I have begun to buy parts for my next build and am debating going with the 2.0 over the stock 1.8. I have a couple different turbo options currently availible but I want to go with a setup that is still daily drivable so naturely the extra displacement will help spool a larger turbo. Turbos I already have parts for are:

GT2571 (basically a GT2871R but with a smaller turbine and no ball bearings)
T3T4 57 trim 400+ awhp
T3T4 60-1 450+ awhp (very similar to the GT3582)
TD05H small 16G 300+ awhp
TD05H 18G 350 awhp


I am also considering selling these and buying a GT3071R or maybe even GT3076R. The GT3076R is almost identical to the T3T4 57 trim except the GT has ball bearing and the 57 trim will actually make more total whp. My major concern with all of these options is spool and throttle response. I want something that will make optimal whp levels and still maintain the stock trans and drivetrain.

I have been told that the 57 trim is at the limits of daily drivable setups as they spool a bit slow. The 60-1 is not going to spool lightening fast either. Whatever setup I go with I want to make atleast 14psi by 4500 RPM.

Does anyone have any data regarding any or all of these turbos? What is the safe limit of the stock drivetrain with an upgraded clutch and flywheel? I am also considering the V6 tranny as an upgrade to the redonkulously short geared stock setup; are there any issues with running hp through that trans as well?

 

Take it you gave up on your K04 build?

 

x2

Plus I wouldnt go with any of those and would pick up a comp triplex turbo, or even better an EFR. I would be looking for something that flows as much as a 3071 or 3076. Perfect sized turbos for a 2.0

 

Oh no, I'm working on cnc'n the adapter right now so it will literally bolt on the stock manifold. I'm then going to adapt the dp and try to figure out tuning solution. There is another option that would be a direct bolt on that makes over 350whp in the ms3 that is an upgraded k04 with a billet compressor.

The T3T4 57 trim is almost identical to the gt3076r. It spools slightly slower but makes more hp on the top end. The options I listed are turbo I already have and honestly I'm considering the td05 18g as they spool extremely fast but I'm hoping to make a lil more awhp then what it is rated for.

This 2.0 setup is not going in till summer. I'm just researching and I'm going to start buying when I find good deals.

I'm not a big fan of comp turbos.

 

Why is that? You're the first person I've heard say that.

 

I guess that is not a 100% accurate statement. My "opinion" is that there entry level turbos are nothing more knock offs of Garrett turbos which puts them in a similiar position as the dreaded eGay turd-blos, but better. However like the Egay turd-blos the parts are still sourced from CHINA, just like Precision entry and Turbonetics. These turbos are simply remakes of Garretts stuff since the patent rights ran out long ago. In all honesty I can buy the same parts for the tnry level turbos and build them for less then $250 a piece.

The triplex is no more special then a Garrett dual ceramic ball bearing and in my "opinion" the extra set of bearings is simply adding another part for failure. The entire thought process of adding a third set of bearings defeats the poit of using ball bearings in the first place. You use ball bearings to eliminate the thrust bearing which causes the majority of drag in a journal bearing turbo and also the ball bearings are a far superior thrust baring bearing. If you look at the turbine sizes in turbos right after ball bearings were first offered you will notice how much smaller they are in comparison to the compressors. Then compare that compressor to its older counterpart and compare it to their turbines. A good example is the GT3076R and the T3T4 57 trim. The GT3076R is just a remake of the old 57 trim which dates back into the 70's. Almost identical inducer and exducer dimensions at 57mm inducer and 76 exducer. The turbines though are vastly different.

T3T4 stage III 65mm einducer and 58.1mm exducer
GT3076R 60mm inducer and 55mm exducer

There is no gain in thrust load capabilities since the dual BB will already handle more then the compressor support. Also when I read about the triplex system their selling point was how using BB's reduced drag and are a superior thrust load baring bearing; which they also are. However if you add a 3rd set of bearings to a setup that already has 2 sets you are increasing the friction by 50% which is counter-productive to their entire selling point.

I guess what I am trying to say is that their setups is no more special then anyone's else. If I am going to buy something especially in the cost range the triplex is I would buy a Garrett or an EFR for the simply point that they did the R&D instead of copying someone's elses product and simply doing a lil a design work and throwing in something no one else has. If the triplex was so awesome don't you think the big names in the game would have been on it long ago?

I think as far as tuning goes I am going to go with Maestro. I have been reading on VW Vortex and it seems like the sensible solution given the assortment of turbos I have to chose from. I am honestly surprised not too see a lot more 1.8t motors running a TD05H turbo setups. On the Subaru 2.0 motors they spool extremely fast and have wonderful results making them the obvious choice even over GT series turbos. WIth supporting mods the TD05H 20G can make 18psi-20psi by around 3500-4250RPM's. They can also flow north of 400AWHP. After looking at all of the data I could possibly understand in a 6 hour period I think I have narrowed it down to these turbos.

I am going to start with the K04 882 from the MS3. I may also try the K04 552 as well which is off of the CX-7 and run it with Giac setup I have now. The CX-7 turbo uses a smaller compressor at 42.4mm inducer and 60mm exducer opposed to 46.5mm inducer and 60mm exducer. The CX-7 is still considerably larger then the frankenturbo. Then run the MS3 since t will literally bolt in. Afterwards then the GT2571R, TD05H 18G, TD05H billet 20G (bought the stuff for it today), and then the T3T4 57 trim. I don't have a local dyno but I do have Gtech pro which is fairly accurate. The numbers give you excellent data when compared amongst themself and ran in the exact same manner just as is dyno numbers compared from the same exact dyno. I will run all of them with the same supporting mods to be fair. It will be fun to compare to the K04 552 and 882 to the K04 015 that is already on the car.

I know most is going to hate the Gtech idea but I am HOURS from the closest AWD dyno. I have actually used the Gtech before and it produced numbers that were within 3% of the actual dyno's readings with peak whp and wtq and was within 5% across 90% of the entire graph. The only area that it is was off considerably (more then 10%) was in the low end right after acceleration.

 

I'm actually really interested in the 18g and the 20g. I havent seen any one run one on a 1.8t.

 

i'm willing to bet someone has, but who? Turbochargers

 

I know someone has as I saw the dyno on vortex. My point of running a 18G or the 20G is that they are between a T28 and T3T4 in size. They actually respond more like a T28 but flow similiar to the smaller sized T3T4, like the 50 trim. Actually from the dyno's I have seen the TD05H spools faster then the GT2871R on the DSM equipped cars.

I can talk about numbers all day but seeing them actually compared will give you a better idea.

Left to right:

GT2554R turbine and compressor with GT2871R compressor at its end
TD05H turbine and 18G compressor
T3T4 stage III turbine with 57 trim compressor
T4 P trim and 60-1 compressor
GT4202 turbine and compressor




This is a set of wheels left to right:

GT2554 turbine with compressor and a GT2871R or 3071R compressor in front
TD05H turbine in the middle with 18G compressor in front
T3T4 stage III with 57 trim in front and 60-1 in the rear





This is a closeup of just the turbines:

Left to right:

TD05H
GT25
T3T4 stage III

As you can clearly see the TD05H is right between the GT25 and T3T4 stageIII. Another interesting tidbit is that the TD05H turbine is over 20 years old and is still used in turbos built everyday for factory equipped vehicles. Garret has long since moved on from the T series to the newer GT series even though the majority of its bit are very similiar. There is also the TD04 line that Mitsu makes and consequently I also have 19T that could easily be a bolt in addition with its T25 and T3 style turbo bolt patterns (some use the Mitsu pattern as well). I have seen 19T dyno's on 1.8 liter setups make 360awtq and a flat 300 awhp from 3K-7K. It is actually quite weird as I have never seen a dyno where the whp is flat; it is typically the torque that is flat.

Here is another good compressor comparison.




Something else worth noting about the TD05H stuff is the size of its stub shaft where the compressor slides over and attaches. It uses a 6.5mm opposed to the smaller 6mm of the GT2554- GT3071 and the T3 and T4 6.35mm. The added weight is of no major significance as it is situated closer to the rotating center (actually right dead center). What makes this special is that it makes it very difficult to bend. I have seen numerous turbos with bent shafts just from people trying to loosen them as they incredibly easy to bend. The K04 stuff is 5mm which you can bend with finger.

Another thing is the TD05H shaft is shorter and keeps the load of the wheels closer to the bearing which supports it.

As far as journal bearing turbos go they are pretty damn good.

 

Here is some K03 and K04 compressors as well to compare to the others. This is not my personal photo:



Here is another photo of small 16G compressor, T3 60 trim compressor, and GT2560R compressor. Notice they all have the exact same dimensions (inducer 46.5mm and exducer 60mm). I am actually thinking these dimensions are some sort of club or racing affiliation standard since they are so many turbos that use these dimensions on the compressor size. A few others are the VF43 line of turbos on the STi, TD04 19T, T28 that came on the GTiR blue bird, GT2860R (note there 3 different sized GT2860R turbos, the K04 882, and I am sure a couple others that I am forgetting.