Hi everyone,
This one's long so please bear with me.

Just took my 2004 B6 S4 to the track this weekend(putnam park) for the first time, and it was an absolutely terrible experience. The brakes are upgraded to hawk hps pads and motul brake fluid, but I still experienced severe brake fade. What's worse, my all season tires got shredded. Ok, I thought because they're all seasons. I then replaced the wheels/tires with Nitto NT-01 R compounds(225/40/18) on Enkei J10's. At 42 psi cold(45 being the max), the front left tire(the most stressed tire on this course) got shredded down to the cords. This was the 2nd session out and these tires are supposed to last 6 track days. My car is aligned to a very slightly agressive setup.

After talking with the racing experts at the track, it seems that the tires are simply overwhelmed by the weight of the car. Ditto for the brakes.

Which brings me to my questions. What competition tire can stand up to repeated heavy track use with this car? What is the cheapest way to make my brakes not fail at half of the corners on the track?

Additionally, since the problem lies in the weight, what kind of weight reduction can I do? How much does each seat weigh?

Thanks in advance!!

 

I've had the same issue with brake fade on my B5 and I plan to get some ceramic pads, new fluid with a higher viscosity, and possibly some over sized rotors to expand the surface area which allows the heat to escape.

I am surprised that the Nitto's didn't hold up better. I would see if Nitto makes the tire in a harder compound.

I've taken out the back seats and trunk liner in my B5 and I definitely felt a difference in understeer. The seats weigh maybe 40-50 pounds and the trunk floor is a huge sheet of 3/4 inch MDF that weighs about 40 pounds as well. Take out the spare tire and you'll save over 100 pounds in total weight (I'm guessing the B6 has the same materials so the weight difference between them isn't much different).

What part of the tires gets shredded a lot? I'm wondering if you invested in some roll bars to help stabilize the chassis, there wouldn't be as much pressure on certain wheels through the corner. And you may wanna reduce the psi a bit, I usually run 38 all around.

 

Hi!
Thanks for the advice. I've already taken out the spare and rear trunk mat. The mat was only a couple of pounds though. The shredding was on the very outside edge of the front left tire, which would probably indicate tire roll. 8 out of 10 turns on this track are right handers, so the front left gets a lot of abuse. Still, this much wear is unacceptable.The guys at the track told me to up the psi. The max is 45, and it goes up to over 60 hot. I'm scared I might blow the tire. So right now I'm wondering if spending money on this car for track use was a big mistake. I think the first thing on my todo list is remove the seats like you said. Still, I'm wondering if 100 pounds is going to make all that much difference.

Thanks!

 

i definitely felt a difference after the weight was taken out of the back of my car, there isn't much back there to begin with since the weight is more front biased.

if this is your track car, have you thought about new front seats? you can easily save another 100 or more by getting some bucket seats.

also look into a battery relocation kit for the trunk.

EDIT: if you don't care about road drive-ability much, a moon roof delete with a plexi-glass insert would save a good amount of weight as well

 

Hi Mott,
Just finished another day. Destroyed yet another NT-01. Tire pressure was 45 psi cold, and even with that I had severe tire roll, all the way down to the Nitto logo on the sidewall. It did last a little better with the higher pressure though. The guys on track said to keep going higher, that anything lower would cause it to fail sooner. In the end the tire split. I've taken out the rear seats and trunk insulation. Total weight loss is 79 pounds. I'm taking out the front passenger seat and installing a racing seat for the driver's side. I think I'll get an aggressive inward camber alignment done, and run street tires from now on. It looks like the R compounds get chewed up way too fast.

 

sounds like a good plan, the camber adjustment will definitely help if your tires are getting shredded on the outsides more

 

ok, so i'm experiencing the same thing, although i'm doing better and better each time out.

i am using Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on 19" rims with the same heavy tire wear issues. however, i've had pretty good success with alignment and cooling air changes.

first, i had the front toe-in reduced to a 1 degree. that definitely helped reduce 'tire scrub'. i also (just yesterday) installed some Stern adjustable control arms that will allow me to easily change my camber settings for track use, then reset camber back to stock for daily use. without the adjustable arms, sufficient camber simply can't be set. but i think this will result in faster lap times, but i'm not sure how this will help my brake and tire wear.

probably more importantly, i ran some cooling ducts from the front grill (cold air) to the front brake calipers, as i believe that HEAT is your biggest enemy. i didn't get enough cooling to fix my brake overheating issues, but it did do a great job keeping the tires cooler. i think the biggest effect on tire wear is the fact that the brakes cook, and in turn cook the tires causing high performance track tires to melt under the extreme heat. i was experiencing the same type of temp change in my tires until i did this. now i'm going out at 37-39 pounds COLD, which results in perfect 46-47 degrees HOT. DO NOT OVERINFLATE YOUR TIRES. Fix the problem correctly, or simply back off (which i can never seem to do once i get to the track!).

And, lastly, as someone else mentioned, i think a rear sway bar will help turn the car better, reducing the stress on the left front. i just put an HR bar in the car, but won't be back to the track until mid-July. i'll let you know how that goes!

 

i'm having bad issues with nitto tires as well.... 235/35/19 INVO... on my gallardo wheels.... i often drive hard through countless canyon roads in my area and these tires keep developing bubles large and small on the INNER side wall.... i'm assuming its tire separation from a sh!tty tire but nitto says i must be hitting pot holes.... and i'll say, i'm pretty good at avoiding pot holes with lamborghini wheels on my ride....


the tires grip and feel great.... just aren't lasting more than 5,000 miles for me....


...looking for a better tire myself