MetalMan's 1.8T FrankenTurbo (F4H-L, F21) Build Thread
1st Gear
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 11
For all you do...
Thank-you for all your time on this thread MetalMan. Have followed in your footsteps to some degree, diverting and prioritizing based on funds, and the desire to try something out myself.
Today I am at this point:
2003 A4 B6 1.8TQ5M with Motoza 1+ (550cc), stock turbo, K&N panel, 034 HFC, Forge 008, N75E, Stage 2 (S4 Clutchmasters) clutch, one step cooler copper plugs @ .24, Apikol Snub, and 034 street density motor mounts.
If you notice I have two or three missing esentials, fmic, exhaust, and turbo kit.
I bought the Snow Performance Stage 2 WMI kit, and want to run it on MAP instead of MAF (the controller in the kit can be selected for either) instead of installing an fmic right now.
In talking with dave @ Motoza he was saying this should have additional benefits I would not see with just the fmic, for about the same price. He said he has noticed a -20c drop in IAT with the kit, and with 50/50 water/methanol I should be getting 113 octane on 91 pump which will allow him to go from 15 psi, to 20 psi, and it should not pull nearly as much timing as it does now with the higher IAT I have at 15 psi and no fmic.
So, I went to a chemical distributor in Santa Ana (I know you are local to me) and I bought four gallons of 100% technical grade methanol ($54 for case of 4 gals) and Dave sent me a new tune file earlier this week for the WMI.
I am going to install the kit and tune this weekend and hopefully will have some good news to report.
If the wmi kit helps with timing and heatsoak, my next step is the biggest exhaust I can afford to get me ready for the FrankenTurbo order. I wanted to get all the other parts in my build settled, before the FT order and reading your thread over the past couple months has really helped me have a vantage point of trial and error to help me decide where to focus now, and how to "hopefully" build a good foundation for the next layers to be built upon.
Thanks again for all your time. I am sure there are many here that you have helped, whether they remember to drop you a thank-you or not, it is all good info.
Dan in Irvine.
Today I am at this point:
2003 A4 B6 1.8TQ5M with Motoza 1+ (550cc), stock turbo, K&N panel, 034 HFC, Forge 008, N75E, Stage 2 (S4 Clutchmasters) clutch, one step cooler copper plugs @ .24, Apikol Snub, and 034 street density motor mounts.
If you notice I have two or three missing esentials, fmic, exhaust, and turbo kit.
I bought the Snow Performance Stage 2 WMI kit, and want to run it on MAP instead of MAF (the controller in the kit can be selected for either) instead of installing an fmic right now.
In talking with dave @ Motoza he was saying this should have additional benefits I would not see with just the fmic, for about the same price. He said he has noticed a -20c drop in IAT with the kit, and with 50/50 water/methanol I should be getting 113 octane on 91 pump which will allow him to go from 15 psi, to 20 psi, and it should not pull nearly as much timing as it does now with the higher IAT I have at 15 psi and no fmic.
So, I went to a chemical distributor in Santa Ana (I know you are local to me) and I bought four gallons of 100% technical grade methanol ($54 for case of 4 gals) and Dave sent me a new tune file earlier this week for the WMI.
I am going to install the kit and tune this weekend and hopefully will have some good news to report.
If the wmi kit helps with timing and heatsoak, my next step is the biggest exhaust I can afford to get me ready for the FrankenTurbo order. I wanted to get all the other parts in my build settled, before the FT order and reading your thread over the past couple months has really helped me have a vantage point of trial and error to help me decide where to focus now, and how to "hopefully" build a good foundation for the next layers to be built upon.
Thanks again for all your time. I am sure there are many here that you have helped, whether they remember to drop you a thank-you or not, it is all good info.
Dan in Irvine.
Last edited by DanSoCalMan; Nov 7, 2014 at 05:07 PM. Reason: mis-spellings...
1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8
From: Tucson, AZ
If/when you modify the stock airbox lid, I would recommend adding some sort of bellmouth (AKA velocity stack or venturi) inlet adapter to the MAF housing, like the stock MAF housing uses. If I do this to my stock airbox lid I'll use an aluminum 3" tube and cut a bunch of slots into one end and "banana" them to form the right shape. Then tape over these with aluminum foil duct tape to smooth it. Like what I did to my old car:
To be honest I don't see a hot airbox snorkel contributing much to IATs. It pulls in fresh air, and being plastic it will only have a minor impact on the temperature of the air flowing through it.
The turbo will have the greatest effect on IATs of course, hence the need for an intercooler.
I'm curious if you can log before/after IAT temps using the normal/wrapped HFC, to see if that would make much of a difference.
Totally jealous of your $200 Apikol SMIC! I would have much preferred SMIC over FMIC for my car, but I've not seen an upgraded SMIC for less than ~$350 shipped.
To add FMIC to my car cost $240 for CX Racing piping kit (already owned the intercooler), and of course required LOTS of cutting. Things still don't sit 100% right and probably never will with the FMIC.
To be honest I don't see a hot airbox snorkel contributing much to IATs. It pulls in fresh air, and being plastic it will only have a minor impact on the temperature of the air flowing through it.
The turbo will have the greatest effect on IATs of course, hence the need for an intercooler.
I'm curious if you can log before/after IAT temps using the normal/wrapped HFC, to see if that would make much of a difference.
Totally jealous of your $200 Apikol SMIC! I would have much preferred SMIC over FMIC for my car, but I've not seen an upgraded SMIC for less than ~$350 shipped.
To add FMIC to my car cost $240 for CX Racing piping kit (already owned the intercooler), and of course required LOTS of cutting. Things still don't sit 100% right and probably never will with the FMIC.
As far as the snorkel goes I know it probably won't help much, but it's just an idea I had and it looks pretty cool. Once it cured completely it's super tough too. I can flex the plastic a bit at any location and the bedliner coating flexes just like it's part of the plastic. I had a carbonio intake on my MKVI GTI that was completely sealed off from the engine (with a seal at the air inlet in the grill) which gave me the idea to do this. That intake put out better numbers than any other intake in the MKVI, so I thought what the heck, why not. Here is a picture for reference. Although it isn't perfect (I messed it up by turning it over to spray the bottom and it stuck to some cardboard where the plastic flexible channels are).
As far as the wrap goes I will try to get some before and after logs too. I will be installing a new clutch/flywheel, the turbo kit, and a few other goodies all at the same time, so I'm not sure if I will be able to log before/after since I might wrap the cat while it's out for the turbo install. And since I'll be installing the SMIC and the turbo kit, I really can't log before because everything will be so different as far as IAT's go. I don't plan on wrapping the downpipe, just the HFC. Speaking of exhaust I ordered a Techtonics Tuning 2.5" DP which I am going to have welded to my mid-pipe next week along with a magnaflow muffler with dual tips. Looking back I could have bought the 42DD turboback for almost the same price as what I have spent on exhaust (with a military discount), but oh well.
As far as the Apikol goes I spied you possibly picking up that Tyrolsport on Audizine...funny because I thought of buying it and selling the Apikol since I believe the Tyrol is probably a bit better. The Apikol I have has a slight bend on the top of it but definitely doesn't leak. I am very happy with the Apikol for the price I paid for it and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't installed it yet either as I will be doing that, along with everything else (lol) when I have the motor pulled to do the clutch and turbo kit.
Curious to hear if you did pick up that Tyrolsport though!
Hope you did!
Last edited by B5nDisciple; Nov 8, 2014 at 09:04 AM. Reason: grammatical errors
FrankenTurbo
1st Gear
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8
From: Tucson, AZ
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,973
From: Costa Mesa, SoCal
Thanks for the comments, guys
Looking forward to hearing about your results! Also curious to see what your install of WMI system will look like. I would be thrilled to ditch my FMIC and go with stock SMIC, if the system installs easily/cleanly.
Did you know there is a B5 meet/drive this upcoming Sunday? I'm planning to be there...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-16th-November!
https://www.facebook.com/events/3161...ate=3692877293
Cool stuff!
I hear you on the whole "if I bought my exhaust as a kit with the right discounts it would have been cheaper than my current exhaust setup". My exhaust setup definitely cost more than something like the 42DD exhaust.
Was hoping to pick up the Tyrolsport FMIC, was texting the seller back-and-forth, but needed to talk with my wife about it first... somebody used the "Buy it Now" feature before my wife even got off work. Oh well.
Also I'm on the hunt for another air box lid to stuff the 3" MAF housing into. I've been running the 3" MAF housing with a cone filter for a couple weeks now, and although it's just a base file, I like the feel of it better than my multiple-revision tune using stock MAF housing. Just need the air box to quiet down the intake noise, and get back with Dave @ Motoza to see if I can get a fresh base file for 3" MAF housing, and of course multiple revisions.
I bought the Snow Performance Stage 2 WMI kit, and want to run it on MAP instead of MAF (the controller in the kit can be selected for either) instead of installing an fmic right now.
In talking with dave @ Motoza he was saying this should have additional benefits I would not see with just the fmic, for about the same price. He said he has noticed a -20c drop in IAT with the kit, and with 50/50 water/methanol I should be getting 113 octane on 91 pump which will allow him to go from 15 psi, to 20 psi, and it should not pull nearly as much timing as it does now with the higher IAT I have at 15 psi and no fmic.
So, I went to a chemical distributor in Santa Ana (I know you are local to me) and I bought four gallons of 100% technical grade methanol ($54 for case of 4 gals) and Dave sent me a new tune file earlier this week for the WMI.
I am going to install the kit and tune this weekend and hopefully will have some good news to report.
In talking with dave @ Motoza he was saying this should have additional benefits I would not see with just the fmic, for about the same price. He said he has noticed a -20c drop in IAT with the kit, and with 50/50 water/methanol I should be getting 113 octane on 91 pump which will allow him to go from 15 psi, to 20 psi, and it should not pull nearly as much timing as it does now with the higher IAT I have at 15 psi and no fmic.
So, I went to a chemical distributor in Santa Ana (I know you are local to me) and I bought four gallons of 100% technical grade methanol ($54 for case of 4 gals) and Dave sent me a new tune file earlier this week for the WMI.
I am going to install the kit and tune this weekend and hopefully will have some good news to report.
Did you know there is a B5 meet/drive this upcoming Sunday? I'm planning to be there...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-16th-November!
https://www.facebook.com/events/3161...ate=3692877293
Thanks for the detailed reply. I will be modifying my airbox following the suggestions you provided. My F21L kit actually shipped on Friday, and will be here next Thursday
As far as the snorkel goes I know it probably won't help much, but it's just an idea I had and it looks pretty cool. Once it cured completely it's super tough too. I can flex the plastic a bit at any location and the bedliner coating flexes just like it's part of the plastic. I had a carbonio intake on my MKVI GTI that was completely sealed off from the engine (with a seal at the air inlet in the grill) which gave me the idea to do this. That intake put out better numbers than any other intake in the MKVI, so I thought what the heck, why not. Here is a picture for reference. Although it isn't perfect (I messed it up by turning it over to spray the bottom and it stuck to some cardboard where the plastic flexible channels are).
As far as the wrap goes I will try to get some before and after logs too. I will be installing a new clutch/flywheel, the turbo kit, and a few other goodies all at the same time, so I'm not sure if I will be able to log before/after since I might wrap the cat while it's out for the turbo install. And since I'll be installing the SMIC and the turbo kit, I really can't log before because everything will be so different as far as IAT's go. I don't plan on wrapping the downpipe, just the HFC. Speaking of exhaust I ordered a Techtonics Tuning 2.5" DP which I am going to have welded to my mid-pipe next week along with a magnaflow muffler with dual tips. Looking back I could have bought the 42DD turboback for almost the same price as what I have spent on exhaust (with a military discount), but oh well.
As far as the Apikol goes I spied you possibly picking up that Tyrolsport on Audizine...funny because I thought of buying it and selling the Apikol since I believe the Tyrol is probably a bit better. The Apikol I have has a slight bend on the top of it but definitely doesn't leak. I am very happy with the Apikol for the price I paid for it and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't installed it yet either as I will be doing that, along with everything else (lol) when I have the motor pulled to do the clutch and turbo kit.
Curious to hear if you did pick up that Tyrolsport though! Hope you did!
As far as the snorkel goes I know it probably won't help much, but it's just an idea I had and it looks pretty cool. Once it cured completely it's super tough too. I can flex the plastic a bit at any location and the bedliner coating flexes just like it's part of the plastic. I had a carbonio intake on my MKVI GTI that was completely sealed off from the engine (with a seal at the air inlet in the grill) which gave me the idea to do this. That intake put out better numbers than any other intake in the MKVI, so I thought what the heck, why not. Here is a picture for reference. Although it isn't perfect (I messed it up by turning it over to spray the bottom and it stuck to some cardboard where the plastic flexible channels are).
As far as the wrap goes I will try to get some before and after logs too. I will be installing a new clutch/flywheel, the turbo kit, and a few other goodies all at the same time, so I'm not sure if I will be able to log before/after since I might wrap the cat while it's out for the turbo install. And since I'll be installing the SMIC and the turbo kit, I really can't log before because everything will be so different as far as IAT's go. I don't plan on wrapping the downpipe, just the HFC. Speaking of exhaust I ordered a Techtonics Tuning 2.5" DP which I am going to have welded to my mid-pipe next week along with a magnaflow muffler with dual tips. Looking back I could have bought the 42DD turboback for almost the same price as what I have spent on exhaust (with a military discount), but oh well.
As far as the Apikol goes I spied you possibly picking up that Tyrolsport on Audizine...funny because I thought of buying it and selling the Apikol since I believe the Tyrol is probably a bit better. The Apikol I have has a slight bend on the top of it but definitely doesn't leak. I am very happy with the Apikol for the price I paid for it and I'm sure it will perform well. I haven't installed it yet either as I will be doing that, along with everything else (lol) when I have the motor pulled to do the clutch and turbo kit.
Curious to hear if you did pick up that Tyrolsport though!
Hope you did!I hear you on the whole "if I bought my exhaust as a kit with the right discounts it would have been cheaper than my current exhaust setup". My exhaust setup definitely cost more than something like the 42DD exhaust.
Was hoping to pick up the Tyrolsport FMIC, was texting the seller back-and-forth, but needed to talk with my wife about it first... somebody used the "Buy it Now" feature before my wife even got off work. Oh well.
Also I'm on the hunt for another air box lid to stuff the 3" MAF housing into. I've been running the 3" MAF housing with a cone filter for a couple weeks now, and although it's just a base file, I like the feel of it better than my multiple-revision tune using stock MAF housing. Just need the air box to quiet down the intake noise, and get back with Dave @ Motoza to see if I can get a fresh base file for 3" MAF housing, and of course multiple revisions.
1st Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 147
From: Plainfield IL
Installed my frankenturbo yesterday on my 1998 1.8 AEB Quattro 5speed. Installed milltec down pipe, high flow car, forge FMIC, forge DIV, Bosch 440 injectors, 3" MAf , franken exhaust manifold, 3 bar FPR. I have a stock clutch, I have a GIAC pc16 tune from my old KO4 turbo. It is boosted 25 so I need to get it tuned. The exhaust manifold was hard to get the top nuts so I made a wrench. What is the max boost I should be boosting so I don't damage the turbo? What is a good clutch to buy?
Last edited by tatman9999; Jan 10, 2015 at 01:11 PM.
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,973
From: Costa Mesa, SoCal
Good job with modifying a wrench to fit. Those top middle nuts are a pain no doubt.
Max boost should be determined by your tuner... but for FrankenTurbo ~22 psi is usually a good bet.
For clutch, if I were to buy a new one it would be the RA4 kit from ECS Tuning:
Audi B5 A4 Quattro 1.8T Drivetrain Clutch - RA4S1-STEEL - RA4 Conversion Clutch Kit - Stage 1 - ES#5485
Max boost should be determined by your tuner... but for FrankenTurbo ~22 psi is usually a good bet.
For clutch, if I were to buy a new one it would be the RA4 kit from ECS Tuning:
Audi B5 A4 Quattro 1.8T Drivetrain Clutch - RA4S1-STEEL - RA4 Conversion Clutch Kit - Stage 1 - ES#5485