VR6 Engine Swap??
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13
From: Austin (well, Pflugerville, but close enough)
I've found quite a few R32 engines (3.2 VR6) for sale in the $3-5k range. You figure, if you're any good at all with cars & mechanics & fabrication, you could put the engine on a cherry picker, take it apart and clean/rebuild it to your satisfaction level, and you're well on your way. From there you need:
Transmission (or an adapter to make the one you have work--$1500 or so incl rebuild)
Mounts (including engine, starter, etc--034 has these maybe $1500 for all of them)
Engine Management ($1750 - 034's Stage IIc ECU--most maxed out version they sell)
Some miscellaneous stuff, but not a whole hell of a lot more
At this point, you've got an engine that stock put out 250hp @ 6300rpm, and 236lb-ft @ 2500-3000 rpm, with the custom engine management software and a little tweaking, you can probably get 300hp and 270lb out of it. And also a VERY unique car. No lag, instant power, pretty ballsy, and a nice exhaust note. And you can add the turbo later. The above is $7750 plus extras, call it $10,000 and some blood, sweat, and tears.
The brakes, suspension, etc. would be needed either way you go, so we'll leave that out for now. In my case, buying a very clean B5 Avant S4 would run at least $10-11k. A decent stage 3 kit, done right, is gonna run a good $6-7k (turbos, intercooler, software, fueling, etc).
So, I'd be at $16-18k after everything, and I'd have a sweet ride, that lots of other guys have. OR, keep my current car and add the $10k to it (and that might be pushing it). I can sell the 1.8T, the transmission, and a few other things. Kinetic Motorsports makes a turbo kit for the R32 that dyno'd at 420WHP @ 18psi on 92 octane for $4500. And the standalone engine management is already there. Someone show me a stage 3 S4 putting out 450 wheel hp. I know they can do that and more, but not on a simple stage 3 setup.
I'm sourcing the VR6 now, planning it for my 99.5 A4 Avant. It's currently running a 1.8T, but soon it will be a 3rd car and I'll have more room to play with it. And turbocharging this engine to 450WHP will not have it performing on the frayed edges of sanity.
Everything stated before in this thread is accurate...I'm just presenting a different view...part of my entire goal with this project. Either way, good luck!
Transmission (or an adapter to make the one you have work--$1500 or so incl rebuild)
Mounts (including engine, starter, etc--034 has these maybe $1500 for all of them)
Engine Management ($1750 - 034's Stage IIc ECU--most maxed out version they sell)
Some miscellaneous stuff, but not a whole hell of a lot more
At this point, you've got an engine that stock put out 250hp @ 6300rpm, and 236lb-ft @ 2500-3000 rpm, with the custom engine management software and a little tweaking, you can probably get 300hp and 270lb out of it. And also a VERY unique car. No lag, instant power, pretty ballsy, and a nice exhaust note. And you can add the turbo later. The above is $7750 plus extras, call it $10,000 and some blood, sweat, and tears.
The brakes, suspension, etc. would be needed either way you go, so we'll leave that out for now. In my case, buying a very clean B5 Avant S4 would run at least $10-11k. A decent stage 3 kit, done right, is gonna run a good $6-7k (turbos, intercooler, software, fueling, etc).
So, I'd be at $16-18k after everything, and I'd have a sweet ride, that lots of other guys have. OR, keep my current car and add the $10k to it (and that might be pushing it). I can sell the 1.8T, the transmission, and a few other things. Kinetic Motorsports makes a turbo kit for the R32 that dyno'd at 420WHP @ 18psi on 92 octane for $4500. And the standalone engine management is already there. Someone show me a stage 3 S4 putting out 450 wheel hp. I know they can do that and more, but not on a simple stage 3 setup.
I'm sourcing the VR6 now, planning it for my 99.5 A4 Avant. It's currently running a 1.8T, but soon it will be a 3rd car and I'll have more room to play with it. And turbocharging this engine to 450WHP will not have it performing on the frayed edges of sanity.
Everything stated before in this thread is accurate...I'm just presenting a different view...part of my entire goal with this project. Either way, good luck!
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13
From: Austin (well, Pflugerville, but close enough)
Quote: "Yea, it would be unique and something if you want a show car or just have the extra cash. If it's just an assload of power you want out of a v6, build a s4"
Not sure I understand the show car analogy, or the extra cash thing. If you want an assload of power from anything, you're going to have to spend your "extra cash". And as anyone with a built S4 will tell you, they are like boats...they are large pits that you throw money in. A VR6 build would be no different, except maybe that it is a less finicky engine than the 2.7T. Oh yeah, if you go the 3.2 route (same engine in an R32 or TT) you get 18.5% more engine than the 2.7...or 500cc's. That's almost a whole motorcycle!
Hey, to each his own. But if you can do the work yourself (and yes, I know...it's going to be a lot of work), swapping a VR6 into an A4 would cost less than buying an S4 and turning it into a stage 3. If you have to pay for someone else to do it, you might be cheaper getting the S4 and making it fast, but then you have to factor the labor for your stage 3 swap as well, which isn't cheap. It might surprise you to know that there are quite a few people that have swapped VR6's into S4's for the reliability and power they make. Even the 12V's. And the engines are just beasts.
Current B5 A4 $paid for (can sell engine and transmission)
3.2 VR6 engine $5000 (complete, prob can sell unused parts)
Transmission $1500
Mounts $1500
Engine Management $1750 - 034 Stage IIc ECU
Turbo Kit $4500-Kinetic Motorsport 420WHP (=550 crank hp)
Exhaust $1000
__________________________________
TOTAL $15250
----OR----
B5 S4 $9000 (can prob sell old K03's)
Stage 3 kit $8000-APR 447hp 467tq @ Crank
$8635-AWE 460hp, 455tq @ Crank
Exhaust $1000
Intercoolers $1200 (included above, but might need modifying)
___________________________________
TOTAL $19200-19835
I just posted that for a frame of reference, just to show that you can, in fact, do the VR6 swap relatively easy. Notice I said relatively. And I also know that there are hidden costs and other things that happen...but they happen on either build. And when you have to go mess with something on a 2.7T, you usually have to pull the engine up to access stuff.
Bottom line is, if you wanna go really fast and have a LOT of power, either way is a viable and expensive option. To get a lot of power will cost a lot of money. I think the above figure for the VR6 Turbo swap is not only legitimate, but also within the realm of feasibility since it can easily be done in stages and it's cheaper than getting another car. That's one of the reasons I'm going to do it.
But for either of us to argue any of these points right now is like saying one supermodel would theoretically be better in bed than another one. I'll post on here again after I've slept with one of them and tell you what I think...
I just think this is the way I will go. Reminds me of growing up and swapping V8 engines into cars that had 4 or 6 cylinder engines at best. This might look a little classier (and it will have more horsepower). Like someone already wrote, if you want to avoid the hassle, get an S4, write a big check, go fast. I like the challenge of "the hassle", and it's been done enough times that there is information out there to help make it less difficult.
Not sure I understand the show car analogy, or the extra cash thing. If you want an assload of power from anything, you're going to have to spend your "extra cash". And as anyone with a built S4 will tell you, they are like boats...they are large pits that you throw money in. A VR6 build would be no different, except maybe that it is a less finicky engine than the 2.7T. Oh yeah, if you go the 3.2 route (same engine in an R32 or TT) you get 18.5% more engine than the 2.7...or 500cc's. That's almost a whole motorcycle!
Hey, to each his own. But if you can do the work yourself (and yes, I know...it's going to be a lot of work), swapping a VR6 into an A4 would cost less than buying an S4 and turning it into a stage 3. If you have to pay for someone else to do it, you might be cheaper getting the S4 and making it fast, but then you have to factor the labor for your stage 3 swap as well, which isn't cheap. It might surprise you to know that there are quite a few people that have swapped VR6's into S4's for the reliability and power they make. Even the 12V's. And the engines are just beasts.
Current B5 A4 $paid for (can sell engine and transmission)
3.2 VR6 engine $5000 (complete, prob can sell unused parts)
Transmission $1500
Mounts $1500
Engine Management $1750 - 034 Stage IIc ECU
Turbo Kit $4500-Kinetic Motorsport 420WHP (=550 crank hp)
Exhaust $1000
__________________________________
TOTAL $15250
----OR----
B5 S4 $9000 (can prob sell old K03's)
Stage 3 kit $8000-APR 447hp 467tq @ Crank
$8635-AWE 460hp, 455tq @ Crank
Exhaust $1000
Intercoolers $1200 (included above, but might need modifying)
___________________________________
TOTAL $19200-19835
I just posted that for a frame of reference, just to show that you can, in fact, do the VR6 swap relatively easy. Notice I said relatively. And I also know that there are hidden costs and other things that happen...but they happen on either build. And when you have to go mess with something on a 2.7T, you usually have to pull the engine up to access stuff.
Bottom line is, if you wanna go really fast and have a LOT of power, either way is a viable and expensive option. To get a lot of power will cost a lot of money. I think the above figure for the VR6 Turbo swap is not only legitimate, but also within the realm of feasibility since it can easily be done in stages and it's cheaper than getting another car. That's one of the reasons I'm going to do it.
But for either of us to argue any of these points right now is like saying one supermodel would theoretically be better in bed than another one. I'll post on here again after I've slept with one of them and tell you what I think...
I just think this is the way I will go. Reminds me of growing up and swapping V8 engines into cars that had 4 or 6 cylinder engines at best. This might look a little classier (and it will have more horsepower). Like someone already wrote, if you want to avoid the hassle, get an S4, write a big check, go fast. I like the challenge of "the hassle", and it's been done enough times that there is information out there to help make it less difficult.
Last edited by AustinQuattro; Jul 25, 2010 at 05:50 PM.
What VR6 turbo kit are you talking about for $4500? I sure hope your not talking about a "R32" turbo kit because that is meant for a R32 which is a Transverse setup while a VR6 into a B5 is a longitude setup. Whole different ball game.
Can you point out all the 450whp B5 A4 VR6 cars? I know of a few, but very few of them are actually running. I sold a few custom clutch/flywheel setups to guys doing the VR6/01E setup in their B5 S4/A4, just sold one this week.
Can you point out all the 450whp B5 A4 VR6 cars? I know of a few, but very few of them are actually running. I sold a few custom clutch/flywheel setups to guys doing the VR6/01E setup in their B5 S4/A4, just sold one this week.
Last edited by Mike-2ptzero; Jul 25, 2010 at 06:59 PM.
Car show analogy - it would be unique because it isn't a widely done swap
Extra cash - because you want something unique and you have money to blow
Sounds like you made up your mind bro, lol. I was just putting in my little ole .02 Good luck with it all.
Extra cash - because you want something unique and you have money to blow
Sounds like you made up your mind bro, lol. I was just putting in my little ole .02 Good luck with it all.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,728
From: noob from NY
audizine has a thread dedicated to this, you'll have to search for it though. search for something like vr6 swap info. it's got info on the 12v and the 24v Vr6 motor, both basically bullet proof.
034 motorsports makes all the goodies for it. contact them for more info. issam is who you wanna talk to, he's the president of the company
034 motorsports makes all the goodies for it. contact them for more info. issam is who you wanna talk to, he's the president of the company
034 Motorsports employees
Now where do you exactly see "Issam" on that page? No where.
Issam just shared advertising on AZ with 034 but not any more. He even has a 510 area code phone to make it seem like he is in CA when he is not.
Last edited by Mike-2ptzero; Jul 26, 2010 at 10:54 AM.
Tech Slut
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,150
From: Jersey Shore
Isn't Isaam with INA or whatever?
Found this stuff for sale on vortex if any of you are serious about this swap.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...is-pieces-(NEW!)
Found this stuff for sale on vortex if any of you are serious about this swap.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...is-pieces-(NEW!)
Yes, INA is his business which has always been a 034 Dealer. But for some reason some people thinks he owns or works for 034.
There are plenty of people that jumped at the VR6 into a B5 conversion, but a huge % of them never finished doing it and ended up selling the parts or the car.
There are plenty of people that jumped at the VR6 into a B5 conversion, but a huge % of them never finished doing it and ended up selling the parts or the car.