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K04 Questions

  #1  
Old 10-29-2012, 05:04 PM
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Default K04 Questions

Hey guys,

where's the cheapest place to get a genuine bw K04-015 for my 98 1.8t? Also do i need new oil lines for that? saw on chaos's 1.8t upgrade newbie guide that you do. which ones? i'm going to go pc16 any other recommendations? will get a fmic soon, afpr, and injectors and of course the tune.

thanks.
 
  #2  
Old 10-29-2012, 09:05 PM
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Going with a genuine BW K04 is not a very cost-effective way to make power. For roughly the same price as a genuine K04 you can get a FrankenTurbo kit, which will hit boost as early as a K04 (if not earlier), but make higher power and torque.

Unless you're willing to buy a used one... then a genuine K04 can be a good way to go.

For the oil line situation: IMO reusing your current oil drain line should be fine if it's not leaking, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to let Seafoam sit in it overnight to clean as much crap out as possible. For the feed line I'd recommend getting a stainless braided kit, like this one:
Oil Feed Kit - Audi/VW 1.8T (B5/B6/058/06A)
That's what I run. My kit for whatever reason didn't come with the adapter for the oil supply (the one that goes into the oil cooler) so I had to buy that separately since their customer service sucks. In any case this route is a lot cheaper than buying a new OEM oil feed line, and it's far easier to work with a stainless line than the OEM oil feed line.
 
  #3  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:36 AM
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metalman --- i know we talked a bit earlier on your thread.
now is decision time for me haha.
i know you recommend FT, but it just seems like k04 is plug n play while the FT isn't. seems like there's a lot of tweaking involved just to squeeze an extra 20-30hp.. not to mention i really don't want to have to go with 440s or 630s if this thing is gonna be my DD for the next 5+ yrs. (i'm only at 49k miles )

but,,,, nows the time to convince me once and for all cuz i will be buying for sure in the next month.
I don't want to have to mess with it, take logs etc and retune it once i get it. and i remember something about a gasket that isn't a perfect match too (maybe FT to cat?). however i haven't ever ruled it out completely.

i will be installing myself, and just would rather have the safe, easy route and something RELIABLE because this car isnt going be sold for a while...

thanks again.
 
  #4  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:38 AM
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by the way... what exactly are the figures were talking about with FT? i heard 280hp? never heard any torque numbers tho.... the k04 pc16 package is advertising 295tq! not to the wheels of course.
 
  #5  
Old 10-30-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MyA4Mobs View Post
metalman --- i know we talked a bit earlier on your thread.
now is decision time for me haha.
i know you recommend FT, but it just seems like k04 is plug n play while the FT isn't. seems like there's a lot of tweaking involved just to squeeze an extra 20-30hp.. not to mention i really don't want to have to go with 440s or 630s if this thing is gonna be my DD for the next 5+ yrs. (i'm only at 49k miles )

but,,,, nows the time to convince me once and for all cuz i will be buying for sure in the next month.
I don't want to have to mess with it, take logs etc and retune it once i get it. and i remember something about a gasket that isn't a perfect match too (maybe FT to cat?). however i haven't ever ruled it out completely.

i will be installing myself, and just would rather have the safe, easy route and something RELIABLE because this car isnt going be sold for a while...

thanks again.
The K04 could certainly be more plug-and-play, considering that it sounds like you'd reuse the stock exhaust manifold, intercooler, etc. The FT exhaust manifold adds a lot of extra time on the install because it's a fair amount more challenging to fit onto the engine than the stock exhaust mani.

The "extra" tweaking involved really isn't necessary. I kinda enjoy doing it, and also happen to be a bit of a control freak, while being a mechanical engineer... so I can't help but to get more involved than necessary. And now I feel like I've got everything figured out for the most part.

That includes the gasket issue I've had. The issue happens to be that the exhaust port on the exhaust manifold and turbo not don't quite line up with the hole on the gasket. The ports line up with each other just fine, though. So every time I put in a new gasket (it's happened way more than I'd like to admit) I simply cut off the raised portion of the gasket and install it. On top of that I use an 034 Motorsport turbo locking tab to keep the studs/nuts from backing off. This setup works just fine for me now.

It seems like I'm the ONLY person who has reported the gasket issue. Doug (FT owner) checked one of his in-stock turbos and it didn't have this problem.

How come you don't want to go with 440 or 630cc injectors? The 630cc United Motorsport tune (base file) I run is advertised to be compatible with just about any turbo, whether it be a stock K03, a K04, or something like a GT3076R. It has excellent driveability (possibly better than stock) and on the highway at 70mph I still get 30mpg (~32mpg @ 65mph). Probably would get even more with a K03.

Reliability hasn't been a problem for me since things have been figured out. In fact I hardly work on my car anymore, except for interior and exterior stuff.

Originally Posted by MyA4Mobs View Post
by the way... what exactly are the figures were talking about with FT? i heard 280hp? never heard any torque numbers tho.... the k04 pc16 package is advertising 295tq! not to the wheels of course.
Different people have gotten different numbers with the FT. Seems like 220whp/270ft-lbs is what you can expect with an adequate FMIC, exhaust, tune, etc. The numbers given for PC-16 are at the crank, and seem a bit exaggerated to me. For reference they would have achieved those numbers with a full exhaust, probably a test pipe, a good FMIC, high-flow air filter (stock airbox or cone filter), etc. In all honesty I don't think the stock MAF housing allows enough air flow to support the numbers they give...
 
  #6  
Old 10-30-2012, 05:01 PM
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I'm very tempted to go this route... I think you told me a while ago but what kind of gas mileage are you getting city? Also you said you think you have it all figured out.. What all did you have to do? I agree though I think I'd be more than lucky to see 200whp with the pc16...
 
  #7  
Old 10-31-2012, 01:12 PM
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I think you'd be lucky to see 190awhp with PC-16/K04.

As for gas mileage, my driving habits are quite conservative, and the FT seems pretty thirsty when going through the gears. In decently congested city driving, I'd probably see ~18mpg average. Normal city driving maybe 21mpg. Keep in mind the more you drive while the engine is cold, the worse gas mileage you're gonna get (so if your commute is 3 miles, half of that or more is gonna be spent with the engine not at operating temp).

Things I figured out...
Don't get any tune with less than 440cc injectors and a 70mm/3in MAF. And don't feel bad paying $600 for a tune. Also keep future upgrades in mind (I went from 315cc, to 440cc, and now at 630cc. I wasted a lot of money on injectors). From experience I'd recommend United Motorsports due to nice driveability and good customer support, and with their AEB 630cc file you can run just about any turbo (K03 up to GT3076R). And 630cc injectors are only $50 each!

Just because the FT whines a bit when after a cold start, that doesn't mean it's bad. I replaced the CHRA on my FT thinking the whine was a sign the bearings were going. Just take it easy while the turbo warms up (I actually try to avoid boost until the engine is at operating temp).

It's a good idea to replace the oil feed line when changing turbos. I think it's an even better (and cheaper) idea to replace the OEM oil feed line with a braided stainless line ($80, PSi Concepts).

When installing the FT turbo and exhaust manifold, it's important to put in the turbo-to-manifold bolts before installing the exhaust manifold. If you're using a locking tab (like the 034 Motorsport locking tab, which I recommend) you'll have to put this on before installing the exhaust mani as well.

Alternatively to using bolts to connect the turbo and exhaust mani, you can use studs and nuts. You can install the stud closest to the head from below the exhaust manifold, so it doesn't need to be put in the exhaust mani prior to installing the exhaust mani (like you would with a bolt). With studs you have to be careful to not let them bottom out in the threads with excessive force, though. (I installed studs with excessive bottoming-out force, and it caused a stud to seize in my turbo... spent 3 hours fixing that).

Use a high-temp anti-seize on the bolts/studs holding the turbo the exhaust manifold. 034 Motorsport sells some good stuff.

Buy a 12mm combination wrench just for installing the exhaust manifold. And if you don't have a Dremel, buy one. It's not easy tightening the nuts that hold the exhaust mani on, and having a wrench you can cut up with a Dremel helps tremendously.

Normally the nuts used to hold the cat to the turbo use a 17mm wrench/socket. If you upgrade to the 034 Motorsport high-flow cat like I did, it's nearly impossible to attach the cat to the turbo while the turbo is in the car. So instead, I install nuts which require a 15mm wrench/socket:
https://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...er=18301737774
They are also self-locking (one-time use) and hold just as well as the OEM ones.

If you're gonna get an FMIC, do it right the first time. My first FMIC really wasn't big enough (but I got it while I still had a K03). So I bought a second one.

In my opinion it's not worth it to run a cone filter while using the FT turbo inlet pipe and turbo. If you do, you're gonna get lots of huffing-and-puffing and air whooshing sounds as the turbo spools up and the DV dumps air (as you shift through the gears). I find this noise to be excessive, so I bought another used airbox and hacked up the lid to fit a 70mm/3in MAF housing (instead of using a 3in MAF with a cone filter, which is the easier solution).

If you're AEB then I'd definitely recommend doing the ICM delete and installing 2.0T coil packs. My plug gap is 0.040"! Idle is very smooth, part throttle feels nice, etc.

Adjustable fuel pressure regulators with a fuel pressure gauge and very handy if you're gonna get into tuning. Fuel pressure gauges in general are handy because they can help diagnose a fuel pump/fuel pump relay/etc issue.

When installing the turbo, chances are you won't be able to re-use the turbo support bracket because the FT exhaust mani causes the turbo to sit slightly lower than the stock exhaust manifold.

^This same deal (lower-sitting turbo) will benefit from deforming the heat shield on the engine mount below the turbo.

When uninstalling and reinstalling the turbo it's easiest to keep the oil drain line attached and remove it when the turbo is off the car. You just have to be careful not to bang it around.

Dropping the AC compressor (removing the belt tensioner + belt, and 4 long screws) really helps to get the turbo in/out of the car.

And there's probably more but that's all my sleep-deprived brain can come up with at the moment.
 
  #8  
Old 10-31-2012, 03:46 PM
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Whats your reasoning for only going FT or K04? Have you considered an eliminator sized turbo?

These will make wayy more power than your standard FT or K04. The best part about them is they still bolt up to your stock manifold and cat.

You can also get pretty good gas mileage out of them too. A turbo that spools later isn't always in boost which means less fuel.

I would definitely figure out your final goal with the car so if in 6 months you decide you want more power you don't have to buy another turbo.

You'll save a ton of money if you figure this out now rather than later.

Good luck!

Jason
 
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:42 AM
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hmmm.. too many options here.
just as i thought i knew what i was going to do, my mind has changed again.
love all of the info for the FT, but why not go GTRS and squeeze a little more power for similar $$? That's my new thought anyways.
I'm still doing my research.
I'm the kind of guy that needs to be positive before i go for anything, especially when talking this kind of coin.

Thanks again for the detailed responses!
 
  #10  
Old 11-03-2012, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MyA4Mobs View Post
love all of the info for the FT, but why not go GTRS and squeeze a little more power for similar $$? That's my new thought anyways.
Same sort of thought has been popping into my head recently too... though the money for a GTRS compared to FT isn't similar unless you get used components. Think: exhaust manifold, turbo inlet pipe, turbo; $250ish, $200ish, $1500ish (respectively). That's pushing $2k vs ~$1100 for FT. Just some food for thought!
 

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