Advice on buying 98 Audi 2.8 Quattro
#1
01-21-2012, 03:32 PM
Advice on buying 98 Audi 2.8 Quattro
Hi All,
Brand new to this forum and pondering buying a 98 Audi A4 Quattro 5 speed standard with the 2.8 liter V6. It has 162,000 miles and has about everything (heated leather seats, moonroof…). I keep going back an forth on whether to buy it or not depending on who I talk to. Some mechanic friends of mine say stay away from audi’s while other love them. I wonder if the one’s that love them do because it is in their self interest ?!
I took it to an Audi expert and they did a 1 hour check over and the below is what they came up with.
Checked plugs, wires, plus ignition coil and found all to be in new condition.
Found that both valve covers and both cam chain tensioners seals are
leaking fairly badly as well as the rear cam seals are leaking oil.
Checked and found the timing belt looks ok and is tight at this time.
Found both left and right upper control arms have play and will need to be replaced for inspection.
Both front lower forward control arms have loose ball joints.
Front brake hoses are starting to crack and dry rot, front and rear brake rotors have a good amount of rust buildup from sitting and rust ridge building on the outside edges.
Exhaust sleeve clamps are loose and will need to be replaced.
Rear muffler is starting to rust at the pipe flanges but not leaking yet.
Power steering lines are starting to seep where the rubber line meets the steel.
Tires are starting to get weather checked on the side walls.
Right rear coil spring is broken.
This is what I have noted after driving it around for a week.
The check engine light was on solid when I got it but at some point went out. It has since intermittently returned solid and now and then when I start up and hit the gas, it will misfire and the engine light will flash on and off and it will usually catch and fire good after a bit. I think the misfire is when it’s a bit warmer and damp/raining out. I was told it could be a coil pack, a wire, a plug…
Seems to have plenty of power and the clutch seems a little high to me but seems to engage good with no slippage.
Front overhead lights do not work but rear overhead lights do when opening the doors.
Heater does not seem to warm up very well, even on high setting.
Cruise control does not work.
Heated mirrors do not work.
Any advice on the cost of the items I have listed would be greatly appreciated along with where I could get them online. Also any knowledge on the number of hours to do the repairs.
It sat in a garage for a year.
Timing belt and water pump were done at 109,000 miles and it now has 162,000 miles.
Anything else I should check for ?
What would be a fair price for the car as it is ?
Sorry to be long winded and I thank you so much ahead of time for any advice !!
Brand new to this forum and pondering buying a 98 Audi A4 Quattro 5 speed standard with the 2.8 liter V6. It has 162,000 miles and has about everything (heated leather seats, moonroof…). I keep going back an forth on whether to buy it or not depending on who I talk to. Some mechanic friends of mine say stay away from audi’s while other love them. I wonder if the one’s that love them do because it is in their self interest ?!
I took it to an Audi expert and they did a 1 hour check over and the below is what they came up with.
Checked plugs, wires, plus ignition coil and found all to be in new condition.
Found that both valve covers and both cam chain tensioners seals are
leaking fairly badly as well as the rear cam seals are leaking oil.
Checked and found the timing belt looks ok and is tight at this time.
Found both left and right upper control arms have play and will need to be replaced for inspection.
Both front lower forward control arms have loose ball joints.
Front brake hoses are starting to crack and dry rot, front and rear brake rotors have a good amount of rust buildup from sitting and rust ridge building on the outside edges.
Exhaust sleeve clamps are loose and will need to be replaced.
Rear muffler is starting to rust at the pipe flanges but not leaking yet.
Power steering lines are starting to seep where the rubber line meets the steel.
Tires are starting to get weather checked on the side walls.
Right rear coil spring is broken.
This is what I have noted after driving it around for a week.
The check engine light was on solid when I got it but at some point went out. It has since intermittently returned solid and now and then when I start up and hit the gas, it will misfire and the engine light will flash on and off and it will usually catch and fire good after a bit. I think the misfire is when it’s a bit warmer and damp/raining out. I was told it could be a coil pack, a wire, a plug…
Seems to have plenty of power and the clutch seems a little high to me but seems to engage good with no slippage.
Front overhead lights do not work but rear overhead lights do when opening the doors.
Heater does not seem to warm up very well, even on high setting.
Cruise control does not work.
Heated mirrors do not work.
Any advice on the cost of the items I have listed would be greatly appreciated along with where I could get them online. Also any knowledge on the number of hours to do the repairs.
It sat in a garage for a year.
Timing belt and water pump were done at 109,000 miles and it now has 162,000 miles.
Anything else I should check for ?
What would be a fair price for the car as it is ?
Sorry to be long winded and I thank you so much ahead of time for any advice !!
#2
01-21-2012, 03:48 PM
AudiForums WilkommenVagen Direktor
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Western MD USA
Posts: 2,955
with the right care and maintenance the 2.8 will last...well...forever. Sounds like this one has been somewhat neglected. seems like the mechanic that gave you that list of problems knows his stuff. all the things listed are common wear/maintenance items on the Audi.
As far as cost goes, well it really depends on if you are going to do the maintenance work yourself, or have someone do it for you. DIY you are looking at between $1K and $2K to fix just the things on the list (I know that seems like a wide range but there are several variables for part costs and I'm ballparking off the top of my head). Add another $1K or so in labor costs to have a shop do it.
fair price? really depends on what you are willing to pay. without putting eyes on it myself I don't feel like I can give you a reasonable guess
good luck
As far as cost goes, well it really depends on if you are going to do the maintenance work yourself, or have someone do it for you. DIY you are looking at between $1K and $2K to fix just the things on the list (I know that seems like a wide range but there are several variables for part costs and I'm ballparking off the top of my head). Add another $1K or so in labor costs to have a shop do it.
fair price? really depends on what you are willing to pay. without putting eyes on it myself I don't feel like I can give you a reasonable guess
good luck
#3
01-21-2012, 07:00 PM
WOW!
For a split second there I thought you were talking about our 1998 2.8 A4 Quattro (we have it here in the classified section FS) except no one has taken it to a mechanic to check things out and we most certainly don't have that laundry list of things wrong with it!
What you need to know about Audi's: The 2.8 can go indeed go forever almost (easily reaching 300k miles and we even knew of someone with 325k miles as the original owner in Texas) BUT ...and this is the huge BUT: They do well when proper maintenance is done (plus it doesn't hurt to do preventative maintenance on a bunch of 'while your in there' like we did to ours when we got it. SO if you have one that was neglected it isn't a good thing (and Audi's simply don't respond well to lack of maintenance like most Japanese cars that seem to just keep going and going even if you neglect them).
Here is what I can tell you about ours. We did a ton of things to our to get it 100% reliable and we spent well over $2000 on just parts alone with my husband doing all the work himself since he was a mechanic for 13 years (had formerly owned a 2001 S4) and knew what he was doing (I know he kept praising how nice it is to work on this 2.8 vs. his former S4..haha
For example: G12 alone isn't cheap and we felt it best not to cut corners when replacing the coolant. Coilpack (factory only way to go IMHO) was $325, All the major tune components alone cost $550 in parts (timing belt, water pump, thermostat, tensioners, drive belt, spark plugs, wires, etc.) Rear wheel bearing and hub set us back another $200 and the list goes on and on. our CEL light went on and it turned out to be a $190 emissions related part that had to do with gasoline fumes (I keep forgetting what that darn thing is called but it has to do with making sure gas fumes don't escape but has nothing to do with proper operation of the car other than passing emissions test) I did the math once and stopped when I got up to $8000 spent on our Audi that we got over thanksgiving in 2010 because I honestly just didn't want to know after that!
So anyway,
With that huge list of stuff wrong, (not to mention the stuff you don't even yet know about) I know my husband would walk away (as we walked away from several audi a4s with lists shorter than that because it wasn't worth the time and effort from our standpoint)
We got an Audi with very decent maintenance and a stack of receipts (kept up to date on maintenance) YET we still spent a ton of money. Granted a lot of it was not needed yet BUT we just felt best for the 'while your in there' and preventative, etc. PLUS my husband feels that if someone else does the work, he can't be 100% sure it was really all done and done right so it makes him feel better to replace a bunch of major maintenance items himself and have piece of mind.
If you wanted more details, I'm happy to share so just ask (send me a PM)
What we noticed when we were looking is there is a huge range of pricing for used A4s and realized very quickly once seeing them in person is there is a reason one B5 A4 is $1500, while another is $3500 and yet another is $5000 or more (you get the idea anyway).
Heck we saw one A4 that seemed like almost everything we really wanted to avoid having to do was done but then there were still some items needed that quickly added up to over $3000 that made us walk away (stuff like needing new tires due to riding on almost bald ones, heater core rusted shut/not functional or even connected, A/C compressor shot/disconnected, needed a new battery, etc.)
I guess if you can DIY, have access to invoice or cost pricing on parts and/or love to work on cars yourself, as well as have a place to work on it --> go for the one that needs a ton of work with an offer around $1200 to $1500 and take pleasure in all the work you will have to do on it to get it wonderful again but if you have to pay someone to do all the work, RUN AWAY and run away FAST because I can promise that one you are looking at will set you back at minimum another $4500 paid to your mechanic to fix that laundry list of stuff!
For a split second there I thought you were talking about our 1998 2.8 A4 Quattro (we have it here in the classified section FS) except no one has taken it to a mechanic to check things out and we most certainly don't have that laundry list of things wrong with it!
What you need to know about Audi's: The 2.8 can go indeed go forever almost (easily reaching 300k miles and we even knew of someone with 325k miles as the original owner in Texas) BUT ...and this is the huge BUT: They do well when proper maintenance is done (plus it doesn't hurt to do preventative maintenance on a bunch of 'while your in there' like we did to ours when we got it. SO if you have one that was neglected it isn't a good thing (and Audi's simply don't respond well to lack of maintenance like most Japanese cars that seem to just keep going and going even if you neglect them).
Here is what I can tell you about ours. We did a ton of things to our to get it 100% reliable and we spent well over $2000 on just parts alone with my husband doing all the work himself since he was a mechanic for 13 years (had formerly owned a 2001 S4) and knew what he was doing (I know he kept praising how nice it is to work on this 2.8 vs. his former S4..haha
For example: G12 alone isn't cheap and we felt it best not to cut corners when replacing the coolant. Coilpack (factory only way to go IMHO) was $325, All the major tune components alone cost $550 in parts (timing belt, water pump, thermostat, tensioners, drive belt, spark plugs, wires, etc.) Rear wheel bearing and hub set us back another $200 and the list goes on and on. our CEL light went on and it turned out to be a $190 emissions related part that had to do with gasoline fumes (I keep forgetting what that darn thing is called but it has to do with making sure gas fumes don't escape but has nothing to do with proper operation of the car other than passing emissions test) I did the math once and stopped when I got up to $8000 spent on our Audi that we got over thanksgiving in 2010 because I honestly just didn't want to know after that!
So anyway,
With that huge list of stuff wrong, (not to mention the stuff you don't even yet know about) I know my husband would walk away (as we walked away from several audi a4s with lists shorter than that because it wasn't worth the time and effort from our standpoint)
We got an Audi with very decent maintenance and a stack of receipts (kept up to date on maintenance) YET we still spent a ton of money. Granted a lot of it was not needed yet BUT we just felt best for the 'while your in there' and preventative, etc. PLUS my husband feels that if someone else does the work, he can't be 100% sure it was really all done and done right so it makes him feel better to replace a bunch of major maintenance items himself and have piece of mind.
If you wanted more details, I'm happy to share so just ask (send me a PM)
What we noticed when we were looking is there is a huge range of pricing for used A4s and realized very quickly once seeing them in person is there is a reason one B5 A4 is $1500, while another is $3500 and yet another is $5000 or more (you get the idea anyway).
Heck we saw one A4 that seemed like almost everything we really wanted to avoid having to do was done but then there were still some items needed that quickly added up to over $3000 that made us walk away (stuff like needing new tires due to riding on almost bald ones, heater core rusted shut/not functional or even connected, A/C compressor shot/disconnected, needed a new battery, etc.)
I guess if you can DIY, have access to invoice or cost pricing on parts and/or love to work on cars yourself, as well as have a place to work on it --> go for the one that needs a ton of work with an offer around $1200 to $1500 and take pleasure in all the work you will have to do on it to get it wonderful again but if you have to pay someone to do all the work, RUN AWAY and run away FAST because I can promise that one you are looking at will set you back at minimum another $4500 paid to your mechanic to fix that laundry list of stuff!
Last edited by ibid; 01-21-2012 at 07:12 PM.
#4
01-21-2012, 07:20 PM
oh, forgot to mention, the lack of heat is a pretty common B5 problem (do a search) probably due to rust build up in your heater core. Although the heater core isn't all that insanely expensive (around $140 IIRC) labor to replace it is insane because the entire dash has to be removed to replace it!
And the clutch engaging high I'd worry about needing a replacement clutch if there is no recent receipt/proof of clutch replacement (prepare to pay another $750-$800 to an independent mechanic for this and over $1200 to an Audi dealer IIRC)
Your comment on mechanics loving Audi's might well be self-serving because they know you will bring them a lot of good business!
And the clutch engaging high I'd worry about needing a replacement clutch if there is no recent receipt/proof of clutch replacement (prepare to pay another $750-$800 to an independent mechanic for this and over $1200 to an Audi dealer IIRC)
Your comment on mechanics loving Audi's might well be self-serving because they know you will bring them a lot of good business!
Last edited by ibid; 01-21-2012 at 07:23 PM.
#5
01-21-2012, 09:13 PM
ok... i have a 96 2.8. i have MOST of the problems you have. my cam seals aren't leaking, but the valve covers are. i just did the timing belt like 10k miles ago, thermostat wasn't changed in that because the shop i've been going to for 10 years apparently sucks. so i will be micro managing them from now on. so i just did the thermostat, took the whole thing apart to make sure everything else was changed.
if you want this car, seriously consider the amount of time (or money if you don't do it yourself) you will be putting into it. that's a lot of work to be done. i'm not saying its not possible, i've done most of the things on your list, my rear coils just snapped, gonna have to do that soon. sounds like i'm going to need a ps pump as well.
with all that wrong with the car, it's gonna cost way more to fix than it is worth if you don't do the work yourself, and in the end, how much is your time worth? that's really what it boils down to. its not an easy car to work on, i'll tell you that much. it's no jeep. but it's definitely doable with limited experience. i'm not a mechanic, but i tend to get by. i fix more than a break lol... just be sure to become an alcoholic, and maybe get a few rides to work once in a while when you can't close the car up when the sun goes down on sunday because you had to special order what you would think was a common part from the auto parts store on saturday, because nobody stocks the few random parts that you tend to always need. i'm not bitter.....just my experience haha.
so yeah, whats the car worth? well.... that depends on how much you want to invest in it after purchase. i'd say no more than a grand. dude, i see 02 a4's going for like 4k now on craigslist. seriously, i'd probably think a little newer, put the money into the age of the car instead of repairing an old wreck.
if you want this car, seriously consider the amount of time (or money if you don't do it yourself) you will be putting into it. that's a lot of work to be done. i'm not saying its not possible, i've done most of the things on your list, my rear coils just snapped, gonna have to do that soon. sounds like i'm going to need a ps pump as well.
with all that wrong with the car, it's gonna cost way more to fix than it is worth if you don't do the work yourself, and in the end, how much is your time worth? that's really what it boils down to. its not an easy car to work on, i'll tell you that much. it's no jeep. but it's definitely doable with limited experience. i'm not a mechanic, but i tend to get by. i fix more than a break lol... just be sure to become an alcoholic, and maybe get a few rides to work once in a while when you can't close the car up when the sun goes down on sunday because you had to special order what you would think was a common part from the auto parts store on saturday, because nobody stocks the few random parts that you tend to always need. i'm not bitter.....just my experience haha.
so yeah, whats the car worth? well.... that depends on how much you want to invest in it after purchase. i'd say no more than a grand. dude, i see 02 a4's going for like 4k now on craigslist. seriously, i'd probably think a little newer, put the money into the age of the car instead of repairing an old wreck.
#7
01-22-2012, 09:14 AM
^^^ that is true. Put the car in 5th at about 30-35mph and floor it - if it doesn't slip then, it's fine. The broken rear coils are common. Valve cover gasket leaks are common and easy changes. Heat issue - check coolant level first, then search for "bleeding heater core" - air trapped in there, even a small bubble, is enough to keep it from working.
#8
01-22-2012, 09:34 AM
Sounds like my 150,000 mile car a year ago before I spent $2700 on parts, service, and maintenance. Did all the work myself except for pressing in wheel bearings and welding in a new flex pipe.
The car probably needs rear wheel bearings on both sides, if they haven't been replaced.
Knowing what's wrong with the car, if you could get it for a song -- about $1000-$2000 -- and have time to do the repairs yourself, go for it. If the seller wants anything near bluebook value, let it go.
Here's an example of what to expect, to get the car to 100% mechnical:
PARTS
$88.50 differential gear oil
$13.00 cabin filter
$22.00 coolant temperature sensor
$6.00 keyfob batteries
$20.99 (2x) Philips Crystal Vision H7 bulbs
$49.99 breather hose
$29.99 suction pump
$44.00 valve cover gasket
$2.99 stereo removal tool
$57 rear wheel bearing
$69 rear wheel bearing housing
$68 serpentine belt and tensioner kit
$10 wheel center caps
$45 mirror
$15 front bumper mini grill
$97 rear wheel bearing right
$125 cam tensioner gasket and seal kit
$345 timing belt kit
$0 snub mount
$60 sunroof
$44 battery cover, engine cover clips, seat wobble repair kit
$10 belly pan hardware
$180 control arm kit
$27 wiper blades
$40 key fob replacement
$60 front license plate frame
= ~$1600
SERVICE
$37 bearing press
$22 balance rear tires
$0.00 rotate tires
$99 balance and mount winter tires
$79 alignment
$249 replace driver side flex pipe
= $480
MISC
$140 oil and oil filter changes
$30 techron
$27 wiper blades
$16 hydraulic brake fluid
$30 spark plugs
$160 special tools
$12 wiper fluid
$38 timing belt tool rental
$10 gear oil
= ~$470
The car probably needs rear wheel bearings on both sides, if they haven't been replaced.
Knowing what's wrong with the car, if you could get it for a song -- about $1000-$2000 -- and have time to do the repairs yourself, go for it. If the seller wants anything near bluebook value, let it go.
Here's an example of what to expect, to get the car to 100% mechnical:
PARTS
$88.50 differential gear oil
$13.00 cabin filter
$22.00 coolant temperature sensor
$6.00 keyfob batteries
$20.99 (2x) Philips Crystal Vision H7 bulbs
$49.99 breather hose
$29.99 suction pump
$44.00 valve cover gasket
$2.99 stereo removal tool
$57 rear wheel bearing
$69 rear wheel bearing housing
$68 serpentine belt and tensioner kit
$10 wheel center caps
$45 mirror
$15 front bumper mini grill
$97 rear wheel bearing right
$125 cam tensioner gasket and seal kit
$345 timing belt kit
$0 snub mount
$60 sunroof
$44 battery cover, engine cover clips, seat wobble repair kit
$10 belly pan hardware
$180 control arm kit
$27 wiper blades
$40 key fob replacement
$60 front license plate frame
= ~$1600
SERVICE
$37 bearing press
$22 balance rear tires
$0.00 rotate tires
$99 balance and mount winter tires
$79 alignment
$249 replace driver side flex pipe
= $480
MISC
$140 oil and oil filter changes
$30 techron
$27 wiper blades
$16 hydraulic brake fluid
$30 spark plugs
$160 special tools
$12 wiper fluid
$38 timing belt tool rental
$10 gear oil
= ~$470
Last edited by redmond1501; 01-22-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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