1) You're missing the point. Jews didn't show up in the US as defacto successful whites. In fact you should do some digging on how Jews were treated even here in the US. Many clubs had signs that said "No Jews", not unlike those that said "No Blacks". Jews had much of their wealth (what little of it they originally had in Europe) stripped from them. They came to the US and emmigrated to Israel, and against all odds they rebounded. You make it sound like they just ended up here and everyone said, "oh you're white, welcome to club, here's a check worth a lot of money". You too sound like a smart guy, but maybe you weren't aware, Jews had to climb many hurdles.

2) I think Bill Cosby is one of the great Black leaders today. I am not black so I can't chose who the black leaders are and who is listened to. But I think black americans are starting to understand his point, which is that there is an inherint negative crutch that is put out by those such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. These people do not care about moving forward. They feed off victomhood and it does nothing positive for american blacks. I hope that Bill Cosby's message begins to get more traction because he places more responsibility on the individual than on blaming the "white establishment" for everything that is wrong.

As far as how do people treat me for being Jewish? You are making the same mistake I originally tried to point out. That simply because Jews don't look like minorities, they don't or haven't faced obstacles. The reality and history shows that despite the visual ambiguity, Jews faced bigotry in the US and still do. Jews are still villafied today in the political sphere for backing Israel. How many times have we heard the progressive left accuse Jews of being involved in a "cabal" of sorts to control American interests in the middle east? How about how Jewish college kids are villified on college campases all over the US *today* for their support of Israel?

I think you just haven't looked hard enough and are in a way guilty of what you are acusing ehinelaw of being, a bit ignorant and I don't mean that to be inflamatory.

I am not here to defend ehinelaw's statements. In fact I haven't totaly followed his comments up until now, I simply piped in to comment on your points. I will read back and post what I think. I appreciate though that at least this is an interesting and civil conversation. These can get out of hand but so far we've been able to voice some interesting poitns, even if we disagree.

And even if we can't spell, which I am not able to today. Peace

 

All that has to be done, to cure this defect, it to insert after *(Latinos--at the hands of whites)*; (Jews--also at the hands of whites). I have no problem supplementing that.

But, I will not venture out with you into the land of even suggesting that non-white minorities are persecuted/prosecuted less than Jews. And I don't think you would argue that a Jew, a person that can (more often than a non-white minority) "blend" with the majority, is currently more persecuted/prosecuted than a non-white minority. Another significant difference between Jews and non-white minorities are that Jews have largely been villified for their role in history (see Merchant of Venice for a prime example of typical, historical hatred of Jews based on economic reasons), while non-whites minorities are discriminated against because just that---they aren't white.

Either way, I think we settled most points (agreed on the relative civility)---including ehinelaw's ignorance.

 

fourd's While i really cannot deny what you say or say you are wrong in any way shape or form. Toysnob makes the point that i was going to bring up. If we are to get past the issue we cannot place a central focus upon it. I am in no way saying what happened in the past was right or justified because it wasnt. All of it was wrong and is horrible. But if we focus on what happened in the past as an issue and constantly bring it up, it always will be an issue. Nor should it give any other race "a right" to make jokes about any other race. just because actions happened in the past doesnt give the oppresed the right to give it back in a sense. To chime an old cliche, two wrongs dont make a right. I cant speak of what people have gone through because i havent been there, but im looking to the light at the end of the tunnel and looking what we need to do to achieve that. I think toysnob was completely correct in saying that bill cosby's message is right on the money and people like al sharpton are doing nothing but creating more hate and bring in a more negative attitude. To move on we must not focus on a race or judge by it... I feel that a lot of our society is WAY over protected in the sense we cant make light of certain issues. making a simple statement referring to ones skin color (as long as not a harmful or negative or racist act) shouldnt be such an issue. i dont have a problem wiht anyone of another race making a crack about a white persons stereotypes... i see it as the same thing as making a crack at a short person or someone with big feet.

My last point, sure white people have been oppressing other races in history. but quite honestly youre unfairly pointing the finger. look throughout history, many races have oppressed all other races throughout history. Look at the war upon palestine and israel, or rome early in history, or some of the chinese dynastys that ruled long ago. Again, i dont say its right, but to single out one race isnt any better than things of the past.

 

I never meant to suggest that today Jews face more persecution in the US than other minorities. Here in the US today, despite the thinly veiled anti-Semitism that is found on almost every college campus, Jews have been able to reach a point where whatever bigotry they face has little to no effect on their ability to succeed. However in other parts of the world that is not as true, anti-Semitism is still pretty vibrant in Europe and the Middle East to say the least. But I think we've come to an agreement on this point anyway as far as our country is concerned.

 

well the RS4 turbos from apr should get u close to the real rs4 but u need money to do it

 

i guess "perform like an RS4" is rather subjective. Maybe be as fast in a straight line as an RS4, but don't forget there is a lot more to the new RS4 than the engine. the handling and dynamics are completely different.

i think its somewhat of a fruitless endeavor. maybe a better goal is "can an S4 be made to go faster", and of course the answer to that would be yes.

 

so no way to get that suspension dialed in like an RS-4?

 

theres much more stuff for the rs4 that is different than just suspension. the internals of the engine are completely different..its really a whole new car.

 

Impossible I would think. The differential on the RS4 is hyraulic, the car is wider and lower, etc. Maybe you can definitely improve the S4 handling, but don't think anyone would ever mistake it for an RS4.

 

i want to mak it a sleeper, not a rs-4. I want to pull up next to rs-4 and say bye bye in my rear view mirror!