I have a 2001 Audi TT with 9XXXX miles. I was driving about 65mph down the freeway and then came to my exit, I downshifted and not immediately but shortly after (going down my freeway offramp) I noticed my power breaks were out, I then noticed my power steering was out.. I was pretty freaked..

Luckily, I got off to the shoulder and e-breaked it.. I took it to a mechanic who picked up my car from the freeway and he took a quick look at it but not a significant one because I didn't want the audi dealership try anything shady on me.

Anyway, his best guess was the timing belt.. I seriously probed on every other possible angle and he told me there is pretty much no way its not the timing belt. So, I must say, I felt pretty optimistic.

I dealt with our local dealer which I won't mention regarding my timing belt, first he gave me false information about the class action lawsuit currently going on with Audi, informing me that I was to pay for any repairs and the lawsuit was only to check if the timing belt needs to be replaced.

Okay, so these guys stalled TWO days.. they told me it would be a simple check and should be done by the afternoon and in the end it turned into a 3 day job for them to "check the timing belt" to advise me that the timing belt was NOT the issue that caused the damage to the car.

I had a meeting with the service manager and the person who worked on the car, he was able to assure me that the timing belt was not the reason for the engine damage however when I asked how he came to that conclusion he said "we visually inspected the belt and no teeth were missing".. I don't get it.

There is no suggestion as to what the real problem is, the symptoms.. engine siezed, stopping the way it did, not being able to start it up.. completely at random.. that and the service tech telling me my timing belt looked fine really IRKS me.. If there is such an issue with the timing belts how is it possible that my TT with 90XXX miles could have a "fine" timing belt?

Also, how can a "visual inspection" be sufficient evidence that the timing belt didn't cause the engine damage.. as far as I'm aware (and what I have read, please give me more to read.. I will NOT stop) the timing belt could have "slipped" only ONE time making the piston hit and causing the problem.. I have to be honest I don't know a whole lot about this and I Can afford the repairs but I feel like these guys are being quite dishonest with me.. the service rep is a very rude individual who first off lied to me about the recall in the first place and then stated once I spoke to him in person that

"There is not 100% way we can guarantee the timing belt didn't cause the engine damage"

Is due diligence really being done here? It will most likely cost me the same amount of money to hire an attorney as get the car fixed, but at least the legal fees I can write off at the end of the year..

Can people please give me as much information about timing belts and timing belt failures other than complete snappage OR if you have gone through this and you know the protocol? They are unable to tell me what is wrong with the car without me paying them $1300 however they are able to assert the timing belt is not the issue.. So at the end of the day, they want me to pay $7000 for a new engine.

Is it possible that anything else caused the symptoms of my car when out of nowhere the engine just "died". I have had the oil changed regularly.. I just want to make sure before I go all out on these people that maybe I don't just need to look into another issue first.

Also, a few questions:

Do timing belts have serial numbers on them? How can I be assured that the timing belt currently on the car is ACTUALLY the timing belt FROM the car.. How can I be assured that even if the belt isn't broken or teeth missing when the only maintenance the dealership provides is a visual inspection.. It seems to me they would have to diagnose the problem to determine it is NOT the timing belt..

At this point, now i'm sure they will send some report to audi saying my timing belt is fine and basically I am out the 7000.. so I'm thinking about just paying off the car which is less than the repairs and buying a new one... but I do feel like there has been some injustice done and I really want to make sure I defend myself if I can do so.

I apologize for the long first post, but I have a lot of work to do.. I really don't want to threaten anyone if they will just WORK with me, but it seems unreasonable to me that they will not diagnose what is wrong with the car for free when the symptoms match the timing belt and they already have a class action lawsuit against them.

So basically, if any of you are inclined to help me out, please provide me all types of timing belt failure, appropriate method to verify timing belt failure, and any other information you may have..

The only powerful information I got out of them is:

A: There is no way they can guarantee 100% that the timing belt was NOT the cause for the engine failure (Per the Service Manager, and Rep)
B: The only inspection done is a visual inspection that the belt is there and has all of the teeth. How does tension etc play into effect and is it just possible that i'm out of luck here?

I also don't mind dealing with audi corporate if they would be so kind to just allow the technicians to diagnose the problem with the car if indeed it is not the timing belt.. but at this point, I have dealt with a very rude and misinforming person and quite a big regret that I went to the dealership.

I know there has to be more stories like this.. please give me anything you have

I just want to mention that the audi recall was also about the belt tensioner which could have allowed the belt to slip without ripping teeth off the belt. the bottom line is this. If they take the engine appart and the valve are bent either the timing is off or you over reved the engine and the valves floated to hit the pistons. I had that happen once and it did not sieze the engine. i acctually drove the car to the dealer. one thing you could have a shop do to verifiy the state of your engine is to see if the bottom end (the crankshaft) is siezed. if it is then the problem is in the bottom end as well, along the lines of a siezed rod or crank bearing. if the crank still moves even the slightest bit back and forth then it is preetymuch a timing belt issue. Without any hesitation contact the bureau of automotive repair in your state. it doesnt cost anything and they mediate situations where people try to cheat you out of money.

I really appreciate your experience and information. I will promise you this I am one crazy ************ and I will not sleep until I either find out that this is my problem or they are scamming me, but given the fact of the lawsuit going on now and at 94K my timing belt that has NEVER been changed is "fine" I find that very very odd.

I am just at a particular place now where the car is still at the dealership, I personally do not trust them but I do not feel that anyone should trust a company that gives you a $7,000 bill without an explanation.

The service rep, ron, who assured me of his credentials of 17 years, was very evasive of my pointed questions because i'm sure he knows hes about to face a deposition if things continue in this manner.

I want to reconfirm with you:

A: I am not sure what the "crank" is, I must say that I am great at asking pointed questions but not so sure on direct terminology.. I am a law major, what can I say

On the left side of the engine where the engine turns over, I saw A mechanic place a socket wrench on it and turn over the engine, is this what you mean?

B: the timing belt can slip without the actual ribbing breaking off

c: if the only other option is over-revving, what is considered an over rev? I am sure that I was not above 6500 rpm, also, smug *** ron was sure to mention that he could check the speedometer and revs, like it matters to me douchebag I was driving in TRAFFIC.

I appreciate your time, and knowledge, you have been immensely helpful. If you could give me a little bit more specific knowledge on what I can do next to mitigate my damage I would appreciate it. I do think the dealer has it in their best interest to not fully check into the problem..

Also, if anyone has the specific knowledge (love the audiforums) can you explain if the symptoms of what happened to my car (power steering, breaks) going out is something that would be caused by a timing belt?

Would it be my best bet now to get the car OUT of the dealership before they can do anything else to it .. I wouldn't put it past them.. a supposed "we'll let you know by this afternoon" turning into a 3 day process and my beloved car dieing on me for no apparent reason just makes me sick.

To answer your questions:

A: The "crank" refers to the "crankshaft" which is the shaft your connecting rods and therefore pistons are attached to; the primary shaft your motor turns.



There is a gear on the outside of the engine block attached to the crank. This gear turns the timing belt. The timing belt is also attached to a gear on your cylinder head, which operates the valves. With this gear/belt mechanism your pistons/valves stay precisely synchronized.

B: The timing belt TENSIONER fails more commonly than the belt itself, which causes the belt to lose tension and possibly jump teeth without damaging itself. This still causes engine damage because your pistons/valves fall out of sync and typically collide.

C: The only way you could over rev your motor is by "money shifting" it, that is downshifting into an incorrect lower gear. Say, you were on the highway doing 65 and went to shift into third but you somehow shifted into first...this would catastrophically over rev your engine since your drivetrain would cause it to spin far past redline.


Here's some other knowledge of mine for you to wield:

1. Your description of the scenario matches a failure to a tee. If you're not on the throttle you likely won't notice anything happening until you try and hit the gas again or use something that depends on the engine's power like power steering. Also, timing belts never seem to last more than 9x,xxx miles tops.
2. There's just about nothing else that would cause your engine to shutoff immediately, unnoticeably and not want to start up again. Only other thing I can think of is hydrolock, and that would require pretty much swimming with your car.
3. It is impossible to see the entire belt from just looking at it from under the hood. About half of it is obscured.
4. The timing belt TENSIONER has a habit of failing moreso than the belt. If the tensioner breaks, the belt loses tension and skips teeth, not necessarily damaging itself, but completely throwing off your timing nevertheless. Your dealer could be throwing you for a loop saying your TIMING BELT didn't fail when in fact they know your TENSIONER did instead.
5. Timing belt failure usually causes pistons to collide with all 8 exhaust valves and 4 of the 12 intake valves and bend them. This requires new pistons/valves or new pistons/head. If you are extremely lucky, your valves could stop in such a position that they clear the pistons.
6. Timing belt failure can be diagnosed on your own...here's how:

A. Crank the engine like you're trying to start it. Does it turn over really easily? It should, because damaged valves would cause complete loss of compression making it easy for your starter to turn the motor.
B. Get a friend and pop the hood. On the left side of the engine block there is a black cover held on by a pair of clips...it is clearly visible here next to the braided stainless steel (oil?) line.


Pull the cover off just enough to expose the belt. Feel up the belt with your hand...it should be very tight. If it's not...if there's clearly play in it and it's clearly not taught...it's an obvious tensioner failure.

If it still feels taught, KEEP YOUR HANDS CLEAR OF THE BELT and have your friend try and start the car while you watch. If you can't see the belt turning, the tensioner or belt have failed.

Hope this helps; arm yourself with knowledge and go get em.

Few things to clarify:

1: I wasn't sure what the hell was wrong with the car, so I tried to start it after a minute.. the engine seemed to start but i'm not 100% sure, but currently the engine will not turn over _at all_.

Also, white smoke appeared from the engine, but again, this was after i tried to start the car once.

I had my timing off by about two-three teeth and the valves hit, that in turn lead to rebuilding the head. I thought it was everything besides what it was
If I was in your situation I would...
First- Get it out of the Dealers hands immediately!

Second- Take it to an independent shop and have them do a compression test (Only if you cant do it yourself) The compression test will tell you if there are any bent valves. If you have no compression on any one of the cylinders then that means your valves hit and are bent. Chances are the roller failed or your missing a couple teeth on the belt.

Third- Find a local machine shop that will rebuild the head, repairs can be around $1500 with parts and labor.

Fourth- Go to www.timingbeltsettlement.com, print out the info for reimbursement and send it in before 9/30/08 to get approved.

Last- Show up with the results and ask Ron when was the last time his credentials were tested. JK.

The dealer would've easily known what was wrong if they did the comp. test themselves, hell after three days of the car sitting there I would expect a definitive answer.
Good Luck

Okay guys, i'm going to town with my friends here and I need to be able to prove they are the negligent a$holes they are.

Can anyone give me the necessary steps to check the timing belt to verify if it is damaged?

I would assume that:

A: The covers would have to be removed from the car.
B: The belt would have to be removed from the car.
C: Any gear would have to be checked for consistency..


I am sure there is more to the timing belt system, I am looking at diagrams when I get a chance tonight but I need to know all of the possibilities. I am going to tape record them and get the exact procedures they have followed and possibly file a negligence lawsuit against them for not doing "everything they can" to verify it was not timing belt failure before exclaiming there is no way the timing belt could cause the problem.

I can vouch for the timing belt failure. Exact same symptoms happened to me recently back in July. The tensioner failed for me causing the belt to lose tension and skip a whole bunch of teeth... the belt was completely in-tact and relatively undamaged. The way the guys here are describing to test is indeed the only 100% sure way you can be sure if the timing belt or related components failed. You need to check belt tension, you need to run a compression test, and you need to get a second opinion.

When mine went the engine made a "whirring" noise when I tried to start it. Sounded like everything was turning very freely, too freely. I would say at best your car would need a new head. Since you were in such rpm there's pretty much no chance or your valves being ok. Take a look at my thread...

https://www.audiforums.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=107252

Good pics in there of the damage. Keep in mind that this happened at idle. The damage most likely happened for me when I tried to start it back up. Audi is doing a full reimbursement for timing belt related failures... you definitely want the audi dealership to give you a detailed explanation before forking over any cash.

if you bent valves and now they are hitting the piston, then your starter might not be able to crank the engine over. main key now are the following tests as mentioned above.

1, compression test on all cylinders
2. check if the engine turns over when you try to start it with starter.
3 put a socket on the end of the crankshaft (passenger side) and try to spin the engine by hand.
if all 3 tests fail then its definitely timing belt. if 1 and either 2 or 3 fails still timing belt. if 2 or 3 fail but 1 is fine, then its a bottom end problem, meaning your crankshaft or rods failed.

As far as over reving the engine, it happens lets say if you rev past redline or in situations when driving fast and instead of shifting into 5th gear from 4th you shift into 3rd and max out your redline again. that will cause your valves to float and smack the pistons. (i did that 1 time, warranty fixed it, thanks to a nice service manager) i doubt you did that.

Wow. This is all really good info. If you can't do or don't have the tools to do these tests, I would give this infomation to the first shop you had the car at. Let them check it over and bring it back to a different audi dealer to get fixed. If you screw up the car worse, good luck getting audi to pay for anything.

Like said above, I would guess the timing belt is ok, but it was a timing belt related failure (ie: TENSIONER).