Unitronic vs. APR?
Thread Starter
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1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 98
From: Columbia, MD
RE: Unitronic vs. APR?
ORIGINAL: TPE_A3
Omni,
Are you chipped yet?
If not, it might not hurt to float the idea with your dealer. You could get a sense of their reaction to it. According to some people, some dealers are cool with chips, even to the point where they sell them. Others say no problem until there is a problem(the worst kind) and still others flatly say it voids your warranty.
Still another option is to go with ABT or MTM. In Taiwan, you can buy the A3 flashed by either of these companies and no warranty issues at all. Not sure what the arrangement is in the US. Also, goes without saying that neither are cheap. But when I get my A5 3.0 TDI I will go with
MTM for sure....heard a chipped 3.0 TDI in a Q7......SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Omni,
Are you chipped yet?
If not, it might not hurt to float the idea with your dealer. You could get a sense of their reaction to it. According to some people, some dealers are cool with chips, even to the point where they sell them. Others say no problem until there is a problem(the worst kind) and still others flatly say it voids your warranty.
Still another option is to go with ABT or MTM. In Taiwan, you can buy the A3 flashed by either of these companies and no warranty issues at all. Not sure what the arrangement is in the US. Also, goes without saying that neither are cheap. But when I get my A5 3.0 TDI I will go with
MTM for sure....heard a chipped 3.0 TDI in a Q7......SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I WAS debating if I should make a call to my dealership and be like "hey i bought and used A3 and I'm suspecting it is chipped. Is there way you can find out for me?"
Haha..I like how you're already planning the mods for your future A5. Know any good software engineer positions in taiwan? Maybe I go back to work and bring an A5 w/ me =P
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 321
From:
RE: Unitronic vs. APR?
Actually Omni...while my field is architecture/urban planning....I am close friends with some senior execs at TSMC, Asus, Acer, FoxConn Quanta...if you are serious and know what you are looking for send me a PM and I can pass along your CV. Not sure what the salary would be like...have some ABC friends here doing very well here, others did better Stateside.
Oh, car posts! Chip! Get the damn thing chipped! hahahaha. If you kill the turbo, who cares about warranty? Upgrade to BIGGER turbo! hahaha!
Oh, car posts! Chip! Get the damn thing chipped! hahahaha. If you kill the turbo, who cares about warranty? Upgrade to BIGGER turbo! hahaha!
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 98
From: Columbia, MD
RE: Unitronic vs. APR?
That's awesome! DO tell us the experience when you get it.
I have too many friends getting married this year. Gifts/red bags/bachelor parties are costing my upgrades! =(
I have too many friends getting married this year. Gifts/red bags/bachelor parties are costing my upgrades! =(
Thread Starter
|
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 98
From: Columbia, MD
RE: Unitronic vs. APR?
Talked my dealership this morning about mods and their answer is pretty expected. "If we don't see it, then we don't know about it" (even if they take the car out for a spin). Chipping or whatever has no effect on my audicare services. They'll only be **** about it if something breaks down and if it's caused by my mods.
Doing more research on unitronics stuff. ALmost everyone who got unitronics are GTI/GLI owners. almost there......
Doing more research on unitronics stuff. ALmost everyone who got unitronics are GTI/GLI owners. almost there......
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 63
From:
If Audi catches you with your engine chipper im pretty sure they void the warrenty so that can add up if you get caught. I was leaning twoards APR too but I found out that it is really easy to catch because all the dealer has to do is flip the cruise control and that shows if its chipped with the APR. The most stealthy chip which will probably be undetectable is the Superchip which is a hefty 900$. Im on a lease too and im really giving the chip some thought. And also, if you do decide to get it chipped, make sure you wait until your next service because Audi is upgrading the ECU and it can erase any chip you might have.
good luck!
good luck!
Unitronic is a flashed software... just like APR,GIAC,TAP....
1st Gear
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
There has been lots of misinformation spread in this thread, especially in the email from Ray on page 1. Let me try to clear a few things up.
Software detectability/Stored information
APR software is undetectable at the dealership. Our stock calibration is 100% the OEM calibration that came with your vehicle. If you are in APR stock mode, with security lockout, unless they somehow figure out your pin number (same as trying to figure out someone bank pin number) they absolutely cannot see that you are chipped. No other company offers this and no other company has software as undetectable as ours. We even reset the flash counter to the previous number during flashing. Also, the ECU does not store past boost values. The dealership cannot look up boost levels you achieved in the past.
True remapping/tricking sensors/adaptation
APR has been in the business for quite some time now. We develop our own tools in house and do not rely on third party companies to deliver us code/software/hardware for us to understand where maps are located and how to write new calibrations. We do not 'trick sensors', turn of protection maps, or disable sensors. We rewrite hundreds upon hundreds of maps/tables/variables, etc. We also write software in stages according to your modifications. It's next to impossible to say one company can simply write a tune that adapts for all mods. This is hogwash. Adaptation tables have limitations... for example only so much timing can be pulled before very bad things happen. We do not rely on the limitations of software adaptation to do the tuning for us. Adaptation tables are left with plenty of room to adaptation to changes in environment, elevation, fuel quality, etc but the notion that we create a static tune with no room to adapt for changes is silly.
DSG adaptation
The DSG is unable to shift smoothly once the engine calibrations have changed. Unless calibrations are made in accordance to the way the DSG shifts, it will act strangely at times. APR has specifically identified this and has spent months making everything as smooth as possible.
Number of maps changed
It was stated we change 7 maps and unitronic changes 17. This is incorrect. We change hundreds and hundreds of maps in the med 9 ecu.
Program switching
When you switch programs with APR software, it's like switching operating systems completely. When programs are switched, the ECU is rewritten with an entirely new calibration. We don't only switch out a few maps like some of our competition does. We rewrite the entire calibration (which was stored in the memory on the ECU with significant compression), and then recalculate the digital signature. We don't rely on external hardware to do any of this. We do it all in the software and we can do so because our engineers have detailed knowledge of house the ECU works on an assembly level.
Final Thoughts
One thing many should realize about APR is we are a software and hardware company. We develop hardware and specifically write software to match the modifications we have made to the hardware. There is no need to pick and choose hardware/software and pray everything will work properly because APR has done all of this for you. This is exactly why the Volkswagen Group of America (yes, corporate VW) has chosen APR in the past and continues to work with us in the future. VW Motorsport in Germany even uses our hardware and began to use it after the success of our own GTI race team. The APR race team has helped us push vehicles to destruction in house so no customer ever experiences this on their own vehicle. VW has already made many vehicles with our software and hardware including the 06 R-GTI stage 3, 08 Tiguan 2.0TSI Stage 3, and the 09 SEMA Passat CC 2.0TSI Stage 3. On 2.0TSI with the MED17 ecu most of our competition cannot fully even begin to write stage 1 software for every version of the ECU. We already have big turbo software and hardware and had it back in the summer of 08. That’s no small feat and could not be accomplished without a deep understanding of Motronic chip tuning, software development, and advanced hardware development.
Software detectability/Stored information
APR software is undetectable at the dealership. Our stock calibration is 100% the OEM calibration that came with your vehicle. If you are in APR stock mode, with security lockout, unless they somehow figure out your pin number (same as trying to figure out someone bank pin number) they absolutely cannot see that you are chipped. No other company offers this and no other company has software as undetectable as ours. We even reset the flash counter to the previous number during flashing. Also, the ECU does not store past boost values. The dealership cannot look up boost levels you achieved in the past.
True remapping/tricking sensors/adaptation
APR has been in the business for quite some time now. We develop our own tools in house and do not rely on third party companies to deliver us code/software/hardware for us to understand where maps are located and how to write new calibrations. We do not 'trick sensors', turn of protection maps, or disable sensors. We rewrite hundreds upon hundreds of maps/tables/variables, etc. We also write software in stages according to your modifications. It's next to impossible to say one company can simply write a tune that adapts for all mods. This is hogwash. Adaptation tables have limitations... for example only so much timing can be pulled before very bad things happen. We do not rely on the limitations of software adaptation to do the tuning for us. Adaptation tables are left with plenty of room to adaptation to changes in environment, elevation, fuel quality, etc but the notion that we create a static tune with no room to adapt for changes is silly.
DSG adaptation
The DSG is unable to shift smoothly once the engine calibrations have changed. Unless calibrations are made in accordance to the way the DSG shifts, it will act strangely at times. APR has specifically identified this and has spent months making everything as smooth as possible.
Number of maps changed
It was stated we change 7 maps and unitronic changes 17. This is incorrect. We change hundreds and hundreds of maps in the med 9 ecu.
Program switching
When you switch programs with APR software, it's like switching operating systems completely. When programs are switched, the ECU is rewritten with an entirely new calibration. We don't only switch out a few maps like some of our competition does. We rewrite the entire calibration (which was stored in the memory on the ECU with significant compression), and then recalculate the digital signature. We don't rely on external hardware to do any of this. We do it all in the software and we can do so because our engineers have detailed knowledge of house the ECU works on an assembly level.
Final Thoughts
One thing many should realize about APR is we are a software and hardware company. We develop hardware and specifically write software to match the modifications we have made to the hardware. There is no need to pick and choose hardware/software and pray everything will work properly because APR has done all of this for you. This is exactly why the Volkswagen Group of America (yes, corporate VW) has chosen APR in the past and continues to work with us in the future. VW Motorsport in Germany even uses our hardware and began to use it after the success of our own GTI race team. The APR race team has helped us push vehicles to destruction in house so no customer ever experiences this on their own vehicle. VW has already made many vehicles with our software and hardware including the 06 R-GTI stage 3, 08 Tiguan 2.0TSI Stage 3, and the 09 SEMA Passat CC 2.0TSI Stage 3. On 2.0TSI with the MED17 ecu most of our competition cannot fully even begin to write stage 1 software for every version of the ECU. We already have big turbo software and hardware and had it back in the summer of 08. That’s no small feat and could not be accomplished without a deep understanding of Motronic chip tuning, software development, and advanced hardware development.
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