...seems like most people here are against the idea of spraying the A4, whether it's a "purity" reason ("real cars don't use nitrous") or something else, have any of you 1.8T guys tried just running a nitrous spray system for your intercooler? I think most of us know that it can be very effective, but I haven't seen discussion or pics of anyone's car here using such a setup.

I know that I'm a noob, and I draw most of my mechanical knowledge from what I've done in my "past life" as a 300Z owner, so forgive me for that, but I've seen some scary power gains there with using such a system. For example (and granted this is a heavily worked example), a guy named Sean Wagner ran that type of setup (along with a wet 60 shot) into his twin-TD05-18G car. Running the car only on boost on the dyno, at 24psi, he hit a number in the neighborhood of 580whp. His next pass on the dyno, running only 20psi, and spraying a 60 shot in the motor and fogging the FMIC, netted 744whp. He gained 164whp in the process. Yes, 60hp of N20 was sprayed into the engine, but that's still 104whp on top of that, made with 4psi LESS boost and an IC spray.

Is there any reason why people don't seem to be using such setups on the 1.8T cars? Or are you, and I'm just a tard that didn't see it in your cars? I'm asking because I'm bored, I'm curious, and I like to get discussions going on topics I haven't seen discussed in awhile. Any info or feedback is welcome.

 

Go here:

http://www.streetneeds.com/download....ocars/&thumbp=

second from the bottom, middle column (wagz744.mpg is the file).

 

Spraying on the intercooler N2O is kinda like a waste of money. first its kinda expensive. Smart people use Cryon system.
ye, we can spray our engenes, somepeople do. But in NY its illigal. But who cares about legal or not. Its just that N20 takes too much out of the engine. Thats why I personaly is against it. You can easilly damage the engine. its not a problem geting it. The amount of nitrous used in cash can be put into more permement system like a eliminator setup on 1.8T. or PES supercharger. Or as coming soon, mine supercharger system.

If you want great cooling, invest into air to water intercooler. it can have efficiency as high as 90%, or even higher if you upgrade it. like AC for it, or ice bath. 150% no problem.
60 shot is only 60HP (theoretically) on 500hp motor is like nothing, therefore the sideeffect is not as great. on 150hp motor, 60 shot is a lot, so sideeffect is greater. if you want to spray, spray no more that 35% of the none sprayed motor's HP, that way engine wont suffer as much. and no dry, only wet system. So on 200hp motor dont spray more that 70shot. on 150hp dont spray more that 52shot ~50shot. Plus get wideband to monitor AFR all the time.

I cannot stop you, so I just help you out. [sm=massbounce.gif][sm=alcoholic.gif]

 

I realize that cost can be a factor, but then again, most people with IC sprayers don't use them every pull through the gears - more for track racing or for an occasional blast, since by the time you're at a power level where money is wisely invested in an IC sprayer system of any sort, chances are you don't need it all that often - you're not gonna need it for merging from a freeway onramp. As for the Cryon system, cool - as I said, I'm a noob here and haven't seen much in the way of discussion on IC spraying. I realize that spraying on the street is illegal here in NY (although you can have the system in the car while driving, the feed line from the bottle must be disconnected to keep it legal), but then again, we're not in hatchbacks here (most of us anyway) where the bottle would be visible to someone standing next to the car.

As for damaging the car, I agree it can damage the car if sprayed into the engine in an inappropriate volume, or for consistenly long durations constantly. However, as you've also said and/or implied with your percentages (which I agree with completely, as well as agreeing with the wet-shot system over dry), with the system jetted properly (and without the driver getting greedy and changing those proper jets for larger ones), nitrous can be a safe power-adder to use. I wasn't specifically trying to bring internal N20 shots into the topic, but it is relevant. I was aiming more at IC fogger setups alone.

Air to water is a great way to cool a boosted intake charge, but in my own car, were I to force-induct my engine, I'd still probably go with air to air, both for relative ease of packaging, and also for the fact that extended driving time, even when not boosting hard, can still end up with less efficiency in the cooling system as the ice water does warm up. For a track car, especially a drag car, I would be all for air to water intercooling.

As for detailing the 60 shot that Sean used, that was just for the sake of completeness - I didn't want to bias the description by saying that he was spraying only the intercooler, turning the boost down 4psi, and gaining 168whp. And I have a feeling (as you alluded to) that on a motor like that, he probably gains as much from the internal nitrous shot's ability to cool the intake charge as he does from the actual oxygen-richening effect of the spray. And I also agree with you on the wideband monitor - to which I'd also add EGT monitoring as well.

We're on the same page here as far as I can see - my only point in the post was to see if there was an Audi-specific reason why I wasn't seeing IC fogger setups more often on the boosted cars here on AF.

 

the gains that audi gets from larger turboes, more boost etc.. is hard to jestify the foging of the IC. Couse most people here, dont know for sure, dont go over 350hp. So the need is a lot less. However if some do go over, then they probably are not here, but are sponsored people, who have their own engener(s).

The only reason I see foging the IC is to cool the IC while standing, when moving it can be debateble on how much it actually worth it. So I would think it would work best on a dragstip car. But then again there are rulles that can forbit of its use.

There is however the think with audi, we just enjoy the car as is. Adding N2O means we have to run someone, else it is pointless. thats my opinion.

and ye, I do agree with my self and with you. EGT is valuable.

The water to air, is kinda better. However if to compare to air to air, its more compicated. most people are just satisfied with larger intercooler. So I dont know, water to air is kinda what I like. I can list advantages and disatvantages, but I dont have a day to write a book.

 

Damn right you don't have a day to write a book! Haha, cause you should be spending your time putting a M90 in your car

 

You are so right. Cant wait, there is no time to do it now, couse of snow, or fact that I dont have a garage yet. But as soon as snow pases, and temp be about 15c I will go outside and do this thing.

Before that, I make a DIY on how to put 30 dollar boost/vacuem system in your car. and after that I probably gona get a Wideband.

 

I had a spare Wet NX kit from a few past projects and frankly I'm afraid to physically inject my 1.8T for fear of damage. And I have pushed the limits of nitrous use on past work without any ill effect (80 shot on a 150hp motor is alot of fun btw). I'm not pushing my luck with a forced induction car though.

Anyways,I decided to make my own IC fogger utilizing the bottle,purge valve, feed line, momentary contact switch, and bottle heater with a homemade fogger rail. I dont feel like paying $160+ for the rail since thats all I need to make it work. I made the rail from 1/4" copper tube with some brass fittingsand drilled a vent every 1/2". The first prototype was a 6" x 8" rail and was a bit too large for the stock sidemount in my TT. I have a picture of that rail test fitted, but I still need to make a 6" x 6" rail to fit.

Theres a local shop that does bottle fills for less than $2/lb so its not prohibitively expensive (used to be on a 2 bottle a week habit, im a nitrous junkie lol). I intend to use the system mostly for repetitive track runs since thats when the heat soak is most apparent, and only before the run instead of a standard WOT style nitrousswitch.

I live in Florida, so its hot most of the year. Performance increases are noticeable during cold snaps (partly for IC effect and mostly because of lower humidity and intake temps) so I figure the fogger will be a worthwhile addition. I dont know that I would have bought a Cryo2 or N-tercooler kit or anything, but I had the parts lying around so I figured, why not.

If you guys are really interested in this I will post back more detailed driving reviews when I get everything together and running. Since I recently lost the waterpump though it hasnt quite been on the front burner.

Heres some pics of what I've got so far:











For the record, im pretty savvy and fearless when it comes to nitrous. Ultimately though I decided this was the best way to go as my Audi is fairly valuable to me.

 

Actually while reviewing that last post I just had a vision on how to use the 6x8 (which turned out closer to 6x9 after careful bending) rail instead of building another one.

Instead of a 2 dimensional square rail, I turned it 90 degrees CCW and bent it into a 6x8 3d cradle that sprays the full length of the side runners as well as a cross-section of the core. It will fit perfectly and simpifly mounting totwo 8" pieces ofwire coat hanger and a couple metal zip strips,

Wonder why I didnt think of that sooner.

[IMG]local://upfiles/19618/D3A101265A2E4BF9BDFE1623E2EF3555.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/19618/BFB90819F4004E78AD790658709723F8.jpg[/IMG]

 

NICE Job, I like your hand work. I hope I can do something like that, couse most of my stuff functions, but doesnt look. I am missing the creativity