Sweet car, but wouldn't you rather have the 911 that smoked him with lazy lines probably with the AC on listening to classical music and having to shift about half as often?

 

Don't feel bad, you haven't broken anything to me. Those that you speak of are private owned modded cars that could not be sold by a car company. Why isn't the NISMO's ultimate GT-R not over 1000hp? Why is it "only" 650? Because like their American counterparts, they chose to keep AC, emissions controls, longevity, and probably a more usable power band than the 1000hp+ private owned, modded cars that you refer to. My point was not that 650hp was their maximum output, it's that it's not a factory stock production car just like Hennessay and Lingenfelder are not. And if you want to go that route, it's still not the fastest.

As for the production Skylines, just over 300hp at what, 3400lbs, is little better than yawn inducing performance these days.

 

More like 3600lbs. But like most other stock cars with turbos, that is barely running it. They come with a version of the gt28r and is very capable or 350whp with just a tune and more with bigger turbo(s).

 

I knew that would be the reply. And it's very valid. It's definitely one of the advantages of turbo cars. There are also advantages to N/A cars, but you know that. Anyways, my point was made. I love a friendly debate if you'd like to argue with it. If not, have a good weekend cincy.

 

I personally would take a turbo 4 or inline 6 over a big *** V8 any day. Having a V8 and only making 300bhp or less is sad in my book sinceyou can do that with a turbo 4 or even a decent 6cyl.

 

Huh? Where did a "big *** v8" making only 300hp or less come from? Seriously, what am I missing? That just came out of nowhere.

 

It's called a pony.

 

You are a V8 guy it seems and as said above, the mustang gt and many other V8's make 300hp and less. Thats sad when you have a F20 making 240hp on a 2L 4cyl. and the k20A3 (i think its 3) type R motor making 220hp on a 2L 4cyl also. Also its a N/A comparisson for you. You may not have to torque but most honda's dont pull V8 car weights.

 

Seriously, you should drop the assumptions. Of the 12 cars I have owned, 1/2 were imports, and 1/2 were 4 cylinders. There are more types of guys than "v8 guys" and "import guys." My last daily driver before my Z06 was an '86 Bertone X 1/9 and an MR2 before that. Just because I think that the Syklines are over rated does not mean that I think a standard Mustang GT is better than a freakin' Type R. You said the Skyline has a lot of potential to improve with tuning. I agreed because it's a turbo car and mentioned that N/A has other advantages. That has nothing to do with a Ford mod motor vs. a K20. And if you would like to argue the vertues of specific engines the parameters would be the virtues of the engine that effect the price and performance of the car. Specifically, engine wieght, external demensions, fuel consumption, reliability, maintainence schedule, HP, torque, drivability, power delivery, and cost. Specific output has NOTHING to do with vehicle performance or cost. Different manufacturers choose different ways to get what they want from their engines. It is no standard for "engineering"as the engineer's job is to make the best car in it's class. Some try to get there with displacement, others with other means.

 

I agree with Z06Guy, and here’s why. I think those who tout their horsepower/liter ratio as something of value are missing the point. I think, as car enthusiasts, that what we find valuable in a car is its performance. Think about the following options- Given two identical cars (size, weight, weight distribution, handling characteristics….etc) both make 300whp. Car #1 makes this power from a 2liter 4 cylinder, car #2 makes the same power from a 5liter V8. Which would you choose? (both cars are N/A)
When you brag about an engine’s hp/liter ratio, that is the equivalent of choosing car #1 and bragging that it is somehow more choice worthy than car #2. This is not a rational thing to do when essentially the cars are identical, they are just choosing a different way of making that power. Do I think that it is sad when a 4.6liter V8 makes only 300hp when a 2liter makes 240hp? Not at all. That’s just how the manufacture chose to make that given amount of hp. Would the car be any better if it had a smaller motor and made the same power? No, it would be the same.
You might want to argue that smaller engines will typically have less weight and thus will perform better because they will weigh less when put in an equivalent car. This is true. But when you make this argument you are no longer making an argument for hp/liter, you are making an argument for hp/engine weight, which is a perfectly legitimate argument that should be respected. The same goes for the argument that smaller displacement engines have a smaller physical size and can thus fit in a smaller and lighter car. This is also true but again this is not arguing for hp/liter it is arguing for hp/physical engine size, which is again a perfectly legitimate argument.
But the fact is that in real life, the smaller engines that make equivalent power as much bigger ones usually do so through some sort of forced induction. Then you have (for example) a turbo, intercooler, and all sorts of duct work that take away the weight and size arguments from above.
For those who like to argue that any engine with a high hp/liter ratio is somehow better made or engineered, that is simply false. Just look on the internet and find specs for RC airplane motors. These engines have a hp/liter ratio of about 1,000hp/liter. Does this mean that these engines are all better engineered than high output 4cyl engines. Certainly not. If you scale up an RC airplane motor to the size of a car engine, will it continue to make the same hp/liter? The answer is no. The larger the engine the more it suffers from diminishing marginal returns. So when comparing hp/liter ratios of different engines, the bigger engines will always be at a disadvantage.
Remember it is the end result of the performance of a car, not how it achieves that performance that makes one car more choice worthy than another.