SRT-4 or A4
#1
12-28-2009, 08:38 AM
SRT-4 or A4
Im in the market for a new car that will eventually become a street/race car. I love everything about the A4 except for the power out of the box. I like the SRT-4 because of that. With you guys knowledge/experience which one would I see the most gains from with my time and money. I plan on eventually rebuilding the engine and of course upgrading the turbo but im assuming it would cost way more with the A4 because its a german vehicle than it would with the SRT-4. The only advantage i c with the A4 performance wise is that its all-wheel drive. Any opinions would be very helpful. Thanx
#5
12-28-2009, 11:10 PM
LOL...love the responses.
From someone with experience in both it depends on what you want, they are two totally different cars.
First off they are two differnet cars. You can make way more power with the SRT-4 for less money than the 1.8.
When you get around 400hp, you reach the limit of the output shaft. It fails from stress, oddly enough shifting into 4th or 5th well north of 100mph. 400hp will do fine on a stock motor with some head work, but stock bottom end.
Its also way lighter, no solid numbers but I'd guess around 400-600lbs.
If your looking for a cheap quick track car then the SRT-4 is a better choice but your giving up a lot of creature comfort.
The SRT-4 will be way cheaper to maintain too and easier to work on than the A4.
For all the Neon haters we're out at Grattan Raceway every summer, bring out your front end heavy, engine over center, snow plow driving car and see how it does against some stock SRT-4's
One of my instructors has a 650hp ACR Viper and a 430hp SRT-4, both are extreme setups and the Neon is only 3 seconds slower per lap.
I like our Audi's, but handling cars they are not. They are, a high interior quality car that loses value like a cinder block dropped in the ocean because of their high cost to maintain. Most Audi owners are in reality looking to buy a car at a quality level they could not afford, how is that for a sterotype? Look at me, I'm driving an Audi...forget the fact most people don't realize they cost about 20 percent of their original sale value
I buy Audi's because they are dirt cheap due to their many problems and the fact I have a hoist and a fully setup garage to work on with.
BTW my experience with the cars is I run high speed driving schools out at Grattan, I've driven many cars out there and every Audi out there has the same issues, push, push and more push.
Plus the unfixable 'pitchyness' of the A3/A4 that no amount of money seems to be able to fix, I've watched one of our participants pour money by the gallon into his A3 to fix the issue and you just can't get around it.
In the end, buy the car you like better that better meets your goals.
From someone with experience in both it depends on what you want, they are two totally different cars.
First off they are two differnet cars. You can make way more power with the SRT-4 for less money than the 1.8.
When you get around 400hp, you reach the limit of the output shaft. It fails from stress, oddly enough shifting into 4th or 5th well north of 100mph. 400hp will do fine on a stock motor with some head work, but stock bottom end.
Its also way lighter, no solid numbers but I'd guess around 400-600lbs.
If your looking for a cheap quick track car then the SRT-4 is a better choice but your giving up a lot of creature comfort.
The SRT-4 will be way cheaper to maintain too and easier to work on than the A4.
For all the Neon haters we're out at Grattan Raceway every summer, bring out your front end heavy, engine over center, snow plow driving car and see how it does against some stock SRT-4's
One of my instructors has a 650hp ACR Viper and a 430hp SRT-4, both are extreme setups and the Neon is only 3 seconds slower per lap.I like our Audi's, but handling cars they are not. They are, a high interior quality car that loses value like a cinder block dropped in the ocean because of their high cost to maintain. Most Audi owners are in reality looking to buy a car at a quality level they could not afford, how is that for a sterotype? Look at me, I'm driving an Audi...forget the fact most people don't realize they cost about 20 percent of their original sale value
I buy Audi's because they are dirt cheap due to their many problems and the fact I have a hoist and a fully setup garage to work on with.
BTW my experience with the cars is I run high speed driving schools out at Grattan, I've driven many cars out there and every Audi out there has the same issues, push, push and more push.
Plus the unfixable 'pitchyness' of the A3/A4 that no amount of money seems to be able to fix, I've watched one of our participants pour money by the gallon into his A3 to fix the issue and you just can't get around it.
In the end, buy the car you like better that better meets your goals.
Last edited by Eric_C; 12-28-2009 at 11:13 PM.
#6
12-29-2009, 11:32 AM
A4 a snow plowing car? LOL. It isn't very hard to setup the A4 1.8t quattro to over steer and that can just with a sway bar or stiffer suspension. Plus it is very easy to control a AWD car that oversteers since you just increase the power(aka point and shoot).
It takes a whole ATP GTRS or GT2871r to make 400chp and if its 400whp a GT3076 will make that on pump gas.
The A3 and A4 are nothing alike.
It might cost less money to make power on a SRT-4. But as everyone knows, big power on a FWD car is worthless if you cant that power to the ground. AWD FTW. I guess thats why quattro was outlawed from Touring races since they were beating everything with their B5 A4 quattro cars.
Here is a video of a B6 A4 1.8t that is prepped for road racing. It now runs a built 2 liter with a GT3076r. Video is being shot from inside a Miata.
It takes a whole ATP GTRS or GT2871r to make 400chp and if its 400whp a GT3076 will make that on pump gas.
The A3 and A4 are nothing alike.
It might cost less money to make power on a SRT-4. But as everyone knows, big power on a FWD car is worthless if you cant that power to the ground. AWD FTW. I guess thats why quattro was outlawed from Touring races since they were beating everything with their B5 A4 quattro cars.
Here is a video of a B6 A4 1.8t that is prepped for road racing. It now runs a built 2 liter with a GT3076r. Video is being shot from inside a Miata.
Last edited by Mike-2ptzero; 12-29-2009 at 11:40 AM.
#7
12-29-2009, 06:41 PM
Oversteer and handling are two different things.
A3/A4 share a similar problem with being pitchy. You just don't put most of your weight forward of the front axle and not expect it to push. Audi does a great job hiding it but its still there, more so the older you get.
Audi also completes in ALMS with AWD...how do they do there?
My point was to point out that a lot of people rag on a lot of different cars from no point of reference. I spent a lot of time in a lot of different cars on a race track at speed.
I hate FWD and wouldn't buy one no matter what but there are plenty of people in FWD cars that are faster than I am, doesn't mean the car is crap, just that its a different setup that could be as equally as capable.
For all the cars I've driven, from exotic to domestic the ones you think are going to be the best to drive or stand above the rest rarely do.
I've driven Porsche's, Corvettes, Mustangs, Vipers, Neons, a few kit cars, go karts, RX7's, Miata's...the 997 was bleh...felt great, not all that fast flat out but for $70K I could do much better. I hated the Corvette, and it was my Corvette. 450hp C5, caged, everything you can imagine done to it but it was numb and boring.
My LS1 FD RX7 was an absolute blast to drive on the track or by myself but beat the crap out of you everywhere else and my wife hated driving it in for more than 20 minutes, and unless I was out hot ******* it, so did I.
My two favorite track cars, an 08 Mustang GT manual w/ slicks, big brakes, Roush tuned shocks/springs plus camber plates. That 'crappy' solid axle car was way more fun to drive than most of the ones listed above and I was neck and neck with one of my instructors in a Cayman S w/ Pilot Sport II's. Also the Chrysler Crossfire, 14 year old chassis, recirculating ball steering but an absolute blast to throw around on the track.
I've also been in a Nissan GTR which while fun, fast, and did some pretty impossible things was too mechanical. The student was so far off line that if we were in any other car we would have gone off and rolled but it just turned the corner like it was nothing defying physics almost, which while cool for a few laps was not very technical and boring.
It would however would make an awesome street car because of it, had a level of grip on street tires most do not have on slicks, but it wasn't the car, it was the chassis electronics.
Different cars for different purposes was my point. If he'd rather go fast cheap and have more of a raw ride then the SRT-4 might suit him better.
That's why people buy Vipers, because they enjoy a more raw experience. They are cool cars but after 25 minutes in one most people are done unless they truly enjoy what the car is.
A3/A4 share a similar problem with being pitchy. You just don't put most of your weight forward of the front axle and not expect it to push. Audi does a great job hiding it but its still there, more so the older you get.
Audi also completes in ALMS with AWD...how do they do there?
My point was to point out that a lot of people rag on a lot of different cars from no point of reference. I spent a lot of time in a lot of different cars on a race track at speed.
I hate FWD and wouldn't buy one no matter what but there are plenty of people in FWD cars that are faster than I am, doesn't mean the car is crap, just that its a different setup that could be as equally as capable.
For all the cars I've driven, from exotic to domestic the ones you think are going to be the best to drive or stand above the rest rarely do.
I've driven Porsche's, Corvettes, Mustangs, Vipers, Neons, a few kit cars, go karts, RX7's, Miata's...the 997 was bleh...felt great, not all that fast flat out but for $70K I could do much better. I hated the Corvette, and it was my Corvette. 450hp C5, caged, everything you can imagine done to it but it was numb and boring.
My LS1 FD RX7 was an absolute blast to drive on the track or by myself but beat the crap out of you everywhere else and my wife hated driving it in for more than 20 minutes, and unless I was out hot ******* it, so did I.
My two favorite track cars, an 08 Mustang GT manual w/ slicks, big brakes, Roush tuned shocks/springs plus camber plates. That 'crappy' solid axle car was way more fun to drive than most of the ones listed above and I was neck and neck with one of my instructors in a Cayman S w/ Pilot Sport II's. Also the Chrysler Crossfire, 14 year old chassis, recirculating ball steering but an absolute blast to throw around on the track.
I've also been in a Nissan GTR which while fun, fast, and did some pretty impossible things was too mechanical. The student was so far off line that if we were in any other car we would have gone off and rolled but it just turned the corner like it was nothing defying physics almost, which while cool for a few laps was not very technical and boring.
It would however would make an awesome street car because of it, had a level of grip on street tires most do not have on slicks, but it wasn't the car, it was the chassis electronics.
Different cars for different purposes was my point. If he'd rather go fast cheap and have more of a raw ride then the SRT-4 might suit him better.
That's why people buy Vipers, because they enjoy a more raw experience. They are cool cars but after 25 minutes in one most people are done unless they truly enjoy what the car is.
Last edited by Eric_C; 12-29-2009 at 06:45 PM.
#8
12-29-2009, 06:44 PM
From someone that bought an SRT-4 back in 04 when they were new (young and dumb)
I can tell you they are a pile of crap. The best thing in it is japanese (mitsubishi engine)
combined with a limited slip diff and a manual trans, it is fun to bomb around in. However the torque steer is rediculous, and no one really gives you any respect driving it, not to mention every 16 year old in a honda always wants to race you which gets very annoying. The trim falls off, the A pillars and A/C ducts magically started falling off when driving around the track. In short the build quality is terrible, its basically a crap box with a decent engine and drivetrain.
There is no comparison with an A4, its better in just about every way. You will pay more to maintain it, but if you're really worried about breaking down, you shouldn't be looking at any performance vehicle in the first place.
I can tell you they are a pile of crap. The best thing in it is japanese (mitsubishi engine)
combined with a limited slip diff and a manual trans, it is fun to bomb around in. However the torque steer is rediculous, and no one really gives you any respect driving it, not to mention every 16 year old in a honda always wants to race you which gets very annoying. The trim falls off, the A pillars and A/C ducts magically started falling off when driving around the track. In short the build quality is terrible, its basically a crap box with a decent engine and drivetrain.
There is no comparison with an A4, its better in just about every way. You will pay more to maintain it, but if you're really worried about breaking down, you shouldn't be looking at any performance vehicle in the first place.
#9
12-29-2009, 10:06 PM
The engine is not a Mitsubishi, it is a Chrysler motor.
It is a derivative of the original 2.0 that was developed for first use in the Neon in a SOHC and DOHC setup.
They were originally turbo charged in Mexican Stratus's and then that setup was brought here for the SRT-4 Neon.
The 2.4 in the Caliber SRT which truly is a complete POS, is the new World Motor.
It is a derivative of the original 2.0 that was developed for first use in the Neon in a SOHC and DOHC setup.
They were originally turbo charged in Mexican Stratus's and then that setup was brought here for the SRT-4 Neon.
The 2.4 in the Caliber SRT which truly is a complete POS, is the new World Motor.
Last edited by Eric_C; 12-29-2009 at 10:12 PM.
#10
12-29-2009, 10:27 PM
Here is a video of a B6 A4 1.8t that is prepped for road racing. It now runs a built 2 liter with a GT3076r. Video is being shot from inside a Miata.
And in that video you can see it pushing, plus that IT Miata with its whopping 130ish HP catches him when it comes into the corners.
People do drive Audi's at the track, mostly because they have an Audi and then go to the track.
Its just not the optimal car for the track if that is part of his intent and I doubt you'd find many who would say that it is if you were starting fresh.
BTW the driver of the Miata was flying.