some ultra fine tweezers & picks. Used less than a drop of conductive silver solder to reattched the 2 silver wires & one micro gold wire that I accidently broke when removing the insulating goo. This is only pic I took, which is after patching the wires. I also subsequently patched the lower portion of the silver wires as I suspect they were likely to fail in the 90 deg bend at the based, just as they had on the top section. In this picture, the bottom portion of the silver wires are attached as they were origionally. Next step is to check it out on the car, before sealing it all back up.
Anyway, I'm making progress on another project...Bosch ABS module repair (I hope). As I've mentioned before, ABS light & brake lights indicated on dash & vag-com showed no communication to ABS. So I cut it open & found break in 2 of the aluminum wires right at the bend location. small stuff I certainly could not have repaired this if I didn't have access to lighted magnification equipment & some ultra fine tweezers & picks. Used less than a drop of conductive silver solder to reattched the 2 silver wires & one micro gold wire that I accidently broke when removing the insulating goo. This is only pic I took, which is after patching the wires. I also subsequently patched the lower portion of the silver wires as I suspect they were likely to fail in the 90 deg bend at the based, just as they had on the top section. In this picture, the bottom portion of the silver wires are attached as they were origionally. Next step is to check it out on the car, before sealing it all back up.


